• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

McWilliams

Senior Veteran
Nov 6, 2005
4,617
567
Texas
✟30,077.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Politics
US-Republican
The Rape of Solomon's Song (Part 2)
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Posted: [/FONT]
(By John MacArthur)
It's frankly hard to think of a more appalling misuse of Scripture than turning the Song of Solomon into soft porn. When people can no longer read that portion of Scripture without pornographic imagery entering their minds, the beauty of the book has been corrupted, its description of righteous love perverted, and its role in sanctifying and elevating the marriage relationship deflected. That preachers would do this in public worship services is unconscionable.
Song of Solomon is deliberately veiled in poetic euphemisms that are beautiful by any measure. Some of the imagery is fairly obvious, some highly debatable. In many places the meaning is indistinct enough to permit a great deal of hermeneutical imagination, and wisdom would seem to teach that here—especially here—it is best for the preacher not to be a lot more explicit than the Holy Spirit was.
And let's face it: overall, the Song is about as far from explicit as the writer can get.
Moreover, since the symbolism is obviously about passion, romance, love, desire, and tenderness, its ambiguity serves a deliberate purpose: it speaks in secret terms about that which should be kept secret. The language is clearly designed to communicate intimate affection privately through veiled, confidential, almost clandestine terms.
This is a vital point: The style of communication between these two lovers beautifully conceals all but the most essential meaning of their love songs in a way that guards the deeply personal (and divinely intended) privacy of the marriage bed.
Song of Solomon is incredibly beautiful precisely because it is so carefully veiled. It is a perfect description of the wonderful, tender, intimate discovery that God designed to take place between a young man and his bride in a place of secrecy. We are not told in vivid terms what all the metaphors mean, because the beauty of marital passion is in the eye of the beholder—where it should stay.
Tom Gledhill wisely sums up this point in his IVP commentary on Song of Solomon (pp. 29-31):
To unpack metaphors and unwrap euphemisms [in Song of Solomon] may mean that our thoughts spiral out of control, and we end up by committing adultery in our imaginations. So if the interpretation of Scripture proves to be a stumbling block, and a cause of offence to some who believe, what then? . . . Once a particular line of interpretation has been suggested, it is difficult to avoid seeing explicit sexual allusions everywhere, until the whole work becomes saturated in references to genitalia, intercourse and explicit sex.
. . . The New Testament answer is very clear and straightforward. Jesus said, 'If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out . . . It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." In other words, we are not to walk into temptation open eyed when we know our particular areas of weakness .
. . . The language we use to describe various parts of the human anatomy (what the Apostle Paul describes as our 'unpresentable parts') is a matter for delicate sensitivity . . . . When [inappropriately explicit] words are used in verbal discourse, a profound disorientation takes place in the hearer, which has a tendency to block off to a large degree any further capacity for rational discussion. They act, so to speak, as verbal hand grenades. Their use is a terrorist activity, causing wanton destruction.
Tremper Longman III says this about preachers and commentators who interpret the Song's poetic imagery in overtly explicit ways: "[Their] free association with the images of the Song is so prevalent that we learn far more about the interpreters than we do about the text" (NICOT, p. 14).
Consider, for instance, the following passage from Song of Solomon 4:12-16. Here Solomon depicts his bride with a complex metaphor employing flowery symbols, and she responds by echoing the imagery:
A garden locked is my sister, my bride,
A rock garden locked, a spring sealed up.
Your shoots are an orchard of pomegranates
With choice fruits, henna with nard plants,
Nard and saffron, calamus and cinnamon,
With all the trees of frankincense,
Myrrh and aloes, along with all the finest spices.
You are a garden spring,
A well of fresh water,
And streams flowing from Lebanon."
Awake, O north wind,
And come, wind of the south;
Make my garden breathe out fragrance,
Let its spices be wafted abroad.
May my beloved come into his garden
And eat its choice fruits!"
Solomon thus describes his bride as a locked, gated garden. To him, she is a pleasant place full of charming fragrances and soothing substances. The word-picture he paints is beautiful on every level. The details ("choice fruits, henna with nard plants, nard and saffron, calamus and cinnamon . . . trees of frankincense, myrrh," etc.) may or may not have specific meanings that would have been known to the bride.
All a careful interpreter can say with certainty is that Solomon finds his bride pleasurable to all his sensory perceptions. He therefore likens her to the most pleasant and beautiful imagery he can think of—ointments and fragrances and visual delights—all concentrated together in one well-cultivated spot. A garden. The garden is "locked," which, again, underscores the intimate privacy of pure marital love. Nothing requires the exegete to take it any further than that. Scripture itself doesn't go further than that.
"It's frank but not crass," Mark Driscoll told a Sunday congregation in Scotland just less than 18 months ago. But then he continued by paraphrasing Solomon in a way that was totally crass and not even remotely close to what the Holy Spirit intended. (A CD copy of that shocking message, entitled Sex: A Study of the Good Bits of Song of Solomon was recently sent to me by some deeply offended and concerned Christians in the UK. It is primarily the reason I'm doing this series.)
In Driscoll's mind, it's not the bride herself who is a garden, but a specific part of her anatomy. As he re-imagines the passage, it is not a poem about the delightful privacy the marriage partners enjoy; it's a sneaky way of openly exposing that intimacy for all to see.
In essence, he treats Song of Solomon like the old urban legend about the lyrics to "Louie, Louie." Only those with the secret knowledge can really understand it; and therefore its true meaning must be something dirty.
That approach caters to prurient ears. It is hard to see it as anything other than sheer exhibitionism. Worst of all, it turns the whole purpose of Song of Solomon on its head.
Tremper Longman was right: eisegesis like that reveals nothing about the book but everything about the interpreter.
 
