Mariology

[HisBelovedMelody]

my question about arrogance was directed to Simonthezealot.

please quote my post that demonstrates my arrogance.

buddy, friend...please. There are many, but hey..if you can't see them...that is ok. Let me assure you, many of the Catholics here speak that way.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

actually, let me clarify something...I have met maybe...say 5 or 6 catholics on these vast forum threads that are WONDERFUL people...and speak to me as a sister in the Lord and not dirt beneath their feet...so, NOT all Catholics walk in pride and arrogance...in fact, I am friends with a few of them. See, if you treat me with the respect that you guys want..I can be a friendly sort. That being said...I have had quite the talks with the Lord today, and He told me to just LOVE. Love all of ya's no matter how you treat me....so....(((HUGS))) and love to ya'll!!

 

[racer]

well

1. History... the CC has been here for over 2000 years

2. Apostolic Succesion.. It has actual historical ties with the apostles and thus with Christ/God..

3. It went through the persecution described in Revelation when Rome went to war with the saints

4. The amount of works.. Tons of writings and great thinkers like St. Augustine and St. Aquinas.. The church has been through every possible question and answer that has been thrown at it.

5. Miracles.. The great happening at Holy Fatima and the great amount of miracles that happened in Catholic Church members(st. Padre Pio) . This shows where the holy spirit is dwelling and where the signes are comming from..

6. Universal.. Everyone in the world knows about being a Catholic.. But when have you thought of asking a monk in some tibetian tribe in the middle of nowhere to become a southern baptist?? In fact most of the newer protestant denominations like pentacoastalism are soley in the US, they are not universal like the CC is. Protestantism is more Regional while Catholicism is more universal..

7. Matthew 16

Sorry, but this isn't what I asked . . . . . why do you think you have the intelligence to determine what is right, and distrust the ability of those who disagree with to determine what is right? We have access to the same information, and still believe contrary to what you believe.

The fact is your beliefs are as subject as the next person. What you now believe is based upon what you deem most believable.

 

[jckstraw72]

buddy, friend...please. There are many, but hey..if you can't see them...that is ok. Let me assure you, many of the Catholics here speak that way.

1. im not Catholic
2. trusting the Church is not arrogance. an atheist might think you are arrogant because you claim to know which God is real and all that stuff, but you know that your faith is in God, and not any arrogance on your own part, and so when I place my faith in Christ and His Body that is not arrogance, because I am letting go of my own opinions and placing faith in God.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

1. im not Catholic
2. trusting the Church is not arrogance. an atheist might think you are arrogant because you claim to know which God is real and all that stuff, but you know that your faith is in God, and not any arrogance on your own part, and so when I place my faith in Christ and His Body that is not arrogance, because I am letting go of my own opinions and placing faith in God.

catholic/eo...same principal applies...sorry..if by church you mean the body of the Lord Jesus Christ and not your denomination...we could probably agree then. I have NO faith in any denomination,

 

[repentant]

I am glad my faith isn't in a church building, but IN JESUS CHRIST! He is the author and finisher of my faith..not 'church', mans teachings or anything like that,

Hey, we actually agree on something. Except the fact that the Church is Christ..

 

[repentant]

So what makes the Catholic and Orthodox (lay people in general) more knowledgeable than the rest of Christianity?

Because the lay people didn't follow their own interpretations and beliefs, but followed the teachings of the Apostles, held onto and protected by the Church..

 

[repentant]

If you mean your denomination...no. If you mean the BODY of ALL christians...that is different..

So which Body to you trust?

 

[IamAdopted]

Hey, we actually agree on something. Except the fact that the Church is Christ..

Can you explain what you mean here?

 

[repentant]

Can you explain what you mean here?

Which part? That I actually partly agreed with her, or that the Church is Christ?

If it's the latter, than that would explain alot..

 

[Ahazmat]

Listen, don't tell us what Catholics do and don't do. Your not even a Catholic..Catholics don't worship Mary.. don't put words in peoples mouths.. If that was the case then honoring your mother or father after they died would be idolism too..

So when I went Knock in Ireland and they had that giant statue of Mary in the foreground followed by other figures on the alter, that was not an example of holding her out to be worshiped? You may not know it but the Idolators do not say they are worshiping the actual statue but rather the force, entity, or meaning behind it. I leave it to your own conscience.

 

[Ahazmat]

well

1. History... the CC has been here for over 2000 years

2. Apostolic Succesion.. It has actual historical ties with the apostles and thus with Christ/God..

3. It went through the persecution described in Revelation when Rome went to war with the saints

4. The amount of works.. Tons of writings and great thinkers like St. Augustine and St. Aquinas.. The church has been through every possible question and answer that has been thrown at it.

