Manifestions of the Holy Spirit?

[Migdala]

This has been bothering me for awhile now.....

I have seen videos, etc. of the Holy Spirit "manifesting" in people in churches, causing them to vomit, bark like a dog, etc. etc.....

So these people are worshiping God (not an idol or another "god" of another religion) when these things happen......

I could see things like this happening if someone was worshiping a false god of another religion....but why do things like that happen when someone is worshiping OUR God?

Is this truly evidence of the Holy Spirit?

If not, then what is it?

I go to "Spirit filled" churches myself, and have not seen anything like the things I mentioned, but I have seen videos, etc. What I have seen, and experienced myself, have been things like being slain in the Spirit, or "drunk" in the Spirit....none of the more bizarre things mentioned above.

I have not been able to find anything Scriptural to support this, and it has bothered me...I know that we are to "test" the spirits, so I guess this is what I'm doing. lol

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

causing them to vomit, bark like a dog, etc. etc.....

I do not think that the things you mentioned are biblical, they are either people faking it or a demonic manifestation. They do nothing to encourage the church or the individual and have no basis in the Spirit's moving.

 

[Mixolydian]

I have seen videos, etc. of the Holy Spirit "manifesting" in people in churches, causing them to vomit, bark like a dog, etc. etc.....

Yikes. Think I'll skip on the vomit videos, even if it is of a deliverance. I'd be pretty uncomfortable to be around barking too.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Yikes. Think I'll skip on the vomit videos, even if it is of a deliverance. I'd be pretty uncomfortable to be around barking too.

That is true, I have heard of vomiting as a response to a demon being cast out of someone. But barking or clucking like a chicken for that matter are only manifestations that I have seen in false revivals.

 

[Migdala]

That is true, I have heard of vomiting as a response to a demon being cast out of someone. But barking or clucking like a chicken for that matter are only manifestations that I have seen in false revivals.

Ok...false revivals. That's where I'm confused. These people are worshiping God. Not Buddha, Allah, some voodoo god or whatever. They are worshiping God....so how does it end up being a false revival?

 

[Migdala]

I do not think that the things you mentioned are biblical, they are either people faking it or a demonic manifestation. They do nothing to encourage the church or the individual and have no basis in the Spirit's moving.

Yes, I have heard of vomiting, coughing, etc. happening when a demon exits....I'm unsure about the quacking like a duck or any other strange behavior, although there is the spirit of Leviathon, that causes a person to crawl on the floor like a snake. I have seen videos of this too, and have actually talked to someone who saw it happen in their church when a demon was cast out!

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Ok...false revivals. That's where I'm confused. These people are worshiping God. Not Buddha, Allah, some voodoo god or whatever. They are worshiping God....so how does it end up being a false revival?

I go to a pentecostal church too (Brownsville Assembly of God in FL) and I have seen many manifestations in the Spirit, I grew up in revival, millions got saved in the revival services at our church in the 90's. I remember there being different manifestations that I did not understand, and still don't. I do know though looking back that it was from God and that it was a controlled environment where the Holy Spirit was allowed to work, this is what makes a true revival from a false one.

I think we have to be sensible and discerning in these things, barking like a dog is a distraction and as I said before does nothing to build up the church. I go back to my childhood at Brownsville revival, I saw some strange things there (but nothing like that), there were times when witches would come and sit in the back and start chanting and making strange movements and crazy stuff like that, our pastor and ushers would rebuke them in Jesus name and they would stop, or sometimes even security would have to be called. It was a controlled environment, in a charismatic atmosphere it must be this way for the sake of the church.

Just because there is a manifestation of the supernatural does not mean it is from God, we must back it up with scripture. That is what the leaders did and still do at Brownsville, they would discern prophecy and sometimes if there was a interpretation and speaking in tongues if they discerned that it was false they would stop it. Some revivals do not discern these and other manifestations and just allow anything to happen, these are what I call "false".

 

[wayfaring man]

Jesus said we will be known by the kind of fruit we bear.

