Mariology

[IamAdopted]

You know nothing about what the Catholic Church teaches and believes. I'm sorry IAA, I have no idea why it is you will not listen to us and turn around and slander the heck out of us.

It' very disheartening to see this especially knowing how this hurts Jesus deeply.

I have, in depth spent my own time and effort breaking down and explaining to you what Peter is to the Church.

I in know way said anything that would ever lead you to assume we think he is our savior.

That is absurd and ridiculous and frankly just mean spirited that you would twist everything I, we say in the way that you do.

You hand us false premise after false premise, you hand us strawman after strawman, you hand us logical fallacy after logical fallacy and there is just no end in sight.

You get up on you pulpit and preach things that are totally irrelevant half the time and you in no way are interested in the slightest on even getting our belief and practices right.

One can only ask themselves why why is this person so bent on not understanding us properly?

I know why you do it and it's for a few reasons and I can not say what I think because of theses forum rules but I'm having enough. I really am.

I pray, seriously that God will touch you and you really stop all this because it is way out of hand.

LORD... have mercy.

Why is it when I question why Jesus would build His church on Peter do you say I am being mean spirited? I asked a simple question. Is it not what Peter said that saves people? Is this not what Christ church is built on? That He alone is the Messiah the Christ? That in believing this mankind is saved and God adds them to His church. I never said that you believe Peter to be your saviour. I said Peter cannot save so why would God build His church upon someone that has no saving Power? These are questions I have. This is where I get confused with your beliefs. Can I have a honost answer to these? One that makes sense to me? Peter was an Apostle. He preached Christ and Him crucified. Paul was an Apostle and He preached Christ and Him Crucified. James preached Christ. John preached Christ and Him cruicifed also. They all preached the same thing. Now we come along and the next thing we know we are being preached to that Peter is the rock that Jesus built His church on. Mary is now queen of Heaven, Jesus came to be man that we may be gods. Confusing to say the least. So with this I have questions. would you not have them being in my postition? I am told that I cannot read scripture and understand scripture unless the church tells me what the scriptures are suppose to mean. I am told that you have to have the church and Mary for salvation now instead of Christ alone. And you say I am misrepresenting what you say. It is all over these boards and I want answers to what you say is truth.

 

[simonthezealot]

Why is it when I question why Jesus would build His church on Peter do you say I am being mean spirited? .

I.AM's don't you know that is our intrinsic nature??
V

 

[IamAdopted]

Because you lie about us. We think Peter saves us? Where do you come up with this stuff? You need to be ashamed, really and the fact that you aren't is scary.

Your lying right now. I never said I cared about you questing anything. Your game is to twist and distort and then play innocent.

I could care less what you question and what your belief is, I really could less that you believe in what ever it is that you do.

You have no right to misrepresent our beliefs and twist our words.

That is mean spirited and I hope God can help you come to see this is what you do. No Christian acts like that.

Now who said you believe that Peter saves you? Not me. I said what I said. Now if you want to twist this so it sounds as if I said you believe this then that is you doing the twisting. I asked a perfectly good question. Why would God build a church on a man that has no saving Power. But yet the words that Peter spoke can save a person. For this is where salvation comes is through Christ being the Messiah and the Christ. And in believing on Christ man can be saved. If you do not have an answer to this then by all means all you have to say is I don't know instead of saying I said that you believe Peter to be your savior. I asked a question. To yet I have had no answer only accusation against me. It is a simple question I have and where the belief of the CC confuses me. I believe it was the words of Peter that Jesus builds His church on and some believe it is Peter. This is why I am asking this question.

 

[icedtea]

You have reduced her down to what you want her to be.

You have elevated her too high.

There is no one, O most Holy Mary who can be saved but through thee-St. Germanus

No one can enter the blessed kingdom of Heaven without passing through Mary-The Glories of Mary by Alphonsus de Liguori

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I can make the same claim. if you listen to him, He would show you the Catholic Church is true.

This is my point, anyone can read the bible, interpret it and say, "I'm right because I'm Holy Spirit led."

bene, I had such a profound experience this morning in church with the Lord. I am not going to argue which 'church'/denomination or whatever is right wrong or otherwise any more. I have my reasons why I won't convert to catholocism...but I am not going to go there any more. It isn't about that..it is about Jesus and Him crucified. Nothing else matters. So, I pray God's richest blessing on you Bene and I pray He is magnified in you. He loves you and so do I.

 

[IamAdopted]

Okay then if I am lying then I apologize but this is what has been said to me. I have been told these very words by some on these forums. Maybe not by you. But they have been said to me. I have been told some things that blow my mind away. So when I ask about them or state them again then I am being mean spirited? I don't get it I really don't.