Upvote 0

desmalia

sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays
Sep 29, 2006
5,786
943
Canada
Visit site
✟26,212.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
MacArthur barely addresses what Driscoll says, and instead uses a Commentary to call Driscoll a Gnostic.

Thats beyond childish.
He's hardly childish. And I didn't see him call Driscoll a Gnostic anywhere there. What he did was address a serious and sensitive issue with caution and grace. If he were to directly quote the same offending statements, he'd be doing no better than Driscoll, even if it's just to refute them. He knows his audience doesn't need to be subjected to that stuff.
 
Reactions: McWilliams
Upvote 0

desmalia

sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays
Sep 29, 2006
5,786
943
Canada
Visit site
✟26,212.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I think that is exactly it. No one is suggesting he's not a believer, or even that he cannot do any good in his ministry. What we are seeing are some serious issues, that I hope and pray he will address and repent of very soon so that he can be a better representative of our Lord.
 
Upvote 0

ReformedChapin

Chapin = Guatemalan
Apr 29, 2005
7,087
357
✟33,338.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
I'm not a big fan of MacArthur or Driscoll. First of all I think dispensationalism is heterodox and unbiblical. Along with that MacArthur has a tendency to run his mouth off we saw that in the Shepherd's Conference. Driscoll has compromised too much for the sake of evangelism. Bot have very little left of historic Calvinism and what great scholars stood for, both on the baptist and reformed side.
 
Upvote 0

AndOne

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men
Apr 20, 2002
7,477
462
Florida
✟28,628.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married

And what is historic Calvinism? If you ask me many a Calvinist compromises evangelism too much for the sake of being "right" about theology.

I'm not saying I agree with everything Driscoll says. But I am saying that the criticism he is receiving here is unfounded and quite frankly not motivated by a Christian heart. That's what bothers me the most. So I come to the guy's defense and what do I get - I get labeled "superfan." Give me a break - such a statement proves my point.
 
Upvote 0

mlqurgw

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2005
5,828
540
70
kain tuck ee
✟8,844.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It is truly a sad day when men become so prominent that they become the center of attention rather than Christ. I care little for either Driscoll or MacAuthor but that doesn't matter. It seems that folks are no different now than they were in Corinth in Paul's day.
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
(1Co 1:10-18)
 
Upvote 0

ReformedChapin

Chapin = Guatemalan
Apr 29, 2005
7,087
357
✟33,338.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Unfounded? Cursing during a sermon? Not having a confession as a standard? What would Machen say? Calvin? Spurgeon?

You stand behind a man who has done something good. So have many arminian pastors but it isn't proper nor biblical.
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Me too - I'm through with suit-and-tie pharisees....

C'mon brother, this is slander and you spoke this in the flesh.

Mark Driscoll should submit to the teaching and authority of men that have walked with the Lord a lifetime, even if Mark feels he is in the right.

He has been addressed both privately and publicly now, and he is offending brothers. The scriptural thing for him to do is humble himself and avoid repeating the offense. If a brother is offending another it doesnt much matter how much the offender thinks or believes he is in the right, he has to humble himself for the sake of his brothers.


I like Mark, I like him alot. God will continue to gather His elect through the preaching and teaching ministry of Mark.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JacobHall86

Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!
Apr 27, 2006
4,005
272
39
ATL
✟28,036.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian

He has not been appraoched privately by MacArthur. Sending emails and letters does not suffice when you are going to call him out from the pulpit.

CJ Mahaney contacted him about his arrogance. Something that Mark has now repented of and is working on. If JMac was serious, he would follow the route that has been proven to work with Driscoll.

Driscoll is under no obligation to submit to JMac, and if JMac thinks that he is he is guilty of arrogance as well.

