Marian apparitions...are they for real or a hoax?

[barryatlake]

Of course Jesus is our only Savior, Padre Pio is just another disciple for Jesus our Savior.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Of course Jesus is our only Savior, Padre Pio is just another disciple for Jesus our Savior.

However, it appears that Padre Pio and a host of other individuals serve the role of intercessors and mediators between us and God.

 

[Galilee63]

Trust in our Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Sister Margaret Mary ALACOQUE - Janot France.

Religious of the Visitation Order. Apostle of the Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, born at Lhautecour, France, 22 July, 1647; died at Paray-le-Monial, 17 October, 1690.

Sister Margaret's devotion to our Lord Jesus Christ's Passion was rewarded with the first of the Revelations on 27 December 1673. While kneeling alone before The Blessed Sacrament exposed on the Altar, Sister Margaret at once felt herself, as she says:
"invested" by The Divine Presence and heard Our Lord Jesus inviting Her to take the place which St John occupied at His Last Supper.

Jesus told Her that the Love of His Heart must be spread and made manifest to people by means of Her. Jesus also told Her that He would reveal His Sacred Heart.

For 18 months, our Lord Jesus continued to appear at intervals to Margaret-Mary explaining and amplifying the first Revelation. Jesus told her that His Heart was to be honoured under the form of a Heart of Flesh.

This was to be done by frequent Communion especially on the first Friday of each month in Memory of His Agony and Desertion in Gethsemane.


Her parents, Claude Alacoque and Philiberte Lamyn, were distinguished less for temporal possessions than for their virtue, which gave them an honourable position. From early childhood Margaret showed intense love for the Blessed Sacrament, and preferred silence and prayer to childish amusements. After her first communion at the age of nine, she practised in secret severe corporal mortifications, until paralysis confined her to bed for four years. At the end of this period, having made a vow to the Blessed Virgin to consecrate herself to religious life, she was instantly restored to perfect health. The death of her father and the injustice of a relative plunged the family in poverty and humiliation, after which more than ever Margaret found consolation in the Blessed Sacrament, and Christ made her sensible of His presence and protection. He usually appeared to her as the Crucified or the Ecce Homo, and this did not surprise her, as she thought others had the same Divine assistance. When Margaret was seventeen, the family property was recovered, and her mother besought her to establish herself in the world. Her filial tenderness made her believe that the vow of childhood was not binding, and that she could serve God at home by penance and charity to the poor. Then, still bleeding from her self-imposed austerities, she began to take part in the pleasures of the world. One night upon her return from a ball, she had a vision of Christ as He was during the scourging, reproaching her for infidelity after He had given her so many proofs of His love. During her entire life Margaret mourned over two faults committed at this time--the wearing of some superfluous ornaments and a mask at the carnival to please her brothers.

On 25 May, 1671, she entered the Visitation Convent at Paray, where she was subjected to many trials to prove her vocation, and in November, 1672, pronounced her final vows. She had a delicate constitution, but was gifted with intelligence and good judgement, and in the cloister she chose for herself what was most repugnant to her nature, making her life one of inconceivable sufferings, which were often relieved or instantly cured by our Lord, Who acted as her Director, appeared to her frequently and conversed with her, confiding to her the mission to establish the devotion to His Sacred Heart. These extraordinary occurrences drew upon her the adverse criticism of the community, who treated her as a visionary, and her superior commanded her to live the common life. But her obedience, her humility, and invariable charity towards those who persecuted her, finally prevailed, and her mission, accomplished in the crucible of suffering, was recognized even by those who had shown her the most bitter opposition.

Margaret Mary was inspired by Christ to establish the Holy Hour and to pray lying prostrate with her face to the ground from eleven till midnight on the eve of the first Friday of each month, to share in the mortal sadness He endured when abandoned by His Apostles in His Agony, and to receive holy Communion on the first Friday of every month.

In the first great revelation, He made known to her His ardent desire to be loved by men and His design of manifesting His Heart with all Its treasures of love and mercy, of sanctification and salvation.

He appointed the Friday after the octave of the feast of Corpus Christi as the feast of the Sacred Heart; He called her "the Beloved Disciple of the Sacred Heart", and the heiress of all Its treasures. The love of the Sacred Heart was the fire which consumed her, and devotion to the Sacred Heart is the refrain of all her writings. In her last illness she refused all alleviation, repeating frequently: "What have I in heaven and what do I desire on earth, but Thee alone, O my God", and died pronouncing the Holy Name of Jesus.