 

[Tonks]

This thread is being closed for the time being as staff discusses when (and if) it will be reopened. Back on post 24 I asked folks to play nice.

Staff Protocol for closing threads can be found here at point 15. My inbox is open for questions but review points B & C at the above link.

 

[Tonks]

This thread is reopened.

 

[simonthezealot]

Because this is what your fundamentalist tradition of men has taught you.

fundamentalism tells you it's wrong and for some reason... you believe it.

The bible tells us it's wrong and for good reason we believe it.

 

[Ahazmat]

why do fundamentalist have such an issue with the whole Mariology?
Looking for Catholics and Orth. to weigh in

I don't know why. Dianna is a wonderful Goddess.

 

[Ahazmat]

You go and sit in church and/or bible study and someone opens the bible and begins preaching how Marian devotion is wrong.

Tell me that's never happened? I've been to a few Protestant gatherings where this has happened.

Praying to anyone or anything other that YHVH, the God of Israel, is forbidden in the first commandment.
So giving adoration to Mary, be she alive in heaven (if that is being alive) or dead and feeding the worms is contrary to the Command of the God I worship.

 

[Renton405]

why do fundamentalist have such an issue with the whole Mariology?
Looking for Catholics and Orth. to weigh in

Becuase they follow the Luther error..

Because they think they know all there is to know about the bible..

because they haven't read up on the true history of the church

because they think catholics worship Mary , which they don't

Because of pride and hatred of the Catholic Church(maybe due to a bad expereince with a Catholic or the church, or their parents being Catholic and them rebelling)

 

[Renton405]

Sure you do!
Its not any different than the festival to the Jehovah written about in Exodus 32:4-5
Or 1 kings 12:28 in regards to Idolatry/Idol worship...

honor due our Triune God, given to His creatures or an invention of His creatures instead.

Listen, don't tell us what Catholics do and don't do. Your not even a Catholic..Catholics don't worship Mary.. don't put words in peoples mouths.. If that was the case then honoring your mother or father after they died would be idolism too..

 

[jckstraw72]

Sure you do!
Its not any different than the festival to the Jehovah written about in Exodus 32:4-5
Or 1 kings 12:28 in regards to Idolatry/Idol worship...

honor due our Triune God, given to His creatures or an invention of His creatures instead.

do you try to be offensive and arrogant?

 

[racer]

Becuase they follow the Luther Heresy..

Because they think they know all there is to know about the bible..

because they haven't read up on the true history of the church

because they think catholics worship Mary , which they don't

Because of pride and hatred of the Catholic Church(maybe due to a bad expereince with a Catholic or the church, or their parents being Catholic and them rebelling)

So what makes the Catholic and Orthodox (lay people in general) more knowledgeable than the rest of Christianity?

 

[Renton405]

So what makes the Catholic and Orthodox (lay people in general) more knowledgeable than the rest of Christianity?

well

1. History... the CC has been here for over 2000 years

2. Apostolic Succesion.. It has actual historical ties with the apostles and thus with Christ/God..

3. It went through the persecution described in Revelation when Rome went to war with the saints

4. The amount of works.. Tons of writings and great thinkers like St. Augustine and St. Aquinas.. The church has been through every possible question and answer that has been thrown at it.

5. Miracles.. The great happening at Holy Fatima and the great amount of miracles that happened in Catholic Church members(st. Padre Pio) . This shows where the holy spirit is dwelling and where the signes are comming from..

6. Universal.. Everyone in the world knows about being a Catholic.. But when have you thought of asking a monk in some tibetian tribe in the middle of nowhere to become a southern baptist?? In fact most of the newer protestant denominations like pentacoastalism are soley in the US, they are not universal like the CC is. Protestantism is more Regional while Catholicism is more universal..

7. Matthew 16

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I am glad my faith isn't in a church building, but IN JESUS CHRIST! He is the author and finisher of my faith..not 'church', mans teachings or anything like that,

 

[jckstraw72]

I am glad my faith isn't in a church building, but IN JESUS CHRIST! He is the author and finisher of my faith..not 'church', mans teachings or anything like that,

so you're glad that you dont trust the Body of Christ, of which Christ is the head? Im certainly going to trust ANYTHING that Christ is at the head of.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

do you try to be offensive and arrogant?

I am sure not any more than other catholics on here! Pot...meet kettle....

If you mean your denomination...no. If you mean the BODY of ALL christians...that is different..

 

[jckstraw72]

I am sure not any more than other catholics on here! Pot...meet kettle....

my question about arrogance was directed to Simonthezealot.

please quote my post that demonstrates my arrogance.