marian apparitions

Lord's Servant

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What do you believe about Marian apparitions? Do you believe in them? And do you believe that they are Mary or are they a demon? And which ones do you accept?

I personally accept just two Our lady of Walsingham and Our Lady of Guadelupe
 
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Mountainmike

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What do you believe about Marian apparitions? Do you believe in them? And do you believe that they are Mary are a demon? And which ones do you accept?

I personally accept just two Our lady of Walsingham and Our Lady of Guadelupe

Surprised you choose only those? Why do you discount the more celebrated ones like Fatima?

How much do you even know about such - for example - our Lady of kibeho? Or Akita? Or indeed zeitoun?

The prophecies fulfilled at such as Fatima and Kibeho are hard to discount as random chance.

And as for Zeitoun - witnessed by millions of all occupations, and all religions and none, our lady must be thinking, what else can I do to get noticed!
 
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Mountainmike

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I do not believe they are of God..
The Catholic Church wisely studies the fruits , and applies the biblical concept that "bad trees do not produce good fruit", to determine what might be worthy of belief, but stopping short of requiring belief.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I used to be extremely cautious of Marian apparitions. Less so now. Zeitun was the first apparition that got me wondering if this could be Mary. Studying 1,500 years of Marian hymns and prayers, art and apparitions prior to Martin Luther and later Reformers was a great help. And a blessing. Accepting Mary's perpetual virginity opened up a door for me to be able to praise and trust her a little.

The article below, from the Greek Orthodox Church, helped me understand.


The Ever-Virginity of the Mother of God - Theology - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
 
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Lord's Servant

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I chose Guadelupe because it was part of my culture basically it had a huge impact in Mexico and Walsingham I believe in it because she doesn't say anything unbiblical she didn't come up with new doctrines
 
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Lord's Servant

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I used to be extremely cautious of Marian apparitions. Less so now. Zeitun was the first apparition that got me wondering if this could be Mary. Studying 1,500 years of Marian hymns and prayers, art and apparitions prior to Martin Luther and later Reformers was a great help. And a blessing. Accepting Mary's perpetual virginity opened up a door for me to be able to praise and trust her a little.

The article below, from the Greek Orthodox Church, helped me understand.


The Ever-Virginity of the Mother of God - Theology - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Thank you for the link
 
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Lord's Servant

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Surprised you choose only those? Why do you discount the more celebrated ones like Fatima?

How much do you even know about such - for example - our Lady of kibeho? Or Akita? Or indeed zeitoun?

The prophecies fulfilled at such as Fatima and Kibeho are hard to discount as random chance.

And as for Zeitoun - witnessed by millions of all occupations, and all religions and none, our lady must be thinking, what else can I do to get noticed!
Ive only known Fatima,Lourdes,Knock,Guadelupe and Walsingham and I choose Guadelupe because she converted millions to Christianity and healed Juan's uncle and I choose Walsingham because she didn't ask anything but a simple and I feel uneasy with Loudres because she didn't say she Mary or the Mother of God just the immaculate conception
 
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anna ~ grace

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What you mention troubled me about Lourdes for a while, too. But getting go know more about Saint Bernadette has been eye opening. I still have no idea how to discern stuff like this, but slowly learning and being willing to admit that I've been wrong seem to help me get clarity. Also, trying to trust the Catholic Church, whereas I think Protestantism kind of teaches us to look at our opinions as though they're Gospel Truth.

Ive only known Fatima,Lourdes,Knock,Guadelupe and Walsingham and I choose Guadelupe because she converted millions to Christianity and healed Juan's uncle and I choose Walsingham because she didn't ask anything but a simple and I feel uneasy with Loudres because she didn't say she Mary or the Mother of God just the immaculate conception
 
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Lord's Servant

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What you mention troubled me about Lourdes for a while, too. But getting go know more about Saint Bernadette has been eye opening. I still have no idea how to discern stuff like this, but slowly learning and being willing to admit that I've been wrong seem to help me get clarity. Also, trying to trust the Catholic Church, whereas I think Protestantism kind of teaches us to look at our opinions as though they're Gospel Truth.
Ah I see then. I'll try to learn more about her and I believe she became a nun but I'm not sure and I'll try to keep a open mind and I'm a Protestant and sometimes that is true unfortunately
 
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anna ~ grace

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Ah I see then. I'll try to learn more about her and I believe she became a nun but I'm not sure and I'll try to keep a open mind and I'm a Protestant and sometimes that is true unfortunately

Godspeed, brother!
 
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Mountainmike

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Ah I see then. I'll try to learn more about her and I believe she became a nun but I'm not sure and I'll try to keep a open mind and I'm a Protestant and sometimes that is true unfortunately
An in depth study of Bernadette herself how she coped resolute in the face of interrogation is one of the most compelling aspects of Lourdes.

