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Marijuana Laws

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Marissa

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Legality: I don't get why it's illegal. Is it good for you? I don't believe so. Then again, nor is smoking. Is keeping it illegal an effective method of controlling drug abuse? It doesn't appear to be. If we legalise drugs we can put controls in place much like we do with food and medicines. Rather than spending millions of dollars on fighting an unwinnable battle.

Morally: Don't agree with it. I consider it witchcraft. Not good, especially for a christian.
 
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ian90

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Genesis 1:29 MKJV
And God said, Behold! I have given you every herb seeding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree seeding seed; to you it shall be for food.

Cannabis is tasty in spagghetti bolognese!

Cigs and alcohol are far worse (TetraHydraCannibinol is not addictive and you cannot OD on it) but worse substances are morally acceptable. Any argument about it not being good for you is refuted because alcohol is worse and that is Biblically acceptable ... I have this discussion with my 'heathen' mates all the time. I will not feed organised crime, so there's no way I will condone it or buy it, but if I lived in Amsterdam then my moral argument is destroyed. If the Bible doesn't explcitiy condemn it and society finds it morally acceptable, then what is the problem?


1 Corinthians 6:12 MKJV
All things are lawful to me, but not all things profit. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.


Paul said here that if something was technically legal doesn't mean it is right. Even if I lived in a society were cannabis was legal I wold turn to my 'heathen' mates and say I don't want it and I don't need it. My joy is complete in Jesus, sobierty is the best state I could be in. If it doesn't bring me closer to God, then I'm not interested. Hopefully that would make them think!

Getting closer to God
Evangelism

That's what is important and takes priority for me on the details of my faith.
 
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neverforsaken

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invisible trousers said:
I'm curious, how could consuming a plant made by God be considered witchcraft?

i believe it has to do with the intent of purpose. by that logic, i could justify shooting people because metal was made by God and therefore meant to be used. using what God gave us is good, but when we turn its good benifits into harmful devices, we insult Gods original design.
 
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Shizzle

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I'm curious, how could consuming a plant made by God be considered witchcraft?
well ur not excactly consuming it, but consuming the afteraffect of burning it

Cigs and alcohol are far worse but worse substances are morally acceptable. Any argument about it not being good for you is refuted because alcohol is worse and that is Biblically acceptable ...
alchohol is only bad for you in large doses though, light drinking is good..

If the Bible doesn't explcitiy condemn it and society finds it morally acceptable, then what is the problem?
why would societys view have any affect on it

Morally: Don't agree with it. I consider it witchcraft. Not good, especially for a christian.
why, for something to be witchcraft, doesnt it need to involve demons

1. do you know how cannabinoids affect the brain?
no, i read it somewhere but it doesnt matter, studies and tests arent needed to come to a conclusion unless you dont have friends who do marijuana, and if you dont then how would you get it.

2. do you have sources for anything you've said?
no, but neither do we when we testify about the lord. I have many friends who regret ever using marijuana. Once youve used it, you know what it feels like and can never take that knowledge away.

the wine was sacrimental wine. which is traditionally made of one part wine and two parts water. in that way it has less alchohol than cough syrup.
no.. go to the alchohol discussion thread, were not talking about sacrimental wine, it talks about wine in other parts of the bible also.
 
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neverforsaken

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no.. go to the alchohol discussion thread, were not talking about sacrimental wine, it talks about wine in other parts of the bible also.

no, the wine WAS sacrimental. It is jewish custom to drink only sacrimental wine for special occasions. the wine at the wedding was sacrimental wine and the wine at the last supper was sacrimental as well. Its all about cultural misunderstandings.
 
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invisible trousers

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i believe it has to do with the intent of purpose. by that logic, i could justify shooting people because metal was made by God and therefore meant to be used. using what God gave us is good, but when we turn its good benifits into harmful devices, we insult Gods original design.
Killing my neighbor is as bad as taking hits from a bong? Please. Your analogy is so off it's not even close to being applicable to this situation.


Shizzle said:
well ur not excactly consuming it, but consuming the afteraffect of burning it
You can also get high from eating marijuana. How could consuming a plant GOD CREATED be witchcraft?


no, i read it somewhere but it doesnt matter, studies and tests arent needed to come to a conclusion unless you dont have friends who do marijuana, and if you dont then how would you get it.
You shouldn't be making claims that you can't prove.

I've probably smoked more weed than all your friends combined, so I might know what I'm talking about.
no, but neither do we when we testify about the lord. I have many friends who regret ever using marijuana. Once youve used it, you know what it feels like and can never take that knowledge away.