And it appears the only gifts of The Spirit which are also a fruit of The Spirit - is faith and the goodness/righteousness/truth inherent therein.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. <-----> Matthew 7:15-20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. <-----> Galatians 5:22+23

(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) <-----> Ephesians 5:9

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: <-----> 1st Corinthians 12:8-10

For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. <-----> Romans 5:17

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. <-----> Galatians 5:5

I have given them thy word..... thy word is truth. <---> John 17:14+17

Fruit develops steadily over time, while "miraculous/supernatural manifestations" tend to occur suddenly in a brief manner.

Wherefore the bearing of good fruit is a more reliable indicator of Christ's Saving Presence, than are various "momentary manifestations", (some of which may be genuine gifts of The Spirit, while others are not).

It may be that some of the more bizarre "manifestations" involve psychoactive drugs and/or alcohol. [Peyote and alcohol abuse, etc. commonly lead to vomiting.]

May The Lord Be Our Guide !

wm

 

[Migdala]

Here's a very interesting "comparison" between the manifestations of the Holy Spirit compared to other religions. All I know is that I am worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua). And if He wants me to do something bizarre, then I'll do it....and I just hope that I would be able to tell if the spirit trying to get me to do something strange is from God or not.

Hindu Gurus and Pentecostal preachers are identical!!!

And here are the "bizarre" videos I was talking about.

http://www.bible.ca/tongues-audio-video-documentation.htm#tacf

Oh, and btw...I am Pentecostal myself, so please do not think I am saying anything at all against this denomination. I'm not at all-I'm just very interested in "testing the Spirits", and how to exactly go about doing that.

 

[saturnne]

This is a pretty interesting video:
YouTube - Internal workings of the Holy Spirit

 

[heron]

It is also important to remember that each individual in a meeting is coming from a different place.

There are well-meaning believers who spiritually compete, and do what they believe will make them look like they are full of God's Spirit. Accentuating, mirroring, pumping up the volume.

there were times when witches would come and sit in the back and start chanting and making strange movements and crazy stuff like that

Who knows, maybe that explains a lot more than we'd imagine! People who are trying to make the whole meeting look bad.

I have heard of vomiting, coughing, etc. happening when a demon exits

I can think of a few other times where people involved in spiritual warfare end up with strange manifestations. Intercessors often say they feel physical symptoms that give them a sense of what others are feeling.

Sometimes God gives odd instructions to do things in conscious expression of determination -- stomping, dancing, shouting, etc. for spiritual warfare. It might appear that the person is under an influence, but they are carrying out very rational actions.

This is very different from clucking, but in combination it can look chaotic. I honestly expect the wacky manifestations are from forces delighting in making God's people look silly.

Just because there is a manifestation of the supernatural does not mean it is from God, we must back it up with scripture.

If a person chose whether to let the clucking happen, resist it, or find scriptures first to back it up... I would think there was no question that God would consider scriptures the priority over experiencing something.

There are OT passages where people "were prophesying" ... and I'd guess they were doing more than declaring God's words.

Numbers 11:27
1 Samuel 10:5
1 Samuel 19:20
1 Kings 22:10 more directed
2 Chronicles 18:9 maybe chanting
Acts 19:6

I was in a home meeting once, and as the meeting closed some of us were talking with a person who had a grief situation they wanted prayer over. Out in the kitchen a few people were raving about their trip to a meeting with holy laughter. They nudged each other like "let's try it," and within seconds a few of them were on the floor laughing.

It got so loud and distracting that we couldn't hear the person grieving. I wouldn't say it was demonic, but careless. Treating God's gifts as toys to be played with. Immature, maybe. I didn't want to stop them, because I felt there was some worth to letting go of our tight control.

Holy laughter seemed to catch the church at a time when it was tightly wound. People were stressed in their jobs, their homes, and were not taking time for release or emotional healing. I remember watching a preacher on TV talking very sternly with his wife, being very driven, and I prayed that God would soften that situation. The next thing I knew, he was caught up in holy laughter, and quite embarrassed by it.