As for " immaculate conception" you are putting a dogmatic horse in front of a cart. Decide on the veracity of Lourdes, and if convinced accept that as evidence of the dogma. Don't decide on dogma first, so then edit history because you dislike the dogmatic undertone!

Lots of good books out there,
Start with the book by trochu for a rounded summary.
Plenty of others take Bernadettes own writings by laurentin

The others I mentioned are well worth examination, but in some cases it is becoming harder to get the contemporary books that are getting older for such as zeitoun.

The prophecies fulfilled are also compelling- both for Fatima - the miracle - also our lady of Kibeho. Immaculee ilibagiza is a compelling writer as is her own history
But Disregard the meteorological detail of the miracle of the suntan Fatima - the real question is how was an extraordinary event so extraordinary it made all media which had never happened before or since,, so how was it predicted by the lady many months before, so that it was verified even in atheist press, and was witnessed over 30km away by others who had no idea it was foretold, in short it could not be a mass hypnosis.

Others like betania, Akita also fascinating,

The apparition at rue de bac ( miraculous medal) are also interesting when you see the history not just of Catherine laboure but also a contemporary sister in that convent Sr Marie de Grancey , and her role in discovering Mary's house in Ephesus.

The ones which are questionable are garabandal and medjugorje.

If you want help with reading lists am happy to oblige.
Take " meet the witnesses" for Fatima.
 
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mea kulpa

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I believe 100% the approved apperitions that are classified as worthy of belief

Fatima, loureds, Quito, la salette etc

I believe 99% the conversations of saints with our lady and our lord and angels

I believe 95 to 75% of conversations with blesseds to venerables

On going not declared

I dont feel inclined with medjugoria 25%
I am 60 to 70% garabandal.. st padre pio said they were true.
About 40 to 50 our lady of the roses
 
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anna ~ grace

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I dont really know much about it. I will check it out and get back to you. What are your feelings?

It somehow feels legitimate, but the history of the apparitions is odd. It's been suppressed and then sort of permitted, but never given official approval. The Blessed Virgin used the name Mediatrix of All Graces in this one.
 
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Lord's Servant

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An in depth study of Bernadette herself how she coped resolute in the face of interrogation is one of the most compelling aspects of Lourdes.

As for " immaculate conception" you are putting a dogmatic horse in front of a cart. Decide on the veracity of Lourdes, and if convinced accept that as evidence of the dogma. Don't decide on dogma first, so then edit history because you dislike the dogmatic undertone!

Lots of good books out there,
Start with the book by trochu for a rounded summary.
Plenty of others take Bernadettes own writings by laurentin

The others I mentioned are well worth examination, but in some cases it is becoming harder to get the contemporary books that are getting older for such as zeitoun.

The prophecies fulfilled are also compelling- both for Fatima - the miracle - also our lady of Kibeho. Immaculee ilibagiza is a compelling writer as is her own history
But Disregard the meteorological detail of the miracle of the suntan Fatima - the real question is how was an extraordinary event so extraordinary it made all media which had never happened before or since,, so how was it predicted by the lady many months before, so that it was verified even in atheist press, and was witnessed over 30km away by others who had no idea it was foretold, in short it could not be a mass hypnosis.

Others like betania, Akita also fascinating,

The apparition at rue de bac ( miraculous medal) are also interesting when you see the history not just of Catherine laboure but also a contemporary sister in that convent Sr Marie de Grancey , and her role in discovering Mary's house in Ephesus.

The ones which are questionable are garabandal and medjugorje.

If you want help with reading lists am happy to oblige.
Take " meet the witnesses" for Fatima.
Thank you for the resources and thank you for the book and alright I'll edit the history of the Loudres story without her saying she is immaculate conception. I've heard about sister Catherine she had visions of Mary life and death correct ?
 
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Mountainmike

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Thank you for the resources and thank you for the book and alright I'll edit the history of the Loudres story without her saying she is immaculate conception. I've heard about sister Catherine she had visions of Mary life and death correct ?
You are confusing Catherine's!

Catherine laboure - a Vincentian sister - received apparitions of Mary at rue de bac convent in Paris, and was the originator of the " miraculous medal" at our ladies Behest. Her life was worth reading and is fascinating, including her vision of st Vincent de Paul, that led her to become a nun.

Sister Catherine emmerich was a bedridden nun who had visions of both the life of our Lord ( the dolorous passion which is the basis for the Mel Gibson film) but also the life of Mary (which very much confirms the non canonical gospel the so called "protoevangelism of James". ) more of that later...

As part of her account sr Catherine emmerich describes the house in Ephesus on a remote hillside , describing both the ( unusual ) structure of the building e.g. Octagonal back, where hearths and windows were. But also the unique view to the left out to the islands, and to the right back to Ephesus miles away on an overgrrown hillside. She also describes our ladies " stations of the cross" as stones placed on the hillside behind.

