Marian apparitions...are they for real or a hoax?

[barryatlake]

Marvin, Clearly your interpretation is in error. I know because the Holy Spirit revealed the correct interpretation to me.

Of course I am being facetious. What is wrong with the above statement? Why cannot I be my own source for interpreting the Holy Scripture? Being that each Protestant takes this approach , look at where it ultimately has lead? Think about it?
Jesus commissioned His One and only One church [ singular] while being based on Apostolic Sacred Traditions with Sacred Scripture, not as in many thousands of conflicting churches as we find in your Protestantism. Jesus never intended for dissention and doctrinal divisions among His Christian Church see Rom.16:17-18 and 1 Cor. 1:10.
Jesus said that listening to His church we are listening to Him, read Luke 10:16
Sorry its off topic, but, had to get you straightened out first.

 

[Galilee63]

Marvin,

Both God The Most High and Jesus Christ our Saviour have made it quite clear within His Old Testament and New Testament that mankind were to always be guided by His Roman Catholic Church and His priests in order to receive 'all' of His Blessed Sacraments of Love (Jesus makes reference to His Blessed Sacraments) within His Old Testament and New Testament.

Receiving "all" of God/The Holy Spirit's Blessed Sacraments of Love including His Holy Eucharist from our hearts not just from our minds - this includes Baptism of The Holy Spirit, Holy Communion, Confirmation (a deepening and renewal of receiving the 7 Gifts of The Holy Spirit of which are received within the Catholic Church), the renewal in Church annually of Confirming our Love and Faith in Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit, Reconciliation (Confession and receiving Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's forgiveness of sins); all within His Catholic Church.

Some of these Blessed Holy Sacraments of Love available to all of Jesus/God's Children are only available through Jesus Christ our Saviour's Catholic Church.

From the very beginning when God The Most High appeared and spoke to His Apostles BC, God The Most High had appointed His "priests" while providing His Holy Covenant of which all teachings (in God's Holy Will) are Catholic teachings. Priests, The Holy Tabernacle, His Blessed Sacrament, His Holy Altars, repentance of sins to God to be done prior to receiving God/The Holy Spirit's Blessed Holy Eucharist/Sacraments - all of God's Holy teachings BC for mankind to follow are Catholic teachings from His priests BC, during Jesus Christ our Saviour's birth, life and Teachings and AD; many of Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's teachings not practiced by other faiths within their Churches.

The Lord has sworn and will not relent, 'You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.' " (Psalm 110:1-4)

Melchizedek was a High Priest of God The Most High's - appointed by God The Most High:
"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine: and he was [is] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, "Blessed be Abram to the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth, And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand". And he gave him tithe from all.

—Genesis 14:18-20

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrews 7:1-2).

Hebrews - 6:19:-
6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. - Melchizedek

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”

Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better Covenant.

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.


2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Melchizedek Was God's Priest and Jesus Christ our Saviour was His High Priest in the Order of Melchizedek and Jesus Christ our Saviour eternally with His Mercy in His Holy Will.

First, notice from both Old and New Testaments that the man of mystery, Melchizedek, was a priest of the Most High God. Turn 'low to the account in Genesis 14. During the war between a number of ancient city-states in Canaan and Mesopotamia, Abraham's nephew Lot had been captured. He and his family and goods were carted off.

One of their number escaped and brought the news to Abraham, who armed 318 of his own servants and pursued the invaders to what was later named Dan and beyond. Abraham rescued Lot and his family and returned them safely to the Canaanite cities.

Abraham was ministered to by Melchizedek (God The Most High's High Priest then).

"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High. And he [Melchizedek] blessed him [Abraham] and said, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, maker of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!' And Abram gave him [Melchizedek] a tenth of everything" that is, a tithe of all, for a tithe means a tenth (Genesis 14:18-20, RSV).

Notice that Melchizedek was king of Salem. That is the city of Jerusalem. "Salem" comes from the Hebrew word meaning "peace." That would make Melchizedek the "King of Peace" (Hebrews 7:2). The Hebrew name Melchizedek itself means "King of Righteousness" (Hebrews 7:2). The same individual is mentioned in Psalm 110:4. Speaking prophetically of Christ, David stated: "The Eternal hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This verse is quoted again in Hebrews 5:6, 10. Hebrews 7 - Melchizedek

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrews 7:1-2).

God The Most High appeared to His "priests" and "high priests" BC.