The discussion of the mission and virtues of Margaret Mary continued for years. All her actions, her revelations, her spiritual maxims, her teachings regarding the devotion to the Sacred Heart, of which she was the chief exponent as well as the apostle, were subjected to the most severe and minute examination, and finally the Sacred Congregation of rites passed a favourable vote on the heroic virtues of this servant of God.

In March, 1824, Leo XII pronounced her Venerable, and on 18 September, 1864, Pius IX declared her Blessed. When her tomb was canonically opened in July, 1830, two instantaneous cures took place. Her body rests under the altar in the chapel at Paray, and many striking favours have been obtained by pilgrims attracted thither from all parts of the world. Her feast is celebrated on 17 October. [Editor's Note: St. Margaret Mary was canonized by Benedict XV in 1920. Her feast is now 16 October.]

 

[Galilee63]

I will shorten these as greatly as possible by Bishop Alexander Mileant (an Orthodox Bishop).

From the very first days after Her Dormition to the present time, the Most Holy Virgin has been giving succor to Christians. This belief is substantiated by accounts of Her appearances and especially by the multitude of miracles performed by Her icons. We shall mention here some of Her apparitions and miraculous icons.

Protection of the Holy Virgin. This feast was established in remembrance of Her apparition during the siege of Constantinople [Istanbul] in the middle of the 9th century. The Slavs [Variags], at that time pagans surrounded the city of Constantinople by sea and land with a huge army. Christians inside the city rushed to their churches with prayers for divine help. A beggar in the city, Saint Andrew the Fool-for-Christ's-sake, was in the church of Vlahern praying all night with many other Christians. In the fourth hour of the night, the Saint saw a majestic Woman, the Virgin Mary, coming forth above the royal gates (in the middle of the sanctuary) accompanied by John the Baptist, John the Theologian, and many saints, some preceding and some following Her, singing hymns and praying. Saint Andrew approached his pupil Epiphanius and asked if he also saw the Queen of the world. "I see Her and tremble," answered the latter. And while they looked, She stood above of the sanctuary and prayed for a long time.

Then the Virgin Mary removed Her veil and spread it over the church and the city. Saint Andrew told the people about this apparition of the Holy Virgin. Encouraged, they made a procession along the walls of the city and submerged in the sea an icon of the Virgin Mary. A few hours afterward a great storm arose and destroyed most of the enemy ships. The Slavs who survived retreated, and the town was saved. From that time many Slavs started to convert to Christianity. Saint Andrew by birth was also a Slav. Perhaps explains why Russians so greatly honor this appearance of the Mother of God to him and dedicate to this miracle the feast of the Protection of the Holy Virgin, which is celebrated each year on October 1/14.

The information that follows regarding other appearances of the Mother of God is drawn from foreign publications. Our Church has not as yet voiced its opinion on these events, and we cite them here simply as supplemental information.

Fatima, Portugal. On March 13, 1917, not long before the revolution in Russia, the Virgin Mary, surrounded by a radiance, appeared in Fatima, Portugal, to three shepherd children. For several months She continued to appear to the children, and at one of Her appearances five to eighteen thousand people convened from all parts of Portugal. An unforgettable miracle occurred when, after a torrential rain, unexpectedly there came an unusual light, and in an instant the people's soaked clothes became dry. The Virgin Mary was summoning the people to prayer and foretold the forthcoming conversion of Russia from godlessness to faith in God. The Roman Catholic Church later interpreted Her words as foretelling the conversion of Russia to Catholicism. However, this was not what the Virgin said. Now, as the Russian people turn back to God and to their Orthodox faith, we are witnessing the fulfillment of this prophecy.

Egypt. For more than a year from April 2, 1968, the Virgin Mary appeared in Zeitun, a suburb of Cairo, above a church dedicated to Her name. Her appearances, which usually occurred between midnight and five in the morning, attracted a multitude of worshipers. The Mother of God was surrounded by radiance as bright as the sun, and around Her there hovered white doves. Soon all of Egypt heard of the appearances of the Mother of God, and the government became concerned that these public gatherings at the site of Her appearances should proceed in an orderly fashion. The local papers wrote in Arabic about these apparitions of the Holy Virgin, and several press-conferences were held about them, during which people shared their impressions regarding what they had heard from Her. The Mother of God also visited individuals in the suburbs of Cairo, such as the Coptic patriarch who was skeptical of Her appearing to the people. During the appearances of the Mother of God there occurred many cures that were confirmed by local doctors.

