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"Many are called, but few are chosen"

SailorofLife

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For much of my life I have been searching for God. Even when I managed to shut this desire away and dived into the deep pool of sin to block it out; the desire to be with my creator always resurfaced. I was lucky to be called by God; He was persistent in grabbing my attention and He won me back. Not everyone is lucky though. So many people struggle to understand and believe the concept of God. As an ex-unbeliever; I understand where they are coming from and I understand how they just can't see it to be true. It's a shame.

Anyway, my point us; I have heard many Christians say that God knows who will follow Him and those that won't. I know for a fact many of my friends will never believe in God. Why has God not destined them to find Him like He has you and I? I find it very harsh. So God has created souls knowing that they will never go back to Him?
 

fm107

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God is not unfair, it is man's choice not to come back to him.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


God invites all into his Kingdom but many refuse the invitation. God will not force people to love him. He is kind enough to give us the choice.
 
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dogs4thewin

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God is not unfair, it is man's choice not to come back to him.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


God invites all into his Kingdom but many refuse the invitation. God will not force people to love him. He is kind enough to give us the choice.
This He gave each of us His creation and many other blessings ( including life itself).
 
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Peripatetic

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First of all, thanks for sharing your story! I always love to hear from those with a seed of faith that brought them back to God after a season of doubt and pain.

I know for a fact many of my friends will never believe in God.

I think you might be surprised. I'm sure many would have said the same of the Apostle Paul when he was persecuting Christians, or the thief on the cross who only became a believer on his last day of life. The truth is, we don't know whether God will save any other person or not.

Why has God not destined them to find Him like He has you and I? I find it very harsh. So God has created souls knowing that they will never go back to Him?

This is one of the hardest questions in all of Theology. When Paul addresses it in Romans 9, I think the message is clear: God knows what He is doing, so don't spend too much time questioning it.

Romans 9:19-21
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

This is one of those areas of trust, because we know God loves His children, and His grand plan for us is good.
 
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Bible2

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SailorofLife said in post 1:

I know for a fact many of my friends will never believe in God.

Don't ever give up on them, unless they die in unbelief. For because of the wonderful example of Saul the persecutor becoming Paul the apostle (1 Timothy 1:12-17), we should never give up on any unbelievers, no matter how hostile they are to Christians and the Christian faith. Instead, we should keep praying for them that God would miraculously save their souls. And because of the example of Saul becoming Paul, those who have persecuted Christians and reviled the Christian faith in the past, but now feel God's gifts of repentance and faith (2 Timothy 2:25, Ephesians 2:8) moving within them, shouldn't think that what they've done against Christians and the Christian faith (whether in word or deed) in the past disqualifies them from being able now to repent and ask God's forgiveness and receive his salvation through their faith in Jesus (Colossians 1:21-22).

SailorofLife said in post 1:

I know for a fact many of my friends will never believe in God.

If any of your friends do end up dying in unbelief, it will be because they weren't elect. The elect are those individuals who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12), and so it's impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they're shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

SailorofLife said in post 1:

Why has God not destined them to find Him like He has you and I?

God doesn't love everyone: he hates the nonelect (Romans 9:11-22). During their lifetime, God hardens the nonelect in their sinfulness instead of showing them his mercy (Romans 9:18), because he created them to be vessels of his wrath (Romans 9:20-22, Proverbs 16:4). They were of old ordained to condemnation (Jude 1:4). They were appointed to disobedience (1 Peter 2:8, Acts 2:23). But God never forces them or anyone else to commit sin. He never even tempts anyone to commit sin (James 1:13-15). All people will be justly held accountable for their deeds (Romans 2:6-8), for neither election nor nonelection takes away the free will of people.

God created nonelect people to be vessels of his wrath instead of vessels of his mercy so that he might eternally make known his wrath and power (Romans 9:21-22, Proverbs 16:4, Revelation 14:10-11). And God created elect people to be vessels of his mercy so that he might eternally make known his mercy, glory, and wisdom (Romans 9:23, Ephesians 3:10, Ephesians 1:8,11).

God wants these aspects of his nature to be made known to both humans and angels (Ephesians 3:10), neither of which group yet knows experientially the full extent of God's qualities and abilities (1 Corinthians 2:9; 1 Peter 1:12b). For example, the full extent of God's wrath won't be known to humans and angels until Satan and his fallen angels and all of unsaved humanity are cast into the eternal suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11), and saved humans and holy angels go forth from the city of New Jerusalem on the new earth to witness the suffering of the unsaved in the lake of fire (Isaiah 66:24), the eternal hell (Mark 9:45-46), and realize by seeing it not only the extent of God's wrath, but by it, by way of contrast, the extent of God's mercy toward them (Lamentations 3:22-23). Just as "up" can't be eternally known for what it is without the eternal coexistence of "down", so God's mercy can't be eternally known for what it is without the eternal coexistence of his wrath.