Jesus Christ our Saviour was made High Priest by God The Most High while being our Saviour for eternity with His Mercy, (Divine Mercy) in His Holy Will of which God The Most High makes reference to the 'forthcoming Messiah with Mercy" in His Old Testament.

Jesus made this clear within His New Testament to: "Repent and believe in The Good News" telling His Disciples (His priests).

God The Most High made this clear to His Apostles BC - "repent of sins".

 

[Marvin Knox]

Marvin,

Both God The Most High and Jesus Christ our Saviour have made it quite clear within His Old Testament and New Testament that mankind were to always be guided by His Roman Catholic Church and His priests in order to receive 'all' of His Blessed Sacraments of Love (Jesus makes reference to His Blessed Sacraments) within His Old Testament and New Testament.

Receiving "all" of God/The Holy Spirit's Blessed Sacraments of Love including His Holy Eucharist from our hearts not just from our minds - this includes Baptism of The Holy Spirit, Holy Communion, Confirmation (a deepening and renewal of receiving the 7 Gifts of The Holy Spirit of which are received within the Catholic Church), the renewal in Church annually of Confirming our Love and Faith in Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit, Reconciliation (Confession and receiving Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's forgiveness of sins); all within His Catholic Church.

Some of these Blessed Holy Sacraments of Love available to all of Jesus/God's Children are only available through Jesus Christ our Saviour's Catholic Church.

From the very beginning when God The Most High appeared and spoke to His Apostles BC, God The Most High had appointed His "priests" while providing His Holy Covenant of which all teachings (in God's Holy Will) are Catholic teachings. Priests, The Holy Tabernacle, His Blessed Sacrament, His Holy Altars, repentance of sins to God to be done prior to receiving God/The Holy Spirit's Blessed Holy Eucharist/Sacraments - all of God's Holy teachings BC for mankind to follow are Catholic teachings from His priests BC, during Jesus Christ our Saviour's birth, life and Teachings and AD; many of Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's teachings not practiced by other faiths within their Churches.

The Lord has sworn and will not relent, 'You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.' " (Psalm 110:1-4)

Melchizedek was a High Priest of God The Most High's - appointed by God The Most High:
"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine: and he was [is] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, "Blessed be Abram to the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth, And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand". And he gave him tithe from all.

—Genesis 14:18-20

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrews 7:1-2).

Hebrews - 6:19:-
6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. - Melchizedek

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”

Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better Covenant.

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.


2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Melchizedek Was God's Priest and Jesus Christ our Saviour was His High Priest in the Order of Melchizedek and Jesus Christ our Saviour eternally with His Mercy in His Holy Will.

First, notice from both Old and New Testaments that the man of mystery, Melchizedek, was a priest of the Most High God. Turn 'low to the account in Genesis 14. During the war between a number of ancient city-states in Canaan and Mesopotamia, Abraham's nephew Lot had been captured. He and his family and goods were carted off.

One of their number escaped and brought the news to Abraham, who armed 318 of his own servants and pursued the invaders to what was later named Dan and beyond. Abraham rescued Lot and his family and returned them safely to the Canaanite cities.

Abraham was ministered to by Melchizedek (God The Most High's High Priest then).

"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High. And he [Melchizedek] blessed him [Abraham] and said, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, maker of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!' And Abram gave him [Melchizedek] a tenth of everything" that is, a tithe of all, for a tithe means a tenth (Genesis 14:18-20, RSV).

Notice that Melchizedek was king of Salem. That is the city of Jerusalem. "Salem" comes from the Hebrew word meaning "peace." That would make Melchizedek the "King of Peace" (Hebrews 7:2). The Hebrew name Melchizedek itself means "King of Righteousness" (Hebrews 7:2). The same individual is mentioned in Psalm 110:4. Speaking prophetically of Christ, David stated: "The Eternal hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This verse is quoted again in Hebrews 5:6, 10. Hebrews 7 - Melchizedek

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrews 7:1-2).

God The Most High appeared to His "priests" and "high priests" BC.

Jesus Christ our Saviour was made High Priest by God The Most High while being our Saviour for eternity with His Mercy, (Divine Mercy) in His Holy Will of which God The Most High makes reference to the 'forthcoming Messiah with Mercy" in His Old Testament.

Jesus made this clear within His New Testament to: "Repent and believe in The Good News" telling His Disciples (His priests).

God The Most High made this clear to His Apostles BC - "repent of sins".

Much of this post is exactly the kind of pabulum double talk that results from unregenerate leadership in the "church".

I have many posts in the forum. I won't try to convince anyone of truth further here in this thread.