The Washington Post on July 5th, 1968, wrote of additional appearances of the Theotokos over the Church of St. Damian, in the industrial area of Terra Gulaki, north of Cairo. The Virgin Mary was seen holding the infant Jesus in Her arms, and accompanying Her were several saints, among them St. Damian. As elsewhere, Her appearances were accompanied by many cures of incurable diseases: blindness, kidney and heart diseases and many others.

Medjugorje, Yugoslavia. From June of 1981 the Virgin Mary started to appear on a hill in Medjugorje. At these appearances there sometimes congregated as many as ten thousand people. Many saw Her surrounded by unearthly radiance. Then the appearances to the public stopped, and the Blessed Virgin began to appear regularly to six young people, speaking to them. Italian and other newspapers described these events, and Medjugorje became a place of constant pilgrimage by the faithful from all parts of the world. Our Lady slowly disclosed to the young people 10 mysteries, which they must impart to church representatives in due course. The Holy Virgin promised that on the third day after revealing Her last mystery She will leave a visible "sign" for the faithful. Representatives of the medical world and other highly-respectable people testify that the young people who have been seeing the Blessed Virgin were absolutely normal, and that their outward reactions to these appearances were natural. Often, the Virgin Mary, while weeping, told the young people of the necessity to establish peace on the earth: "Peace, peace! The earth will not be saved until peace is established over it. It will happen only when people find God. The Lord means life. Those who have sound belief in Him will attain life and peace… Christians have forgotten prayer and fasting." It is interesting to note that in Medjugorje, where atheism had predominated and where there were a lot of communist party members, most of the Medjugorjians became believers and renounced communism. Also in conjunction with the apparitions of the Mother of God in Medjugorje, there occurred many miraculous cures.

Lvov, Ukraine. At Easter 1985 in the town of Lvov, during the celebration of the Liturgy by the Metropolitan John at the Cathedral of the Holy Virgin Mary, in view of a great throng of faithful there suddenly appeared through the window pane a cloud as bright as a ray of sunlight. It slowly took the shape of a human form, and all acknowledged it to be the Holy Virgin. In a spiritual impulse, the people started to pray aloud and call upon Her for help. People standing outside also saw in the window the image of the Holy Virgin Mary and tried to enter and prayed aloud. The throng kept increasing as news of the miracle spread with the speed of lightning. All efforts of the militia to disperse those praying were in vain. People started to come from Kiev, the Pochayevskaya Lavra, Moscow, Tbilisi and other towns. The governor of Lvov requested that Moscow send some experts to investigate what was going on. The scholars began to argue that there were no miracles so that the people should disperse. Suddenly the Blessed Virgin spoke: "Pray; repent from your sins, since there is little time left …" After this She cured many cripples and sick. The vision of the Virgin Mary and the cures continued for three and a half weeks, and She spoke much on the salvation of mankind, as the people remained there day and night.

The Vladimirskaya Icon is one of the most ancient miraculous icons of the Mother of God. In the middle of the 5th century the Icon was transported from Jerusalem to Constantinople, and in the middle of the 12th century it was sent by the patriarch to Kiev, to the Grand Duke Yury Dolgoruky, and was placed in the Dievichy monastery in Vyshgorod. In 1155 Prince Andrew of Vyshgorod, when traveling to the North, took with him the miraculous Icon of the Blessed Virgin. On the way, there were held short divine services praising the Lord (Te Deums), and miracles occurred. On the banks of the Klyazma river the steeds carrying the Icon could not move. The prince called that place Bogolubov, that is, Beloved by God, and built there two stone churches, into one of which the Icon was placed. On September 21, 1160, the Icon was transferred into the church at Vladimir, and from then on it has been known as the "Vladimirskaya." Since 1395 the Icon has been located in the Uspensky Cathedral in Moscow, to the left of the royal gates. The Icon became famous due to many miracles performed. Before this Icon Russian tsars were anointed as rulers, and metropolitans were appointed. The feast day of the Icon is celebrated on August 26/September 8, as well as on May 21/June 3 in honor of the liberation of Moscow in 1521 from its bondage to the Crimean Khan.