I'm sorry your friends don't have self-control. Not everyone who smokes weed becomes a stereotypical pothead, much like how not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes a raging alcoholic.
 
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MookHustle

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ian90 said:
If it doesn't bring me closer to God, then I'm not interested. Hopefully that would make them think!

Getting closer to God
Evangelism

That's what is important and takes priority for me on the details of my faith.

Some people say that the experience actually brings them closer to GOD. But I have also heard people who hang from hooks say the same, and heard people say that when they get a tattoo the pain helps them better connect with GOD.
 
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Marissa

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Shizzle said:
why, for something to be witchcraft, doesnt it need to involve demons

Does reading the horoscopes directly involve demons?

invisible trousers said:
You can also get high from eating marijuana. How could consuming a plant GOD CREATED be witchcraft?

By that logic Adam didn't sin by eatting the fruit, because God created the tree and it's fruit. Just because God created it doesn't mean that it is fit for our consumption, or that it can't be a means of sin.

Marijuana plays with the mind. It's a mind altering drug. Just as much as hypnosis is mind altering. It changes a persons view of reality and their behaviour. It's giving control up. If you're not given control to God, or to another person, who are you giving it to? I'm not suggesting everytime someone uses mind altering drugs they become demon possessed, however they are giving some control to the enemy and trusting them over God.

I consider it witchcraft.

A piece of trivia:

Galations 5:19-21

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

"Sorcery" used in Galations 5:20 is from the greek work pharmakia. It's the word we get pharmacy from. It refers to the illicit use of drugs and the use of drugs to cast spells in witchcraft.

Or so I'm told. It's isn't why I consider marijuana witchcraft so I haven't looked into it too closely, but it does back it up.
 
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neverforsaken

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You shouldn't be making claims that you can't prove.
unfortunately i dont remember the name of the special i saw on the history channel. but it specifically said that according to jewish tradition, sacrimental wine was used which was one part wine and two parts water.

And my analogy is quite the same when you consider than poisoning your body is a sin, and so is murder. and sin is sin no matter the severity. so yes, killing someone is just as bad as taking a hit from a bong in Gods eyes.
 
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invisible trousers

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neverforsaken said:
And my analogy is quite the same when you consider than poisoning your body is a sin, and so is murder. and sin is sin no matter the severity. so yes, killing someone is just as bad as taking a hit from a bong in Gods eyes.

Poisoning? Do you know how cannabinoids work? They're not poisonous at all. You still haven't show how smoking the devil's weed is as bad as killing someone. When I kill someone, they die. When I smoke, you get offended. Slight difference there.


Marissa said:
Does reading the horoscopes directly involve demons?
Horoscopes is making up stupid stuff that isn't really christian; consuming marijuana is eating a plant made by God.

By that logic Adam didn't sin by eatting the fruit, because God created the tree and it's fruit. Just because God created it doesn't mean that it is fit for our consumption, or that it can't be a means of sin.
But you can't compare the devil's weed to the forbidden tree. They aren't similar in any way.
Marijuana plays with the mind. It's a mind altering drug. Just as much as hypnosis is mind altering. It changes a persons view of reality and their behaviour. It's giving control up. If you're not given control to God, or to another person, who are you giving it to? I'm not suggesting everytime someone uses mind altering drugs they become demon possessed, however they are giving some control to the enemy and trusting them over God.

I consider it witchcraft.
No scriptural justification. Besides, you've never smoked weed, have you? I don't think you can provide a valid opinion on something you have no experience with.

Well, this is kind of moot I guess. None of the religious arguments should have a legal bearing on the discussion of it being legalized. The war on drugs is a colossal failure, a waste of money, and hasn't shown to work at all. Imprisoning people convicted of mere drug possession hasn't shown to affect usage rates a single bit.
 
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neverforsaken

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Poisoning? Do you know how cannabinoids work? They're not poisonous at all. You still haven't show how smoking the devil's weed is as bad as killing someone. When I kill someone, they die. When I smoke, you get offended. Slight difference there.

no difference in GOD'S eyes. when you use cannabis you damage your body. you limit your functions in the name of feeling good. the whole purpose of smoking weed is to feel high is it not? You open yourself to addiction, and any addiction is wrong.
 
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holo

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I've smoked my share of grass, but I still don't know what to think of legalization.

I don't listen to the typical pothead propaganda any more than that from the govt., they're both far off. No, it will not make you shoot heroin, but yes, it is addictive and it does mess with you.
There is a LOT of cannabis induced psychosis around, but it's not very well known.
And you can't just argue that "well if you can't handle it don't do it" because people simply will do things they shouldn't. It doesn't need to be any more available than it already is. Nobody has even gotten into trouble for NOT smoking.
On the other hand, I do think it's wrong for it to be completely outlawed and punishable to smoke plant, though in the case of opium people wouldn't use the same arguments I think.