Should Driscoll tone it down? Maybe.
Is MacArthur wrong in his approach to the situation? Absolutely.
 
Upvote 0

the particular baptist

pactum serva
Nov 14, 2008
1,883
235
Currently reside in Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟18,268.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Is MacArthur wrong in his approach to the situation? Absolutely.

Personally i thought Johnson was wrong to make a headline out of Mark. Errors and heresies abound these days and the pickings are in buffet style, to have gone after an in-house preacher like Mark publicly...i dont know. I have expressed my reservations to friends on the public way this has been handled and if it were up to me there would have been office sit-ins, mentoring, and prayer first. Then if Mark did not address the offense go to the church at large.

Still, and maybe i am old fashioned, the biblical principles are there for Mark to give way to men older in the faith, and accept instruction, even if perhaps it wasnt handled in the best of ways.
 
Upvote 0

JacobHall86

Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!
Apr 27, 2006
4,005
272
39
ATL
✟28,036.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian


I agree, if he has done something wrong he should submit to older men in the faith. But he has that at Mars Hill. JMac doesn't fit the category because he does not personally know Driscoll. He is in no position to speak truth into his life because he does not know him.
 
Upvote 0

McWilliams

Senior Veteran
Nov 6, 2005
4,617
567
Texas
✟30,077.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Politics
US-Republican
The Rape of Solomon's Song (Part 3)
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Posted: [/FONT]
(By John MacArthur)
I emphatically agree with those who say the Song of Solomon is not mere allegory. It is best understood when we take it at face value, like any other text of Scripture. Many interpreters whom I otherwise hold in high esteem (including Spurgeon and most of the Puritans) have unfortunately done more to confuse than clarify the Song's message by treating it in a purely allegorical fashion that eliminates its primary meaning.
Solomon's Song is, as I've said from the outset, a love poem between Solomon and his bride, celebrating their mutual love for one another, including the delights of the marriage bed. To interpret this—or any other portion of Scripture—in a purely allegorical fashion is to treat the interpreter's own imagination as more authoritative than the plain meaning of the text.
However, those who pretend to know the meanings of poetic symbols that are not clearly identifiable from the text itself commit the very same error. Their speculation is likewise a way of exalting their own imaginations to a higher level of authority than the plain sense of the text.
That's a particular problem when the interpreter sees a mandate for oral sex in the simple metaphor of a fruit tree or imagines that the best way to contextualize and illustrate portions of the text is by verbally undressing his own wife in order to make the point as vivid as possible. In such a case, not only has the speaker given far too much weight to his own speculative imagination; he has given a fairly clear signal that his imagination is not altogether pure (Luke 6:45).
And that is a far more serious problem than merely allegorizing the text.
By no means do I want to minimize the dangers of allegorizing the text. That approach to hermeneutics is full of mischief, even in the hands of pure-minded men who are generally sound in their doctrine. I don't approve of allegorical flights of fancy, especially with a text like Song of Solomon, which poses enough difficulties with the obvious built-in metaphors and poetic language it features.
Allegorizers of the Song of Solomon generally see it as an expression of tender mutual love between Christ and His church. Most of them would say that Christ is represented by the voice of Solomon; the church is represented by the voice of the Shulamite. Some interpreters go further yet and imagine they hear three or more voices speaking out of the text. (Invariably those who multiply the voices try to make the verses fit some complex libretto that arises more out of their own personal agenda than from the text itself.)
Still, regardless of how many voices are heard and who is supposedly speaking, nearly all who allegorize this poem see it as a canticle of love between Christ and the church. It's probably fair to say that this allegorical view focusing on Christ and the church has been the dominant interpretation of the poem throughout church history.
That, of course, doesn't make it right. I happen to think it is not the correct approach to interpreting this text. But it's not a view that ought to be dismissed with vulgar contempt—especially with a coarse joke attributing homosexual behavior to Christ.
If you have heard any of Mark Driscoll's teaching on the Song of Solomon, you have surely heard his joke in that vein. For example, in the sermon that prompted me to write these articles, Driscoll says, "Some have allegorized this book, and in so doing, they have destroyed it. They have destroyed it. They will say that it is an allegory between Jesus and his bride the church. Which if true, is weird. Because Jesus is having sex with me and puts his hand up my shirt. And that feels weird. I love Jesus, but not in that way."
Driscoll has said almost the exact same thing in at least three other sermons. For example: “Jesus keeps making out with me and touching me in inappropriate places.” “Now I’m gay, or highly troubled, or both.” “As a guy, I do not feel comfortable with Jesus, like you know, kissing me and touching me and taking me to bed. Okay? I feel sort of very homo-erotic about that kind of view of Song of Solomon.”