There is danger is in telling each other "God's Spirit does whatever He wants, and you need to just go with it" -- because that opens the door for us to think everything is of God.

If it is God we want to please, and we are not sure whether something is of God, then I'm sure He will get over it if we resist phenomena for the sake of clinging to scriptures.

 

[Migdala]

I've had the "holy laughter" happen to me before. I was at a prayer meeting, and we were all taking turns praying for each other. We prayed for the Holy Spirit to touch us and that we could be closer to Him. All of a sudden, me and two other ladies could not walk-it was like we were drunk. Then we could not stop laughing. Me and one of the other ladies fell on the floor laughing so hard. I had been really upset and depressed over something, and they told me it was the Lord touching me with holy laughter to make me happier for awhile.

 

[Mixolydian]

I've had the "holy laughter" happen to me before. I was at a prayer meeting, and we were all taking turns praying for each other. We prayed for the Holy Spirit to touch us and that we could be closer to Him. All of a sudden, me and two other ladies could not walk-it was like we were drunk. Then we could not stop laughing. Me and one of the other ladies fell on the floor laughing so hard. I had been really upset and depressed over something, and they told me it was the Lord touching me with holy laughter to make me happier for awhile.

What did you think about it? Did it help you over your depression at the time?

I've been in a pentecostal church for 15 years, been to many revival meetings seen all of the usual manifestations, but I've never spoken in tongues, been slain in the Spirit, been overcome by the Spirit (don't like the term drunk) or shook, laughed or leaped. Maybe I just have the "annointing to stand" ha. I believe those can be genuine manifestations of the Holy Spirit moving in the believer, so they've always fascinated me. Good thread.

 

[Uncle Floyd]

I could see things like this happening if someone was worshiping a false god of another religion....but why do things like that happen when someone is worshiping OUR God?

Interestingly, the Bible makes no distinction between worshipping God wrongly and worshipping a false God. For instance, google the phrases "strange fire" and "regulatory principle of worship" and you'll find dozens of explanations for this.

Is this truly evidence of the Holy Spirit?

If not, then what is it?

It's people who have been worked up into an emotional state by charletains and, because they're more interested in experiences than they are the Word of God, they will follow anything and believe that it's from God.

I'm unsure about the quacking like a duck or any other strange behavior, although there is the spirit of Leviathon, that causes a person to crawl on the floor like a snake.

This is a good example of what I'm talking about. The Bible says nothing about a "spirit of Leviathon" or people having a "spirit of alcohol" or a "spirit of lust" and yet, there are many thousands of people who believe in these things just because some guy in a shiny suit and big hair told them so.

I think wayfaring man said it best. In the Bible, the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is always either a change in our character or the empowering for ministry, never bizzare behavior.

One man barks like a dog, clucks like a chicken, speaks a gibberish language, falls down, or laughs uncontrollably. Another man has become patient, kind, humble, has a thirst for God's Word, and is growing in holiness. Which one has the Holy Spirit will be obvious if you've read your Bible.

 

[Migdala]

What did you think about it? Did it help you over your depression at the time?

I've been in a pentecostal church for 15 years, been to many revival meetings seen all of the usual manifestations, but I've never spoken in tongues, been slain in the Spirit, been overcome by the Spirit (don't like the term drunk) or shook, laughed or leaped. Maybe I just have the "annointing to stand" ha. I believe those can be genuine manifestations of the Holy Spirit moving in the believer, so they've always fascinated me. Good thread.

Yes, it did help me with the depression. A lot. But at the same time, it felt a bit weird because I knew that the gifts of the Spirit are supposed to edify the church, and I didn't see how it did-although it was very fun!

I've been slain in the Spirit a lot-a couple of times were at my own house when I was alone! I've never spoken in tongues, and that bothered me for a long time, because I've gone to a lot of churches that say a person is not saved unless they speak in tongues-I used to cry and cry over it.