Maybe the problem is that it's become so much of a DRUG that nobody manages to have a sensible opinion on it. It's either completely harmless or the devil's weed.
 
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Marissa

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invisible trousers said:
Horoscopes is making up stupid stuff that isn't really christian; consuming marijuana is eating a plant made by God.

What's your point? I was asked a question. I answered it. I never said it was relevant.

You are just looking for a fight, and it's showing.


But you can't compare the devil's weed to the forbidden tree. They aren't similar in any way.

Yes I can. Especially in the context provided.

God made it, therefore it's okay. Well, God made the forbidden fruit too. So therefore it must be okay, yet it's not.

The argument doesn't stand up.

No scriptural justification.

Er...yeah, I did provide scriptural justification. You've ignored it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Besides, you've never smoked weed, have you? I don't think you can provide a valid opinion on something you have no experience with.

That seems to be your automatic response to anyone who disagrees with you.

I'm a 22 year old white middle class female. I've smoked weed.

Am I allowed an opinion now?

Though, unfortunately I wouldn't be allowed an opinion on murder. Given I've never experienced that.

Well, this is kind of moot I guess. None of the religious arguments should have a legal bearing on the discussion of it being legalized. The war on drugs is a colossal failure, a waste of money, and hasn't shown to work at all. Imprisoning people convicted of mere drug possession hasn't shown to affect usage rates a single bit.

What you seem to have missed is that the OP asks whether it's alright it's alright in the eyes of God to partake in marijuana. That is, is it a sin? Bringing up religion in this thread isn't inappropriate at all. Quite the opposite, it's to be expected.

I'm wondering if you're being convicted over current or previous drug use, because you're awfully defensive. People are allowed opinions that differ from yours.
 
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mnphysicist

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holo said:
On the other hand, I do think it's wrong for it to be completely outlawed and punishable to smoke plant, though in the case of opium people wouldn't use the same arguments I think.

Maybe the problem is that it's become so much of a DRUG that nobody manages to have a sensible opinion on it. It's either completely harmless or the devil's weed.

100% in agreement. Its a major waste of resources to fight it and jail people. Here, they spend so much $$$$$$ on jailing drug users, they sacrifice primary education. I think thats a misplaced priority. BTW, its rare to jail someone for alcohol offenses. I guess its a screwed up society.

Your second paragraph is so true. Very little real science has been done. The govt makes research so onerous, no one will touch the subject... then throw in propaganda from the pro-users, and its hard to say what the real story is, other than its politics and greed driven.

The sad part, is anecdotal evidence seems to indicate a very high probability that its beneficial from a medical standpoint, and folks are needlessly suffering a great deal. Thats what really ticks me off.

Ron
 
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Shizzle

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The sad part, is anecdotal evidence seems to indicate a very high probability that its beneficial from a medical standpoint
i have many friends who say that they experience some bad affects directly from it that they can really notice like:
-Not being able to remember what happened yesterday or what they were doing five minutes ago, randomly.
-tiredness all the time, in varying degrees to how much hes smoked lately
-addiction(only 1), doesnt get as high anymore, knows hes going to end up having to go on to a harder drug, says shrooms probaly. (addiction to some degree will develop over a period of time proportionate to the amount and quantity of intake)

actually thats about it.. ...

But you have to remember that marijuana usage in groups can be extremely fun, hilarious, and random. If you didnt do it as much, you probaly wouldnt notice the side affects as much, or it would take longer before you began noticing them. The problem is, it isnt just the high, but what happens when your high.. the stories ive heard are hilarious.

I havent ever smoked and wont for a variety of reasons:
A- i will know the feeling of it and throught trials and crisises the temptation would be inevitabley larger.
B- i know that it has side affects, mostly dealing with the accumulation of THC, which erodes short term memory, and exhausts your body.
C- i have a theory that it was one of the causes in mental illness for my sister and my cousin, they were/are both about the age, with the social group that would most likely be capable of attaining it. specially my sister.
D- it stays in your system for about 4 weeks-2 months depending on quantity and amount consumed recently.
E- you arent always 100% sure of what your getting, black widow, the so called high quality goverment weed, is really just another type spray painted black, with red painted seeds. The spray paint aids to the high, and has extreme health affects. I have a friend who had his weed laced with loveboat(his high lasted for 2 days, so did the migraine), a less potent variation of acid with little side affects in comparison.
F- what if i got caught?
G- what if i got caught?
H- there are minimal dangers while high, but minimal.

