Man no better than Bacteria?

[dad]

In these quotes of Pianka's speech the point that is being missed is that he is speaking from a mainly ecological and not a purely evolutionary standpoint.

We are the ones screwing up the planet not lizards or bacteria: that's why he picks on humans.

Although he was in favour of an airborne mutation to ebola he was saying that this mutation would probably arise naturally, not that someone should unleash it.

I don't think it would be legal to come out and say that. But his heart's in the right place there.

"During a question-and-answer sessions, the audience laughed approvingly when Pianka offered the bird flu as another vehicle toward achieving his goal"


. . Do you really want to defend this guy?

"He then showed solutions for reducing the world's population in the form of a slide depicting the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse," writes Mims. "War and famine would not do, he explained. Instead, disease offered the most efficient and fastest way to kill the billions that must soon die if the population crisis is to be solved.

The fact is that we are overpopulating the planet. At some point the resources will run dry and a lot of people are going to die.

Not if we looked to God. He will take care of us. He can do it. He can make a lot more room here, and He has a big universe as well.

In fact you can already see this happening in the poorest parts of Africa and/or where despotic regimes have control over the resources.

A point to remember about the reception of the speech is that Dr. Pianka is a self-proclaimed "doomsday ecologist". He is also a good public speaker and seems to be the anti-Hovind according to his students(google Dr Pianka biology 304).

Yes, and his views are certainly AntiChrist.

This would bias the type of audience to show up to a speech given by him in the same way a Hovind lecture would be attended by people who want to hear what he has to say.

Right, and his little ideas are shunned, I suppose?

"Mims notes five hours later, the Texas Academy of Science presented Pianka with a plaque in recognition of his being named 2006 Distinguished Texas Scientist. "

To finish I would like to say that I entirely disagree with Dr Pianka's approach to an answer to overpopulation. Although evolution doesn't advocate a moral system, a social species neccesitates certain behavioural rules that are enforced by society in general and ingrained in the cultural consciousness. Therefore religion is not strictly necessary to provide a moral standard.

So, like Borg, or ants, or termites, we ought to march to the tune of....what was that again? Evo drums, not beat by this lizard man?

 

[Dr.GH]

It was no surprise to me that the OP based on those funny people at "WingNutDaily" had got screwed up again. I present a key quote from Prof. Eric R. Pianka,

If humans do not control their own population (and we seem unwilling and unable to do so), then other forces will certainly act to control our population. The four horseman of the apocalypse (conquest, war, famine, and death) are all candidates. Most likely, lethal virulent microbes like HIV and Ebola zaire will set limits on the growth of human populations. HIV, by allowing infected hosts to survive years while they spread the virus and infect new hosts, has already become a pandemic, but it will be years before it decimates the human population. Although Ebola kills 9 out of 10 people, outbreaks have so far been unable to become epidemics because they are currently spread only by direct physical contact with infected blood. However, a closely related virus that kills monkeys, Ebola reston, is airborne, and it is only a matter of time until Ebola zaire evolves the capacity to be airborne.

The WND article is based on some bloviations by Forrest Mims published on a website he controls. Anti-Darwinist Engineer Mims seems likely to have lost his ability as an observer and objective reporter.

Pianka has most likely made an obvious conclusion, from the point of view of all nearly other species on our planet, the extinction of Homo sapiens would be a great boon. The question that is more important is why that should be true?

The incompetent reading of Scripture typical of some far-right Christians has much to answer for. For example,

My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to occupy the land until Jesus Returns." --James Watt to the Wall Street Journal as quoted in "James Watt & the Puritan Ethic." By Colman McCarthy. Washington Post, May 24, 1981. PAGE L5

Watt used this to justify clear cutting forrests, strip mining and elimination of environmental protection laws. He ignored the species extinctions and massive human deaths that his policies, and Republican policies generally are causing today and which will increase in the future.

 

[Dr.GH]

I just have to add that the creationist pseudoscientists and their dupes are killing more people than ever, and will kill more than ever as the direct consequence of their perverted denial of biological reality.

 

[Hydra009]

Right, so our physical bodies are 70% water, with a healthy dose of bacteria, and a bit of air, minerals, and the odd virus. "We" are more than the sum of our physical parts. If I drive a car, I am not, say, a honda. I am a being inside that assemblege of parts. Our body is an assemblege of parts as well. The classification of men as animals is something bestowed by those who do not understand we are more than water, and bacteria!