Sr Marie de grancey was a vicentian nun and near contemporary of sr Catherine laboure who also lived at rue de bac convent for a time, a lady of nobility and considerable family wealth, who ultimately became a superior and by chance ended up opening a convent in Ephesus.

Sr Marie de grancey heard the story of Catherine emmerich whilst there, and she organised and funded expeditions to find " panaghia capouli" - " miryamana evi" Mary's house, .

After much searching on the hill massif called " nightingale mountain" By chance looking for water they stumbled on a ruin, and to cut a story short it was in the ONLY place , on those mountains where the views Catherine emmerich described were even possible.

Only when they excavated the 2000 year old foundation did they find the architecture Catherine emmerich described. Also they found Hebrew inscribed stones on the hillside where the stations of cross were described ( could they be in our ladies own fair hand?)

So Catherine emmerich saw the house as it was two millennia before, travelling through time and distance...not as it is!
How? She was bedridden!

Sr Marie de grancey used family wealth to buy nightingale mountain , build paths to it, and preserve it, for posterity, now a shrine. There is divine providence in the unlikely events that allow her to buy it.

Fascinating story. Read" the life of sr Marie de grancey, and Mary's house" ( authors name I forget, cracking book)
Or perhaps " our lady of ephesus" Deutsch.
Various other books including " panaghia capouli" written in French by those who did the archeology in the 19th century,

Also read " Mary of Nazareth" hesseman, see the massive amount of archeology that gives credence to our ladies journey into such as Egypt, and to an extent her early life , her mother and father described in emmerich and in the proto evangelium, and the various ruins her dwelling places in the holy land,

As for Lourdes - had you considered Our lady visited us , in part specifically to confirm the dogma of immaculate conception that concerns you? Read " behold your mother " staples to see a thorough underpinning of the Marian doctrines.
 
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Lord's Servant

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You are confusing Catherine's!

Catherine laboure - a Vincentian sister - received apparitions of Mary at rue de bac convent in Paris, and was the originator of the " miraculous medal" at our ladies Behest. Her life was worth reading and is fascinating, including her vision of st Vincent de Paul, that led her to become a nun.

Sister Catherine emmerich was a bedridden nun who had visions of both the life of our Lord ( the dolorous passion which is the basis for the Mel Gibson film) but also the life of Mary (which very much confirms the non canonical gospel the so called "protoevangelism of James". ) more of that later...

As part of her account sr Catherine emmerich describes the house in Ephesus on a remote hillside , describing both the ( unusual ) structure of the building e.g. Octagonal back, where hearths and windows were. But also the unique view to the left out to the islands, and to the right back to Ephesus miles away on an overgrrown hillside. She also describes our ladies " stations of the cross" as stones placed on the hillside behind.

Sr Marie de grancey was a vicentian nun and near contemporary of sr Catherine laboure who also lived at rue de bac convent for a time, a lady of nobility and considerable family wealth, who ultimately became a superior and by chance ended up opening a convent in Ephesus.

Sr Marie de grancey heard the story of Catherine emmerich whilst there, and she organised and funded expeditions to find " panaghia capouli" - " miryamana evi" Mary's house, .

After much searching on the hill massif called " nightingale mountain" By chance looking for water they stumbled on a ruin, and to cut a story short it was in the ONLY place , on those mountains where the views Catherine emmerich described were even possible.

Only when they excavated the 2000 year old foundation did they find the architecture Catherine emmerich described. Also they found Hebrew inscribed stones on the hillside where the stations of cross were described ( could they be in our ladies own fair hand?)

So Catherine emmerich saw the house as it was two millennia before, travelling through time and distance...not as it is!
How? She was bedridden!

Sr Marie de grancey used family wealth to buy nightingale mountain , build paths to it, and preserve it, for posterity, now a shrine. There is divine providence in the unlikely events that allow her to buy it.

Fascinating story. Read" the life of sr Marie de grancey, and Mary's house" ( authors name I forget, cracking book)
Or perhaps " our lady of ephesus" Deutsch.
Various other books including " panaghia capouli" written in French by those who did the archeology in the 19th century,

Also read " Mary of Nazareth" hesseman, see the massive amount of archeology that gives credence to our ladies journey into such as Egypt, and to an extent her early life , her mother and father described in emmerich and in the proto evangelium, and the various ruins her dwelling places in the holy land,

As for Lourdes - had you considered Our lady visited us , in part specifically to confirm the dogma of immaculate conception that concerns you? Read " behold your mother " staples to see a thorough underpinning of the Marian doctrines.
Thank you for explaining the differences because I initially thought about sister Catherine emmerich and I never thought about that before and thank you for the book
 
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