Not only that but there is a body of Protestant literature that refutes the Roman cult more adequately than I am able.

Spend some time considering these things. Your life likely depends on it.

 

[tadoflamb]

These French keyboards are hard to figure out!

 

[tadoflamb]

I've often wondered about that myself.

It seems to be the case that the more fabulous the legend--and the more enthusiastically the person testifies to his belief in it and engages in elaborate acts that show his commitment--the more he thinks he is showing himself to be a spiritual or devout person.

I am still wondering why the Anglicans have a shrine here dedicated to Notre Dame de Lourdes.

How did they ever decide to do something like that?

Really, being here in Lourdes really makes me call into question how could this be experienced within the protestant tradition. I am just blown away over what has occured here over the last few days while at the same time realizing it is beyond the protestant mind set.

 

[Albion]

I am still wondering why the Anglicans have a shrine here dedicated to Notre Dame de Lourdes.

How did they ever decide to do something like that?

Really, being here in Lourdes really makes me call into question how could this be experienced within the protestant tradition. I am just blown away over what has occured here over the last few days while at the same time realizing it is beyond the protestant mind set.

You just blown away, huh? It kinda makes one think that people who don't know these things -- and admit it -- ought not be so outspoken about villifying everything connected to Protestant Christianity. I think that's why the term "knee jerk reaction" exists.

 

[Rhamiel]

it is good to see that at least some Protestants have a normal and rational mindset about Mary

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

MOD HAT ON

*taps on desk with ruler*

Ladies and gentlemen, please remember not to flame opposing theological views while disagreeing. You do have the right to disagree, but address the idea, not the poster, when you do it.

Refer please to the Statement of Purpose in a sticky thread at the top of the Mariology forum.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[concretecamper]

I am still wondering why the Anglicans have a shrine here dedicated to Notre Dame de Lourdes.

How did they ever decide to do something like that?

Really, being here in Lourdes really makes me call into question how could this be experienced within the protestant tradition. I am just blown away over what has occured here over the last few days while at the same time realizing it is beyond the protestant mind set.

It is a persona that most protestants on GT like to exhibit. Anything Catholic is voodoo because it makes for better zingers, but what they fail to realize is most of their theology is from the Catholic Church. I for one am glad Anglicans have such a shrine.

 

[Galilee63]

Apparitions and pictures of Virgin Mary

This is a most beautiful collection of some Saints of whom Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God have appeared,

I wish you all a Happy new Year.

 

[tadoflamb]

You just blown away, huh? It kinda makes one think that people who don't know these things -- and admit it -- ought not be so outspoken about villifying everything connected to Protestant Christianity. I think that's why the term "knee jerk reaction" exists.

Have I really vilified every thing connected to protestantism, or could this be an example of a "knee jerk reaction"?

Never-the-less, I have to give people a break who don't understand what's happening at Lourdes. I don't understand it myself. Still, I have to wonder why your own archbishop has appeared at a shrine dedicated to who you describe as a 'bit player'.

Anglicans join in Lourdes Jubilee

 

[tadoflamb]

It is a persona that most protestants on GT like to exhibit. Anything Catholic is voodoo because it makes for better zingers, but what they fail to realize is most of their theology is from the Catholic Church. I for one am glad Anglicans have such a shrine.

Actually, aside from a Wikipedia reference, I can't find any evidence of an Anglican Marian shrine in Lourdes. I do know one of their archbishops showed up at ours, however, for which I'm glad.

Anglicans join in Lourdes Jubilee

 

[Albion]

Have I really vilified every thing connected to Protestantism

Every last thing? Probably not. But I have come to expect that when I see "tadoflamb" on the lists of posts, I have a very good idea of what it's likely to be about. How about breaking that particular habit? I think you have a lot you could say...if only it were something we all could join in with.

Never-the-less, I have to give people a break who don't understand what's happening at Lourdes. I don't understand it myself. Still, I have to wonder why your own archbishop has appeared at a shrine dedicated to who you describe as a 'bit player'.

Now, that's not fair IMO. I have steadily indicated that Mary, as the mother of God, deserves honor and respect. It also is the case--whether you want to admit to it or not--that she is almost absent from any of the famous moments in Christ's life as recorded in Scripture. You would think that if she were this superbeing in the manner that Roman Catholics argue, that she would be held up by Jesus when he was speaking to the crowds, introduced, lauded, made a key "player" in the many events he was part of. But she wasn't.

