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Manischewitz Kosher 4 Gentiles?!?
- Thread starter Lulav
- Start date
Jerushabelle
Well-Known Member
Did Peter bring a salad to Cornelius' house? He couldn't even use the house salad dressing by that reasoning! I don't mean to demean with these comments but I can't think of anything more wrong than asking to bring a salad to a dinner invitation, showing up with said salad and not eating any of the food offerings of the host. This compulsion for a Messianic to be sooooo correct regarding dietary law is not observant of the freedom found in Yeshua. In fact, it goes against Yeshua and it goes against God's gift to us in Yeshua.
What are we called to do?...we are called to be His disciples, to reach out to those who do not know Him, to be His representatives. Yeshua told His disciples, "If a town welcomes you, eat whatever is set before you and heal the sick." He also said when He sent out His disciples, "Don't take along any money, or a traveler's bag, or even an extra pair of sandals." I pretty much hear Yeshua adding that salad to His list especially since He said, "When you enter a town, don't move around from home to home. Stay in one place, eating and drinking what they provide you." How can we be Yeshua's representatives to the world when we are so consumed with dietary correctness? It's not salvific. Yeshua said "You are not defiled by what you eat but by what you say and do." And if Yeshua said that, we will not be confronted by God as to our failure to keep Kosher.
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pat34lee
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- Sep 13, 2011
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When I eat at someone else's house, I just make sure that what I eat has no pork or obvious unclean items in it. I don't mind telling them that I don't eat pork, clams or shellfish. Someone with allergies or other health related problems would obviously have to be more careful.
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When I eat out, it is the same thing, and I have no problem enlightening them as to the reasons for my decisions. Don't make a big deal out of it. It isn't a battle unless you make it one.
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Jerushabelle
Well-Known Member
Sister, the conversation has already been started.
Perhaps I should reiterate that I don't disagree with Torah observance. I've gone on record here and elsewhere at CF to that effect. We are wrong, however, to allow dietary observance to be all consuming to the point that we put stumbling blocks before each other, a wall of separation between the Brothers and Sisters and become offensive to those whom we have been called to witness to but most importantly, to the point that we become disobedient to Yeshua who, at all times, was/is obedient to the Father.
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Jerushabelle
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Food allergies aren't what's being discussed here although it would certainly be understandable to anyone if host food were declined on that basis.
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Compromising God's commands is not doing anyone a favor, neither the people you are being friendly with, nor yourself or your respect for God and His wishes.
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Jerushabelle
Well-Known Member
So Peter was wrong, Yeshua was wrong. Huh, who knew!? And if Yeshua was wrong, then.....oh, dear!
We either have freedom in Yeshua or we don't. His blood covers our sin or it doesn't.
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You must not understand your freedoms then.. because they are found in Him not outside of Him..
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Jerushabelle
Well-Known Member
If I am in Yeshua, paying attention to His words and example, there is no way I can be outside of Him.
Yeshua is clear as recorded in Matthew 15:
"Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'" and again in Luke 10 when He told the seventy-two to eat whatever people placed before them to eat.
If I want to be obedient to God's dietary law, I have the freedom to be. I am not justified by observing the law but by faith in Yeshua. If I have faith in Yeshua, how am I outside of Him? And if I have faith in Yeshua, why would I rebuild what He has destroyed? The dietary law is no longer a salvific issue. There is no point is tying myself or anyone else up in a knot to determine if the labeling of a Kosher product is correct or whether the food I am offered at a social engagement is Kosher or not. What is of paramount importance is whether I reflect the love of God and Yeshua at that social engagement thereby testifying to that love.
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unclean [God never declared clean] animal pieces were never listed as something sinful and there was never a declaration to sacrifice because you consumed it.. it was always considered an abomination in God's eyes. If you want to stick an animal [abomination] article in your mouth as your demonstration of living like Yeshua.... hmmm...are you causing not only you but your brethren to stubble?
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Jerushabelle
Well-Known Member
Acts 10:9-16 "The next day as Cornelius' messangers were nearing the city, Peter went up to the flat roof to pray. It was about noon, and he was hungry. But while lunch was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw the sky open, and something like a large sheet was let down by its four corners. In the sheet were all sorts of animals, reptiles and birds. Then a voice said to him, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat them.' 'Never, Lord,' Peter declared. 'I have never in all my life eaten anything forbidden by our Jewish laws.' The voice spoke again, 'If God says something is acceptable, don't say it isn't.' This same vision was repeated three times. Then the sheet was pulled up again to heaven."
The Greek translation has "What God calls clean, you must not call unclean."
Your statement "If you want to stick an animal [abomination] article in your mouth as your demonstration of living like Yeshua.... hmmm...are you causing not only you but your brethren to stubble?" implies vegetarianism the only acceptable diet. I don't think you mean that, do you?
God's repetitivness in the issue is a pretty strong indication that this needs to be paid heed to. Jonah in the belly for three days. Yeshua in the tomb for three days. Peter denying Yeshua and the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowing three times.........repetition on God's part is significant.
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Pharisee laws made unclean hands that were not rubbed together in the manner prescribed by the Pharisees as unclean, even though rubbing them together doesn't make them clean in our eyes today. Yeshua is saying this kind of unclean [food touch by Pharisee understanding of unclean as in dirty hands] doesn't make the food unclean. IN other words our stomach can deal with a little dirt every once in a while... it is not such a big thing that the Pharisees were making it out to be.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
The sheet vision was given because God was wanting Peter to understand that no man is unclean. It had nothing to do with unclean animal being made clean. Re-read the passages, it tells you in very easy and plain language what the vision was all about.
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Jerushabelle
Well-Known Member
You're reducing Yeshua's message to it being only about hand washing.
Consider His words:
"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean'." Yeshua isn't just speaking about some dirt on our hands. Additionally, He instructed seventy-two people to eat whatever was given them to eat. Do you think He didn't know what people those seventy-two would be witnessing to?
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Jerushabelle
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No. God didn't put examples of people in the sheet. He put examples of food on the sheet and told Peter to "kill and eat". While I understand what you are trying to say, it doesn't mesh with "kill and eat". Additionally, what did Peter then go and do?...he ate non-Kosher in Cornelius' house. That, too, does not mesh with your interpretation.
Dietary law is not mandatory. It's not salvific. Obedience to dietary law is honoring of God but in Yeshua, we don't need to be overly consumed by the Jewish tradition of it and we certainly aren't under rabbinical dietary additives.
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Context? Matt.15 only refers to unwashed hands not to kosher and not kosher food, does it not(15:20)? The 72 were sent to Jews, no? So, the food reference is to quality and amount, not kosher or not kosher. Why do I think that? Christians are united in the dogma that Jesus was perfect when it came to the Torah observance. That's the line, ain't it?
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