5. Miracles.. The great happening at Holy Fatima and the great amount of miracles that happened in Catholic Church members(st. Padre Pio) . This shows where the holy spirit is dwelling and where the signes are comming from..

6. Universal.. Everyone in the world knows about being a Catholic.. But when have you thought of asking a monk in some tibetian tribe in the middle of nowhere to become a southern baptist?? In fact most of the newer protestant denominations like pentacoastalism are soley in the US, they are not universal like the CC is. Protestantism is more Regional while Catholicism is more universal..

7. Matthew 16

umm actually, having so many people applying their thoughts and legalisms to the basic teachings gives all religions less credibility as being true to the originators words. Hmm come to think of it the Muslims sort of found a way around that problem, but it did not last.

 

[Ahazmat]

actually, let me clarify something...I have met maybe...say 5 or 6 catholics on these vast forum threads that are WONDERFUL people...and speak to me as a sister in the Lord and not dirt beneath their feet...so, NOT all Catholics walk in pride and arrogance...in fact, I am friends with a few of them. See, if you treat me with the respect that you guys want..I can be a friendly sort. That being said...I have had quite the talks with the Lord today, and He told me to just LOVE. Love all of ya's no matter how you treat me....so....(((HUGS))) and love to ya'll!!

Everyone should observe closest conformity with God; you must show every consideration for one another, never letting your attitude to a neighbour be affected by your human feelings, but simply loving each other consistently in the spirit of Jesus Christ.
(Ignatius of Antioch, The Epistle to the Magnesians, 6)
​

 

[racer]

Because the lay people didn't follow their own interpretations and beliefs, but followed the teachings of the Apostles, held onto and protected by the Church..

Yes, they do. The only difference their own interpretations and beliefs are that their safest bet is to follow the teachings of their Church.

 

[IamAdopted]

Which part? That I actually partly agreed with her, or that the Church is Christ?

If it's the latter, than that would explain alot..

The Part of where you stated that the church is Christ? I didn't want to assume anything. I just wanted you to explain what you actually mean by this.

 

[Angeldove97]

So when I went Knock in Ireland and they had that giant statue of Mary in the foreground followed by other figures on the alter, that was not an example of holding her out to be worshiped? You may not know it but the Idolators do not say they are worshiping the actual statue but rather the force, entity, or meaning behind it. I leave it to your own conscience.

I know you did not point this particular post out at me, but I thought I'd comment. I do not worship Mary, but I do enjoy her presence. I do enjoy remembering what she did while Jesus was on earth. She is an inspiration and I enjoy seeing her statues as a reminder of this.

But you are right, those who actually worship her will have it on their conscience. I just know I'm not one of them.

 

[Kepha]

Yes, they do. The only difference their own interpretations and beliefs are that their safest bet is to follow the teachings of their Church.

We don't create Dogma out of the Bible first and foremorst but follow the two Traditions of which the Gospel was passed. We don't take a verse and say "Yes, that is what it means so that is how it should be when it comes to important Doctrine. Adventists do this with their Sabbath. They sprung up with this doctrine from reading their Bibles.
It's like many protestants. You misquote one important verse of the Bible such as that it tells you that the Bible is your sole rule of faith, then your entire interpretive skills are based on that one assumption and can throw you off the actual truth big time. So your safest bet is to follow your first conclusion and go in that direction.

 

[IamAdopted]

We don't create Dogma out of the Bible first and foremorst but follow the two Traditions of which the Gospel was passed. We don't take a verse and say "Yes, that is what it means so that is how it should be when it comes to important Doctrine. Adventists do this with their Sabbath. They sprung up with this doctrine from reading their Bibles.
It's like many protestants. You misquote one important verse of the Bible such as that it tells you that the Bible is your sole rule of faith, then your entire interpretive skills are based on that one assumption and can throw you off the actual truth big time. So your safest bet is to follow your first conclusion and go in that direction.

We take Gods word as it is written as truth and nothing but the truth. For God sent His word. We have those who testify to Gods written word. We see Christ was written about in the OT years before He came. This proves to me that Gods written word is truth. We see Jesus will come again. This is truth nothing but the truth. He will be looking for those who have worshipped Him in Spirit and in truth. Jesus said the words that I speak to you are Spirit and life to those who find them. We also see Jesus praying the Father sanctify us in truth. Then He goes on to say Your word is truth. So if we are to worship God in Spirit and in truth what does God say these are?

 

[Kepha]

We take Gods word as it is written as truth and nothing but the truth.

We take God's properly understood Word as the Written Truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[jckstraw72]

more importantly than sending His word, God sent His Word -- and the Word cannot be contained within a book.