The Icon of Kazan. In 1579, a nine-year-old girl by the name of Matrona, whose parents' house burned down during the 1579 fire in Kazan, saw in a dream the image of the Blessed Virgin Mary and heard a voice commanding her to retrieve a holy Icon hidden in the ashes of the burned house. The holy Icon was discovered wrapped in an old cloth under the stove, where it was buried, most likely during the rule of the Tartars when Christians were forced to conceal their faith. The holy Icon was triumphantly transported to the nearest church, the Church of St. Nicholas, and later to the Cathedral of the Annunciation, where it received renown for curing the blind. A copy was made of the Icon and sent to the tsar, Ivan the Terrible. In honor of its arrival, a special feast day was established on the July 8/21.

The Icon of Znamenia, which means "The Sign," also known as the Icon of Kursk. It was found on September 8, 1295, by a hunter at the root of a tree on the bank of the Tuskor River in the province of Kursk. When he took the Icon in his hands, a spring of water came from under the tree. The hunter built a chapel near the tree and placed the Icon therein. From that time the Icon began to perform many miracles. In 1383 the Tartars of the Crimea, devastating the province, cut the Icon into two parts and threw them into opposite directions. They took as prisoner the priest Bogolyub, who performed the services in the chapel. Having been redeemed by the envoys of the Grand Duke of Moscow, Bogolyub found the split pieces of the Icon, joined them, and miraculously they grew together. In 1597 the Icon was brought to Moscow by the will of Tsar Feodor Ioannovich. In view of the return of the holy relic, a monastery was founded which was given the name of the Root Hermitage. Since the time of Tsar Feodor Ioannovich, the Icon has been encased in a cypress board, with the portrayal of the Lord Sabaoth above and of Prophets on the sides.

In 1612 the Icon miraculously saved Kursk from being captured by the Poles. The grateful inhabitants built the monastery of Znamenie, into which the Icon was brought every year and stayed from the 12th of September until the Friday of the 9th week of Easter. The rest of the time it remained at the Hermitage.

On March 7, 1898 the Icon remained unharmed during an attempt by revolutionaries to blow it up in the cathedral of the Znamensky monastery. After midnight a bomb placed under the Icon went off with a terrible noise. Everything around was torn apart and scattered. Only the Icon remained intact. During the revolution the Icon was also stolen in April of 1918, but was miraculously found in a well several months later. Finally the Icon was taken from Russia in 1920 by Bishop Theophan of Kursk and placed in Holy Trinity Church in Belgrade, Yugoslavia. This Holy Image rendered great assistance when Belgrade was bombarded during the Second World War. Bombs never fell on the houses visited by the Icon, although they destroyed the surrounding areas. Presently the Icon resides in the Znamenia Cathedral in New York City, though from time to time it is taken to different temples of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad for adoration. Every year numerous healings continue to flow from this Holy Icon.

The Weeping Icons. During the past 100 to 150 years there have appeared several Icons of the Blessed Virgin Mary with flowing tears. These miraculous events most probably point to the grief the Virgin Mary feels toward mankind at the approach of the antichrist.

In February of 1854, in the Romanian Orthodox monastery of Sokol, one of the Icons of the Blessed Virgin Mary began to weep. This miracle coincided with the Crimean war in Russia and drew thousands of pilgrims daily. The weeping sometimes occurred every day, and sometimes at intervals of 2 to 3 days.

In March of 1960, a lithograph of the Icon of the Virgin Mary, known as that of the "Passion," that belonged to a Greek Orthodox family from Long Island, New York, began to weep. When the Icon was transported to the Cathedral of St. Paul, white doves hovered above the Icon. The paper on which the Icon was imprinted became wrinkled from the copious flow of the tears. At times the tears appeared bloody, and pious pilgrims pressed pieces of cotton to the Icon to take home and apply to the ill. Shortly afterward a lithograph of the Icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Iveron that belonged to another Greek Orthodox family in that same area also began to flow tears. These two weeping Icons drew a great number of praying people, and both local and foreign papers have described the great number of miracles emanating from them. One of the Icons has been examined by scientists in order to determine the origin of this fountain of tears, and scholars at the University of British Columbia confirmed the fact that the tears did flow but could not explain this from a scientific point of view (Orthodox Life, 1960, n. 8, p. 8).