SailorofLife said in post 1:

I find it very harsh. So God has created souls knowing that they will never go back to Him?

As mere humans, we must be careful not to condemn the way that God himself has chosen to reveal all that he is (Romans 9:20-24): both a loving being (1 John 4:8, John 15:13, Matthew 26:28) and a vengeful being (Hebrews 12:29, Luke 12:49; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9). We mustn't say that it's evil for God not to save everyone and to send the unsaved into eternal punishment (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11). For by saying this we would be making humans more important than God and his wishes. And this is something that Satan causes people to do, just as Jesus at one point "said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men" (Matthew 16:23).

No matter how it may irk the Satanic pride of us humans, wanting to be important like God (Isaiah 14:12-14), so important that God would never even think of not saving all of us and casting some of us into hell forever (Isaiah 14:15, Revelation 20:10,15), we must always remember that it's God's right to do whatever he wants with his creatures (Romans 9:21-23), and that even all of humanity together is infinitesimal and worth less than nothing compared with God (Isaiah 40:17-18, Daniel 4:35). We must resist our Satanic, human pride (which we can unconsciously disguise with good-sounding words about God's love for us), and completely humble ourselves before God (James 4:7-10; 1 Peter 5:6-8), pleading that he might have mercy on us sinners (Luke 18:13-14).

Satan would love nothing more than to get us humans in our sinful pride to wrongly reject the God of the Bible (YHWH) as evil, so that we will end up in the lake of fire forever with Satan and his fallen angels (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:43-44). The future Antichrist, who will be empowered by Satan (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:4), will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And no doubt one of his chief blasphemies against YHWH will be that YHWH is an evil god. (This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ himself isn't in the flesh: 2 John 1:7.) During the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, the world will be deceived into rejecting YHWH and worshipping Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) instead (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9).

It's the ultimate proof of the humility of believers (James 4:10, Acts 20:19a, Matthew 23:12) for them to accept the facts of double predestination (Romans 9:11-24) and an eternal hell (Matthew 25:41,46) without rejecting YHWH as being evil for these things. For it means that believers have humbly accepted the fact that the wholly-good YHWH God (Deuteronomy 32:4; 1 John 1:5) is infinitely more important than even all of humanity together (Isaiah 40:17, Daniel 4:35).
 
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Bible2

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fm107 said in post 2:

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:4 means that God will have all manner of people believe in Jesus and be saved (Revelation 5:9b), not absolutely all people (Romans 9:11-24), just as, for example, John 3:26c means that all manner of people came to Jesus during his first-coming earthly ministry, not absolutely all people. The original Greek word (pas, G3956) translated as "all" can simply mean "all manner of" (e.g. Acts 10:12). It doesn't have to mean absolutely all.

1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean that absolutely all people can believe in Jesus, for other verses show that some people (the nonelect) can't (John 6:65, John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42). Similarly, 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean (as is sometimes claimed) that absolutely all people will be saved, for other verses show that most people won't be (Matthew 25:41,46, Matthew 13:38-42, Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).
 
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intojoy

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SailorofLife said:
For much of my life I have been searching for God. Even when I managed to shut this desire away and dived into the deep pool of sin to block it out; the desire to be with my creator always resurfaced. I was lucky to be called by God; He was persistent in grabbing my attention and He won me back. Not everyone is lucky though. So many people struggle to understand and believe the concept of God. As an ex-unbeliever; I understand where they are coming from and I understand how they just can't see it to be true. It's a shame.

Anyway, my point us; I have heard many Christians say that God knows who will follow Him and those that won't. I know for a fact many of my friends will never believe in God. Why has God not destined them to find Him like He has you and I? I find it very harsh. So God has created souls knowing that they will never go back to Him?

If I go downtown and I find a group of homeless people (bums) and I give five out of ten of them cash am I being harsh?
 
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intojoy

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SailorofLife said:
For much of my life I have been searching for God. Even when I managed to shut this desire away and dived into the deep pool of sin to block it out; the desire to be with my creator always resurfaced. I was lucky to be called by God; He was persistent in grabbing my attention and He won me back. Not everyone is lucky though. So many people struggle to understand and believe the concept of God. As an ex-unbeliever; I understand where they are coming from and I understand how they just can't see it to be true. It's a shame.