Reasons i would like to smoke it:
A- i have a theory that it can make you more spiritually receptive at the time, and maybe after, but that this affect is more likely to come after a long time usage 1month+, no idea if it can be induced. This theory is based on many many things from many diferent places/people. You can become more spiritually receptive through God tho, so it isnt a just weed thing.
B- would like to try meditating while high
C- to be with my friends while high, have something to talk about later.

But the reasons not to outway the reasons to, i would never smoke just to get high.

ne1 can do this: Still-minded mediation, do not confuse with something Jesus related after youve done it just because of the feeling. I dont know if this is satanic or not, nothing to show that it is, not inferred to in the bible anywhere. Bliss(varying in your skill) can be achieved after a time(varying in your skill), 2 hours is longest ive gone, but i got bored of it and havent done it much since. i know someone who quit marijuana cas he could get "spiritually high" much easier. he however, is not christian. this does sound stupid but oh well.
 
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mnphysicist

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Here are some things to consider.

1. Have you ever seen a patient for whom morphine is not effective?
2. Have you ever seen a cancer patient, for whom the needed level of pain killers to give relief will probably result in death?
3. Have you ever seen an HIV patient for whom no current medical modalities can get them through a day without screaming in pain for hours?
4. Have you seen the person that has had a spinal rhizotomy fail, leaving them totally non-functional, and in extreme pain, such that they are not able to communicate.

And the list goes on and on. It is sad, and for some people, at least it appears on the surface marijuana alleviates some of the pain or other symptoms. When their illness is a chronic one, who really cares if they become addicted, does it really matter, except for some moralists who take a stance that a life spent screaming and moaning in pain for most of every day is better than addiction. There are also many physicians that take the stance of do no harm, equates to doing nothing. The positive part, however, is they are being sued for malpractice, and the WHO initiatives are making some inroads when it comes to accreditation loss, if patients are left hanging out to dry.

Or lets go one step further... lets say for example, that beyond sympton relief, the "high" if it even exists at that stage gives them some quality of life, instead of writhing in pain, or maybe an hour or two a day of being somewhat lucid, instead of a semi conscious state due to morphine.

Years ago, I might have had similiar thoughts to yours. Get involved in patient care sometime, and I think you just might change your mind. Pharmacology is a big guessing game. What works for A is counterproductive for B. To place limits on patient care because of political greed, or even worse (to protect the children, as parents are irresponsible, or young folks, because they are too stupid to know) is plain and simple stupidity, and the worst case of hyprocracy as it affects all of society, rather than a few isolated individuals, except of course politicians in the pocketbook.

The era of the baby boomers is going to bring about major changes in public policy. As soon as enough ot them in serious medical extrema, reach critical mass, society will change, or in the worst case, suicide rates will sky rocket.

Just for the record, I've never touched the stuff, and never will, unless I get to be like some patients I've seen and its the only option. In addition, I'm not an MD, just a disillusioned researcher who called it quits on the medical field as its politics and greed driven with little concern for the actual patient.

Ron
 
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invisible trousers

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:sigh: maybe i'll reply to other things tomorrow (like Marissa's post) when finals are finished

Shizzle said:
i know that it has side affects, mostly dealing with the accumulation of THC, which erodes short term memory, and exhausts your body.
False. I asked for proof and you didn't give it to me last time, so I'll ask again: please back up those claims with actual scientific proof. If you can't back them up, maybe you should stop claiming it.


you arent always 100% sure of what your getting, black widow, the so called high quality goverment weed, is really just another type spray painted black, with red painted seeds. The spray paint aids to the high, and has extreme health affects. I have a friend who had his weed laced with loveboat(his high lasted for 2 days, so did the migraine), a less potent variation of acid with little side affects in comparison.

Uh ok now you're making stuff up.
1. Black Widow is a strain of cannabis, just like the many others. There isn't anything particularily special about it.
2. The government does not produce marijuana, except for all 6 or 7 people who are legally allowed to smoke it.
3. Weed isn't spray painted. A dealer who started doing that would be well on his way to getting a beatdown.
3a. It would be ridiculously easy to tell if it had been painted. Like "hmm, why does this smell like paint?"
4. Weed can't be laced with LSD. LSD decomposes very easily (like in light and warm temperature) so it is immediately destroyed by the lighter flame.
5. "Loveboat" is not a less potent type of acid, but another slang term for it. There really isn't such a thing as less potent acid--LSD is LSD.

It's easy to keep marijuana illegal when people are fed so many lies and misconceptions.
 
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