On December 6, 1986, the Icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary on the altar screen in the Albanian Church of St. Nicholas the Complaisant, in Chicago, began to weep. This miracle has been attracting up to five thousand people to the church who wished to see this miraculous Icon with their own eyes. The weeping Icon was painted 23 years ago by a Manhattan painter by the name of Constantine Yussis. A specially gathered committee confirmed that "there could be no explanation of this enigma."

 

[Galilee63]

The Myrrh-Pouring Icon. An Orthodox Chilean by the name of Joseph (Jose), who had been living on Mount Athos since 1981, saw in a monastery a copy of the Iveron Icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary and wished to own it. At first he received a refusal; then unexpectedly the abbot handed the image over to him with the words: "Take it, this Icon must go with you!" Joseph brought the Icon to Montreal. On November 24, 1982, at 3 o'clock in the morning, Joseph's room was filled with a wondrous fragrance: on the surface of the Icon appeared drops of wondrously fragrant myrrh. The Archbishop Vitaly of Canada, now Metropolitan and Chief Hierarch of the Russian Church Abroad, offered to bring the Icon to the Russian cathedral in Montreal. Since then the Icon has Russian Orthodox churches in several countries. Sometimes during services attended by multitudes, the myrrh appeared not only on the icon itself, but on the outer surface of the glass, before the eyes of those praying, and even starting to drip on the floor, filling the church with a wondrous fragrance. It is remarkable that each year during Passion Week the Holy myrrh would stop flowing from the Icon and then resume its flow after Easter. The Icon was responsible for many wondrous cures.

Tragically, on October 31, 1997 while in Athens, Greece, Joseph was murdered and the icon mysteriously disappeared. A copy of this icon resides in St. John the Baptist Cathedral in Washington, DC.

It is impossible to enumerate here all the miraculous icons of the Blessed Virgin Mary. After the revolution in Russia many ancient icons began to restore themselves (become shining, as if newly painted). On occasion, in front of a person's eyes, old and dark icons have lightened as if new. There are thousands of such self-restored icons. The faithful saw in these miracles signs of the forthcoming spiritual revival in Russia.

Miracles and apparitions do not occur without cause. Most likely the miraculous apparitions of the Virgin Mary are meant to awaken our faith in God and a sense of repentance. Unfortunately, many in our day have become deaf to spiritual subjects, are turning their back to God, and choose a pagan way of life. But we, Orthodox Christians, should always remember our Heavenly Mother, our Intercessor at the Lord's Altar, and ask Her guidance and protection. O most holy Theotokos, save us! (end of an Orthodox Bishop's extract - Bishop Alexander Mileant.

 

[Galilee63]

Rarely do I visit the Medjugorje website - given praying takes up a fair bit of 24 hour periods - however - leading up to Jesus Christ our Saviour's Holy Birthday - I felt compelled this hour to do so - and for December there are two most beautiful Holy messages of our Blessed Virgin Mary's to share.

medjugorje.org

www.medjugorje.ws

www.medjugorje.com

Love and kindest wishes your sister in Jesus Christ our Saviour

 

[Albion]

To answer the question of the thread most directly...

Most of these "apparitions" are probably hoaxes or misperceptions. But even the ones that are the most widely accepted have been "doctored" by the church to make them more believable--which, in itself, casts doubt on their authenticity. The image of the woman who allegedly appeared at Fatima, for instance, was seen wearing a mini-skirt and stockings. Have you ever seen that represented in a picture? Or described in any account of the event? Of course not. She became the familiar figure in a long blue gown that everyone expects to see.

 

[pshun2404]

And the alleged Our Lady of Guadalupe was appearing as the goddess of the pagans for centuries before they ever heard of Mary...(see Santeria)

 

[Marvin Knox]

My struggle to believe that the simple gospel of Christ, as told in the Scriptures, was true was long and difficult.

I finally came to faith and trusted the finished work of Jesus Christ as my only hope of salvation.

The idea of adding the many layers of garbage that the Roman cult has heaped on that simple message simply boggles the mind. It is hard enough to believe God in these things let alone the teachings of unregenerate cultists.

That is true whether it is the crud put out by the Mormons 18 centuries later or whether it is the crud put out by the Roman cult over many centuries.