Anyway, my point us; I have heard many Christians say that God knows who will follow Him and those that won't. I know for a fact many of my friends will never believe in God. Why has God not destined them to find Him like He has you and I? I find it very harsh. So God has created souls knowing that they will never go back to Him?

The bible says none of us would seek God

as it is written, "T here is none righteous, not even one; T here is none who understands, T here is none who seeks for G od; A ll have turned aside, together they have become useless; T here is none who does good, T here is not even one." (Romans 3:10-12 NASB)

What that means is this, God chose to provide salvation for all men even tho none of us would seek him or call on him. In choosing to make man redeemable God provided Divine Enablement for His Elect so that the elect would have a desire to seek him. That desire you had is what God installed in you to cause you to exercise your will and believe the gospel. If God did not provide enablement men would not use their will to seek him and respond to Him in faith because there is no such thing as unlimited free will. We can will to jump off a building but we can't will to fly, its not in our nature to fly. And the bible says that left to himself man will not seek God, not even one will. Is it fair for some to be elect and not others? That's a question from the creation's perspective based in human emotions. Just like the example of the bums :) When I gave money to five out of ten, I was not being unfair to the others, I didn't have to give money to any of them. You and I and the rest of humanity have but one proper attitude towards what God did to save His elect - the very fact that God chose to save anyone is the evidence of the out working of the love of God and the grace of God. The way to reach your friends is by defining the gospel message to them. Because the elect only get saved by hearing the gospel and then believing it. The gospel is very simple, we are saved by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing.
I'm available to answer questions and am open to criticism.



image-4178942035.jpg

Here's me 13 days after willing myself to fly off a building and dropping 5 stories on 12-12-11
There's no such thing as unlimited free will
 
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Harry3142

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SailorofLife-

Whether we choose to accept God's gift of salvation or not is totally up to us. God has seen fit to do all that is necessary for our salvation, and he has shown us clearly where that salvation is to be found. But it is our own decision as to whether we will accept that salvation, or instead permit our own arrogance and/or base desires to lead us onto the path that leads to destruction.

The one who chooses whether we will have eternal life or whether we will suffer damnation isn't God, nor is it Satan. It's we ourselves who determine our own fate. That's what it 'boils down to'. We are told what the means of salvation involves, and we are given the opportunity to accept that salvation. But whether we accept it or not is totally our decision to make. God is not a 'high-pressure salesman'.
 
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Albion

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Yeah but not everyone is spiritually aware like you and I. Lucifer's lies are strong and it's tragic to see people so misguided like this. I too was misguided but deep down I knew I was always destined to be saved. It seems some people are just pre-destined not to believe.


Exactly so. We can see that all humans are not equally interested in morality or God or salvation. We cannot explain this. All we can do is recognize that none of us is deserving of eternal life but God, of his great mercy, has deigned to give it to some of us anyway.

Who exactly is in that category we cannot know, although there are hints that we observe. What we can say is that God is in charge and knows what he's doing.
 
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Emmy

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Dear SailorofLife. God wants us all, but few are chosen. Why? We have free will, and we can say No, or Not yet. Here, our Prayers start working, and we have much time to pray for our loved-ones, and our neighbour, too.
Jesus tells a Lawyer in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out: " this is the foundation of all the Law." ( it also applies to the present Day of Grace) " but few are chosen can also mean: few will be chosen immediately, but many will come later. To love our neighbour also includes
praying for them, because it is Love for our neighbour, as Jesus told us to do.
 
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Mabbus

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It's a very interesting topic and can't really wrap my head round why I have had a certain splinter in my soul and God was trying to get my attention on many occasions and I was on the search for things spiritual for many years.

Now I have been saved by asking him into my life and I suppose I was doing it out of fear; fear of dying, fear of God and maybe my motives for being saved were not out Love, but I believe; I always have in a way.

So I don't know why things happen the way they do, all I know is I get up each day and wrestle with flesh and try to give up everything I think I know and submit. Hard to do, but I trust in him and have faith in his ways. I'm small potatoes and don't claim to understand why he would call me, but he did.

If I think about it too much, I wouldn't be able to get anything done. I just praise his name and do the best I can and will endure to the end and hope he extends me favor and grace. If he doesn't and turns me away for my wickedness, then so be it, I deserve everything that's coming my way.

Sorry that's getting off topic I know. Blessings
 
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