Even in his most recent Peasant Princess series, he repeats a version of that very same joke:
Now what happens is some say "Well, we do believe in the book [of Song of Solomon], and we will teach it, but we're gonna teach it allegorically." And there's a literal and an allegorical interpretation. They'll say, "Well the allegorical interpretation, it's not between a husband and a wife, Song of Solomon, love and romance and intimacy; what it is, it's about us and Jesus." Really? I hope not. [Laughter from crowd] If I get to heaven and this goes down, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I mean it's gonna be a bad day. Right? I mean seriously. You dudes know what I'm talking about. You're like, "No, I'm not doing that. You know I'm not doing that. I love Him [Jesus] but not like that." [Laughter from crowd]
Driscoll blew off criticism about that kind of joking by claiming it's not blasphemy because it has nothing to do with the "real" Jesus. He says he is simply making fun of a false notion about Jesus. And he continues making the joke.Here's the problem with that: Scripture clearly teaches that the love between a husband and wife in all its aspects is a metaphor for Christ and the Church (Ephesians 5:31-32).
Thus even a non-allegorical interpretation of Song of Solomon, (simply taking the love-song between Solomon and the Shulamite at face value) ultimately points us to Christ and his love for the church. The text ought to be handled by the preacher accordingly, not as an excuse to bathe in the gutter of our culture's easygoing obsession with crude sex-talk and graphic sexual imagery.
Some who have commented on these articles have suggested that I ought to give a full exposition of Solomon's Song rather than merely critiquing the bad interpreters and decrying the contemporary church's fixation with sex.
That would require a long series, and I'd prefer not to devote weeks of time on this blog to a topic that I have raised only in order to make a simple, single-pointed admonition. But those wondering what my exposition of Solomon's Song would be like will find full notes on the text in The MacArthur Study Bible.
Those notes should be a sufficient answer to the commenter who pretended to wonder if I am saying it would be better not to comment on Song of Solomon at all.
Of course that is not what I am saying, nor can anyone claim that I have even implied anything of the sort—without twisting my words or putting their words in my mouth. (That literally happened in a string of comments at another blog where this issue was under discussion. An early commenter accused me of opposing line-by-line exposition of the Song. Halfway down the comments, people were putting that claim in quotation marks, attributing it to me.)
What I am saying is that the bounds of propriety—especially when dealing with subjects like sex—should be set by whatever text we are dealing with. To interpret beautiful poetry by translating it into scurrilous soft-porn is to corrupt the most fundamental intent of the text.
This is nowhere near as difficult to grasp as some are pretending, but perhaps a simple parallel will suffice: There are other private body functions and "less honorable" or "unpresentable" body parts (1 Corinthians 12:23). We find these mentioned or alluded to at times in Scripture without ever being too specific. We all would be rightly offended if the preacher gave a long, descriptive discourse or how-to instructions in the Sunday worship service, outlining these "unpresentable" things.
For stronger reasons than simple modesty, certain acts involving fornication, autoeroticism, and other things people commonly "do in secret" are shameful to talk about in any public context (Ephesians 5:12), much less a church service. They may be suitable subjects for a private counseling session, or the doctor's office, or a college biology lecture, but they are not fitting topics for a worship service where God should be glorified, Christ should be uplifted, women should be shown respect, children's innocence should be guarded, and single people's prurient curiosities should not unnecessarily be enflamed.
When a speaker deliberately arouses lusts that cannot possibly be righteously fulfilled in unmarried college students, or when his personal illustrations fail to guard the privacy and honor of his own wife, that is far worse than merely inappropriate. When done repeatedly and with the demeanor of an immature bad-boy, such a practice reflects a major character defect that is spiritually disqualifying. Any man who makes such things the main trademark of his style is quite simply not above reproach.
As recently as a decade ago, that point of view would not have raised a peep of controversy.
The fact that it is so controversial now is simply more proof that evangelicals have become too much like the world, and too comfortable with the evil characteristics of our culture.
Tomorrow, Lord willing, I'll post the final installment in this series. Several questions have come up repeatedly from people who have commented on these articles, and in tomorrow's final installment, I want to answer as many of them as possible.
 
Upvote 0

JacobHall86

Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!
Apr 27, 2006
4,005
272
39
ATL
✟28,036.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I like how in the comments, especially on the third installment, it seems that 3/4 of the people are questioning JMacs motives for this. I especially appreciate Todd Burus and his statements on the fourth, essentially saying that JMac has ignored anything done by Driscoll in the past two years and seems to focus solely on Driscolls older things, That he has REPENTED of and taken down from the website.

MacArthur should be ashamed of himself.
 
Reactions: student ad x
Upvote 0