I've "shook" a lot, in my hands, and all over my body when I've been slain in the Spirit. Not sure what that is all about, other than just not being able to be so close in God's Presence maybe? Like our bodies just can't take it or something. I've danced in the Spirit a lot-like I couldn't stop dancing....that was great!

I don't know....but I know that for awhile, I had to stop going to churches that were so Spirit filled, because I was "disappointed" if I did not get slain in the Spirit or some other manifestation happened at church. And that really bothered me because I was looking for the gift, rather than the giver. I had to repent, because that much have really grieved God's Spirit....I should have been focused on Jesus and what He did for us, rather than going to church to see what would happen to ME.

 

[heron]

so close in God's Presence maybe? Like our bodies just can't take it or something.

Do you think that's like the Holy of Holies and Ark of the Covenant -- that God wants to remind us how powerful He really is? Or that healing was going on?

I should have been focused on Jesus and what He did for us, rather than going to church to see what would happen to ME.

This is a big issue -- whenever I started to think God had things down to a formula, He would show me how creative He really was, by introducing a different tone each service, or dealing with me on something unexpected.

I think that's a point that critics forget -- the Holy Spirit heals and convicts individuals during these services. There is very little orchestrated oddness. A worship leader might say "everyone clap," lead people in repentance, ask for scriptures read, or suggest dancing. But there are no "everyone howl like a wolf" instructions.
Also...

When worship is so demonstrative, it attracts attention and inevitably people start rating each other for spirituality.

Then people start feeling like they are not getting due respect, or are misunderstood... that is where I see many of the emotions directed. Nobody wants to do that, of course, but good people start finding themselves caught up in competition. This is a day-to-day response, and not usually a full-blown church-wide problem.

I've been slain in the Spirit a lot-a couple of times were at my own house when I was alone!

Lol, where were those men in white suits waiting to catch you when you needed them! (Where have all the good men gone.)

I had been really upset and depressed over something, and they told me it was the Lord touching me with holy laughter to make me happier for awhile.

I see a lot of benefit in the holy laughter. People are very tense and driven these days. They don't take sabbath breaks, they stress during vacations, and they don't sit still with their families. Laughter relieves stress.

The only times I have felt like I was about to be slain in the Spirit, I was not being prayed over -- I was just in the same building where worship was intense.

Speaking in tongues is just a matter of prayer for me, disciplined and controlled. I've had friends who described it as less controlled. When God directs me in this, I usually see or sense phrases or tones I need to say next.

Do you miss the charismatic services? I've been in a more reserved setting for a while, and I do miss the intensity.

 

[znr]

I've just about only attended very Charismatic churces, until recently. I even remember being young and wide eyed and sitting right smack up front during the crazy Vineyard service where people were roaring like lions.

You could say I have a bad attitude toward them now. It's not that I don't believe some of it is from and of God. Who am I to make that call? just a mere little human. It's not that I am no longer open to it, but it would really take a major something to get my attention. Someone else pointed out that people sometimes want to "compete" to be used of God, well I've just ended up feeling left out by all this competition. And bitter, actually. You know, I just feel like if we don't focus first and foremost on relationships and getting to really know each other then what is the point of all of it? I really don't get it.

A lot of people sitting in church are hurting and need connection and intimacy, their needs are very basic. They need to be known, to be cared for, to be loved and in some cases they need their bills paid. I don't get why some churches are treating the gifts like toys first, and tending to their flocks second. I'm bitter about it.

 

[heron]

A lot of people sitting in church are hurting and need connection and intimacy, their needs are very basic. They need to be known, to be cared for, to be loved and in some cases they need their bills paid.

Yeah.

The reasoning often given, is that if we worship God, then He will meet our needs faster than we could by helping each other. But that is not scriptural, at all.

I can see how that extreme memory would be hard to erase.

What I valued about Charismatic churches, was the emphasis on spiritual warfare. I tend to forget, when I'm not surrounded by people who are talking about it. Then I find myself in an oppressed situation, and wonder how to climb out of the pit. I always come back to recall that I do know people who can help pull me out of it. And I know how to stand against the oppression myself, when I choose to.