My hope and dreams for eternity rest securely in the finished work of Christ as my substitute before the judgment of God.

Anything else just hides the simple truth of the gospel.

There has been a Reformation in the church. There has been an enlightenment. We have the Scriptures. The truth can no longer be hidden from those who seek the truth.

Why anyone would want to return to fables and old religious men's ruminations is beyond anyone who shares the Spirit of God.

Maybe that is the problem we are seeing here in the forum. In many cases it seems to be that religious people lack the understanding that only the Holy Spirit of God can give.

Repent and receive Jesus Christ as your personal savior. Rest in the completed work of Christ at Calvary and leave the hopes of religion behind you. The promise of the Holy Spirit is for you as much as it was for the Apostle Peter.

 

[barryatlake]

Marvin Knox, you wrote: " The idea of adding the many layers of garbage that the Roman cult has heaped on that simple message simply boggles the mind. It is hard enough to believe God in these things let alone the teachings of unregenerate cultists."

1Tim 3: 15 - Church is pillar and foundation of truth. Care to show me from your bible where it tells you that only the" Holy Bible Alone" is necessary for Salvation ?

 

[Albion]

Why anyone would want to return to fables and old religious men's ruminations is beyond anyone who shares the Spirit of God.

Maybe that is the problem we are seeing here in the forum. In many cases it seems to be that religious people lack the understanding that only the Holy Spirit of God can give..

I've often wondered about that myself.

It seems to be the case that the more fabulous the legend--and the more enthusiastically the person testifies to his belief in it and engages in elaborate acts that show his commitment--the more he thinks he is showing himself to be a spiritual or devout person.

 

[barryatlake]

Maybe that is the problem we are seeing here in the forum. In many cases it seems to be that religious people lack the understanding that only the Holy Spirit of God can give..

 

[bbbbbbb]

Maybe that is the problem we are seeing here in the forum. In many cases it seems to be that religious people lack the understanding that only the Holy Spirit of God can give..

Indeed, religion does blind the mind of the unbeliever in Jesus Christ.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Marvin Knox

Why anyone would want to return to fables and old religious men's ruminations is beyond anyone who shares the Spirit of God.

Maybe that is the problem we are seeing here in the forum. In many cases it seems to be that religious people lack the understanding that only the Holy Spirit of God can give..
​

Maybe that is the problem we are seeing here in the forum. In many cases it seems to be that religious people lack the understanding that only the Holy Spirit of God can give..

How does one determine whether a Christian has the HS or not?


.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Marvin Knox, you wrote: " The idea of adding the many layers of garbage that the Roman cult has heaped on that simple message simply boggles the mind. It is hard enough to believe God in these things let alone the teachings of unregenerate cultists."

1Tim 3: 15 - Church is pillar and foundation of truth. Care to show me from your bible where it tells you that only the" Holy Bible Alone" is necessary for Salvation ?

I assume that you are referring to the "Roman" catholic church. The "catholic" church that Christ is building cannot be the "Roman catholic church". That is an oxymoron.

1 Peter 1:23-25
“You have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. For,
'All flesh is like grass,
And all its glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers,
And the flower falls off,
But the word of the Lord endures forever.'
[FONT=&quot]And this is the word which was preached to you.”[/FONT]

 

[Marvin Knox]

Let's not forget Romans 10:17
"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

AND

2 Timothy 3:15
"and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

The identity of the universal church and the means to inclusion in that church is rather like "Christianity 101".

The Roman "father's" interpretations of the Scriptures aren't even close to the truth.

By the way - "Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven" (Matt. 23:9).

 

[Galilee63]

If any of you had bothered to take time out of your lives to read Jesus Christ our Saviour's/God The Most High and The Holy Spirit's Prayers that Jesus in fact delivered to mankind through His Saints (priests) during each century, compare Jesus/God's Prayer content with His Holy Word/Holy Scriptures whilst praying Jesus/God's Prayers to Him in complete trust from your hearts as opposed to your minds only; then you would realise in your "Hearts" through The Holy Spirit the authenticity - because - while praying to Jesus Christ our Saviour God's most beautiful Holy Prayers - from your hearts, one is able to "receive" Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit into one's own heart more powerfully through God The Most High and His Loving Holy Wisdom, Guidance and Enlightenment - then you would never need to be querying Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's Holy appearances in the first place while Jesus was delivering God and The Blessed Virgin Mary's Holy Rosary, His Holy Prayer for mankind to pray for the Holy souls in purgatory through Saint Gertrude:
"Eternal FatherI offer You The Most Precious Blood of Your Divine Son Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy souls in purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, for those in my own home and within my own family, Amen".