That's curious, wouldn't even you have to agree? Especially if the legends of her being ever-virgin, dispenser of all graces, queen of heaven, immaculately conceived, assumed bodily into heaven--and the Lourdes and Fatima kind of things were true.

And I have also pointed out that it is possible, by legend and excessive devotions, to make saints into more than they were or are. No, it's not right to treat any saint in the manner of a demi-god (which term of comparison has been made here by lots of other posters in the past).

P.S. It's not "my archbishop." I believe you are referring to the Archbishop of Canterbury, right?.

 

[barryatlake]

Albion, according to "The Passing of Mary," a text attributed to Joseph of Arimathea, Thomas was the only witness of the Assumption of Mary into heaven. The other apostles were miraculously transported to Jerusalem to witness her death. Thomas was left in India, but after her first burial, he was transported to her tomb, where he witnessed her bodily assumption into heaven, from which she dropped her girdle. In an inversion of the story of Thomas' doubts, the other apostles are skeptical of Thomas' story until they see the empty tomb and the girdle. Thomas' receipt of the girdle is commonly depicted in medieval and pre-Tridentine Renaissance art.

 

[Albion]

Albion, according to "The Passing of Mary," a text attributed to Joseph of Arimathea, Thomas was the only witness of the Assumption of Mary into heaven.

It's interesting...and I hope that's all you intended by posting this. No one--including your own church that you like to think created the Bible--believes that the above is inspired or accurate reporting. All you're doing is verifying my point that Mary has been the beneficiary of numerous myths and legends that we ought to keep separate from the facts of Scripture and history.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Albion, according to "The Passing of Mary," a text attributed to Joseph of Arimathea, Thomas was the only witness of the Assumption of Mary into heaven. The other apostles were miraculously transported to Jerusalem to witness her death. Thomas was left in India, but after her first burial, he was transported to her tomb, where he witnessed her bodily assumption into heaven, from which she dropped her girdle. In an inversion of the story of Thomas' doubts, the other apostles are skeptical of Thomas' story until they see the empty tomb and the girdle. Thomas' receipt of the girdle is commonly depicted in medieval and pre-Tridentine Renaissance art.

Shall we also conclude that the Gospel of Thomas was written by the Apostle Thomas and that it is equal to or better than any of the four canonical gospels?

 

[barryatlake]

Albion & bb,the Bible is indeed the Word of God, but you only know that because the Catholic Church told you so. How do you know what books should be in the Bible when the Bible doesn't tell you? You only know it because the Catholic Church definitively declared the Bible canon at the end of the fourth century.

If the Bible canon is necessary for our salvation, but Christ did not reveal it to His apostles, then Christ must have established an authority that would guarantee the early Christians' determination of the Bible canon after He ascended into heaven. This authority is the Holy Catholic Church.

There was no Bible as you know it for 400 years after Christ's death, and it wasn't even distributed for 1500 years after His death. If the Bible is the only way to get us to heaven, then what happened to those millions of poor souls who never had a Bible during the 1500 year period? You both need to get familiar with basic history. Jesus Christ established a Church to proclaim the good news. He never intended on having the Bible be the sole infallible guide for the Christian faith. This is why the Catholic /Apostolic Church is one as in Apostolic Succession, and your Protestant denominations are 30,000 + and growing with each new denomination moving further and further away from the original Gospel of the "Good News of Jesus".

The Catholic Church wrote, translated, copied, and preserved God's written word throughout the ages. That is the only reason you even have a Bible. Quit trying to interpret the Scriptures without the Church, because it is the Bible in the Church, the Church before the Bible, the Bible and the Church (both or neither).

 

[barryatlake]

bb, you wrote: " Shall we also conclude that the Gospel of Thomas was written by the Apostle Thomas and that it is equal to or better than any of the four canonical gospels?
__________________
It's a heck of a lot more dependable than Albion or your two-cents.

 

[bbbbbbb]

bb, you wrote: " Shall we also conclude that the Gospel of Thomas was written by the Apostle Thomas and that it is equal to or better than any of the four canonical gospels?
__________________
It's a heck of a lot more dependable than Albion or your two-cents.

Thank you. So, you believe this -

114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."



rather than anything Albion or I have posted? Interesting.

 

[barryatlake]

bb, you wrote: " rather than anything Albion or I have posted? Interesting."


__________________
Those are your words. my words are, "It's a heck of a lot more dependable than Albion or your two-cents." never said that the Gospel of Thomas was '' Canonical "
__________________