That gives me a broader perspective of the gifts of the Body of Christ. We think about the microcosm of a fellowship having individuals with specialities, but whole churches do too. We need each other, and shouldn't be afraid to lean on a whole church temporarily for their spiritual strengths, applied to a situation.

 

[Forealzchola]

I have had encounters with the :holy laughter: and I do not believe it is from God....its a distraction to the service if someone is laughing hysterically to the point where they cant preach or others cant hear or get distracted from hearing the Word of God...which is the enemies' goal.

 

[znr]

Yeah.

The reasoning often given, is that if we worship God, then He will meet our needs faster than we could by helping each other. But that is not scriptural, at all.

I can see how that extreme memory would be hard to erase.

What I valued about Charismatic churches, was the emphasis on spiritual warfare. I tend to forget, when I'm not surrounded by people who are talking about it. Then I find myself in an oppressed situation, and wonder how to climb out of the pit. I always come back to recall that I do know people who can help pull me out of it. And I know how to stand against the oppression myself, when I choose to.

That gives me a broader perspective of the gifts of the Body of Christ. We think about the microcosm of a fellowship having individuals with specialities, but whole churches do too. We need each other, and shouldn't be afraid to lean on a whole church temporarily for their spiritual strengths, applied to a situation.

I really remember one particular service at the (Anahiem) vineyard (where the barking like dogs and roaring like lions was going on). It was as if a gooey substance had permeated the whole building. It was so thick you could literally touch it; it was tangible. I knew it to be the holy spirit. I expect it was sort of like what the atmosphere is made up of in heaven - pure Holy spirit. I have no doubt it was all real. And people were gathered for these services specifically to interact in it. What I have always noticed, and I could be really wrong, well I guess my real beef withit all is that it always seems like people interact vertically and not as much horizontally (with each other). And anyway, I miss John Wimber. It was sad, when he died, a lot of the church fragmented. I guess was shocked when I came back after 10 years by how many people were gone, split up. I wanted things to stay the same and for people to be like a family - something I didn't have.

I was talking to a friend the other day and she was telling me about this man who was prophesizing over people. And cited an example. I have to paraphrase what I remember her saying.

Her "He even cited a few numbers, it was amazing"
Me "What do you mean?"
Her "Only God and that person knew the significance of those numbers"
Me (SIGH) "Ok"
Her "I know you don't believe in all of this"
Me "I do, but ..."
Her "Well you're welcome to come back again"
Me "But it doesn't feel very intimate and I need more community; I went to a calvary chapel women's bible study and it felt more normal"

That pretty much sums up my experience with charasimatic churches. I don't want to "come back". I my church family. The sort of family where real healing takes place. Maybe I need to not give up some these poeple. I realize that it's not their fault that I was in so much pain. A lot of people are in a lot of pain.

I really used to think that some special healing would take place in all of these strong visitations, that maybe God would heal my screwed up mind and heart, but it never happened. I grew resentful because everyone was focused on God but it seemed like no one was really noticing that I was in so much pain, and no one wanted to touch each other besides.

Now I know what I didn't know then. God is in the small every day things. His word makes it pretty clear what His intention is for my heart to be healed and I realize now that I don't need all those visitations and "moves of the holy spirit" to be healed. I only need to know who I am in Christ and be known by people who love me and who I love. It's very simple. I think. It would be much nicer to experience all these holy roller moments with people who are my church family, and not with people whose names I don't even know. The first church I ever attended was like that. Everyone knew each other. We were a family. That was important.

Recently a man from the church I just left offered his hand of friendship. It's jus simple. We meet for coffee and talk about God. A lot of healing has taken place. It's in the small little details that God moves and comforts. I don't need all that powerful holy roller stuff anymore. I'm not shutting off God but I'm trying to turn on to God, if that makes sense. And having a new friend who is there in a very real way is like having someone there to intercede for me - and vice versa. I just want my family.

End of rant!