"Eternal Father", I offer You The Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world" - by Jesus Christ our Saviour Himself to Saint Sister Faustina for hope of salvation to implore Jesus to receive His Divine Mercy.

There are many many Holy Prayers delivered by Jesus Himself in His Holy appearances to priests, nuns/sisters (His religious) each Century delivering all of God The Most High's Holy Prayers with requests for mankind to urgently pray His Holy Prayers that ALL reflect His Holy Word directly.

Have any non-Catholics here bothered to read the links on all of these threads that were posted with Jesus' Holy words and His Holy Prayers. If you had done, using common sense, one would realise that Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mary have in fact appeared to God's Saints of whom were His religious here on earth at the time while praying Jesus/God's Prayers to Him, particularly with trust in one's own heart of Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit; thereafter one would have "received" Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit into their hearts and known that these Prayers are the Prayers that Jesus Himself has delivered to mankind through His Saints ie religious

As I commenced many years ago while praying to Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit many of His Prayers from my heart.

 

[Marvin Knox]

How does one determine whether a Christian has the HS or not?

[FONT=&quot]John 16:13-15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 John 2:25-27[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]”[/FONT]

A good starting point would be to ask yourself whether you feel the need for an organization of men to teach you - including a "vicar" or substitute for the Spirit of Christ who should be residing within you.

Ask yourself whether the Holy Spirit is teaching you without the aid of any so called "fathers". Is the meaning of the Word of God clear to you? Is the gospel very simple to understand? Is the Spirit confirming to you that you are a child of God and that you have passed from death to life and will never come into condemnation?

Is future salvation simply a hope for you provided you live up to certain stipulations required by an organization of men? Or are you seated with Christ even now in the Heavenlies ruling and reigning with Him?

Start with those simple questions. Then work things out directly with God relying only on the Scriptures for truth.

 

[barryatlake]

So Marvin, the Holy Spirit , according to your Protestant way of thinking, has over 30,000 different conflicting interpretations, I don't think so. God is not the inventor of confusion , man is. Mere Protestant men invented the many interpretations found in Protestantism. Holy Spirit gives only One Interpretation.

 

[Marvin Knox]

So Marvin, the Holy Spirit , according to your Protestant way of thinking, has over 30,000 different conflicting interpretations, I don't think so. God is not the inventor of confusion , man is. Mere Protestant men invented the many interpretations found in Protestantism. Holy Spirit gives only One Interpretation.

[FONT=&quot]“For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.” 1 Corinthians 11:18-19
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is clearly how it will be in the church age. Again, this is rather basic stuff. It shouldn’t surprise you. It is easily seen with the aid of the Holy Spirit’s teaching.
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[FONT=&quot]Christ was very clear through parable and direct teaching that this age would be marked by a “mixture” of good and evil within our ranks. Wheat will be mixed with weeds for sure.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Not only that but a simple mustard seed will grow into a monstrous tree – so large that even the birds perch in the branches. Birds are a type of evil in the scriptures and there is no doubt in my mind that many of those birds will be Cardinals.
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[FONT=&quot]We cannot tell definitively who is who in the Kingdom of God. As Christ told us – we will have to let them grow together until the harvest to find out for sure.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]In the mean time we teach, rebuke and correct false teaching wherever we find it as we are commanded.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No doubt many Protestants will be lost and no doubt many Roman Catholics will be saved. We could likely even see some Mormons among the saved. But, as with the Catholics, it will be in spite of deceptions rather than because of them.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The Council of Trent and every Pope since has taught that those who base their salvation on simply believing the gospel as presented in the Scriptures, without adding the various ordinances of the Catholic Church are forever cursed.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I protest such evil teaching and that is why I am proudly called a Protestant. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you base your salvation on a personal apprehension of salvation between you and God, based on the “finished” work of Christ once for all at Calvary, you will be among the saved. If not – you will be as lost as Judas.
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[FONT=&quot]It’s not “rocket surgery” really.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I hope to see you in Heaven. Time will tell. [/FONT]