You're looking at it from a philosophical/religious perspective, almost comically different than what I'm talking about. I'm talking about composition on a purely physical level.

It's akin to me saying that humans are made of atoms and someone retorting, "I ain't no stinking atom!" Too funny. Analogously, on a biological level, humans are animals (in the sense that we're multicellular organisms who are classified in the kingdom Animalia) and creationists retort, "I ain't no stinking animal!" Oi! Talk about missing the point.

 

[Dr.GH]

Another good discussion of this issue, with an independent observer's discussion is Now in the “Do As We Say, Not As We Do” Dept.

Dad, quit reading BS, you get confused enough already

 

[dad]

I just have to add that the creationist pseudoscientists and their dupes are killing more people than ever, and will kill more than ever as the direct consequence of their perverted denial of biological reality.

Who is killing people here? What the hec are you talking about? The only biological reality is that we are creations of God. A loving God that doesn't want us killing, actually. Talk about perverted ideas.

 

[dad]

....
Pianka has most likely made an obvious conclusion, from the point of view of all nearly other species on our planet, the extinction of Homo sapiens would be a great boon.

There are many obvious conclusions. I could say, 'If all cows were dead, there would be less methane gas affecting the ozone' or 'If all animals and people and life on earth were dead, there would be less space junk sent up in our atmosphere'. Of course with 90% less humans a lot would be different. Point is, sounds like this guy has more than just a bug up his bonnet.

The incompetent reading of Scripture typical of some far-right Christians has much to answer for. For example, Watt used this to justify clear cutting forrests, strip mining and elimination of environmental protection laws.

Where did this Watt guy come from? Who is he? Doesn't sound like the brightest light on the block.

He ignored the species extinctions and massive human deaths that his policies, and Republican policies generally are causing today and which will increase in the future.

The oil oriented US government insider wink and nod boys may have other reasons than pleasing Christ, in helping wreck the world, I'd guess.

 

[dad]

You're looking at it from a philosophical/religious perspective, almost comically different than what I'm talking about. I'm talking about composition on a purely physical level.

That is not man. That is the body of man, just a part of the package. It's like looking at Adam, formed of the clay ground, before God breathed the breath of life into him. Very PO.

It's akin to me saying that humans are made of atoms and someone retorting, "I ain't no stinking atom!" Too funny.

We are more that one of our parts. And it is well known that the spirit is one of those parts as well.

Analogously, on a biological level, humans are animals (in the sense that we're multicellular organisms who are classified in the kingdom Animalia) and creationists retort, "I ain't no stinking animal!" Oi! Talk about missing the point.

Yes, astounding you miss it so. The PO classification of men is about as meaningful as saying we are dirt.

 

[Jamza]

I think Watt is James Watt; who apparently justified polluting the planet because God would fix it. The great thing about life on Earth is that however it originally came about it will last in spite of what anyone does.

 

[dad]

I think Watt is James Watt; who apparently justified polluting the planet because God would fix it. The great thing about life on Earth is that however it originally came about it will last in spite of what anyone does.

OK, thanks. Unfortunately, He will have to fix it, and make it new. No worries there. But we are to care for the earth, of course, not destroy it. Just because the house we live in on earth here is slated for demolition, no reason not to take care of it till the bulldozers come.

 

[Dr.GH]

Dad, Take a nice nap, or a walk, or just quietly read the Bible. You are not helping.

 

[dad]

Dad, Take a nice nap, or a walk, or just quietly read the Bible. You are not helping.

Helping what? Your case?

The guy went ahead and published his obituary on a site. Interesting.

"Pianka spent nearly 10 years of his life living in the desert, often alone, and he liked to think of himself as a hermit and a desert rat. He spent 6 full years down under and at times, he was at one with the bushfly. "


One of his bison, is named lucifer, it mentions there as well.
"Lucifer stands almost 6 feet tall at the shoulder... "


http://www.christianforums.com/
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/%7Evaranus/obit.html

Apparently, the interview was not supposed to be public, so likely we wouldn't find it unless someone was right there to jot it down.
"
Something curious occurred a minute before Pianka began speaking. An official of the Academy approached a video camera operator at the front of the auditorium and engaged him in animated conversation. The camera operator did not look pleased as he pointed the lens of the big camera to the ceiling and slowly walked away.
This curious incident came to mind a few minutes later when Professor Pianka began his speech by explaining that the general public is not yet ready to hear what he was about to tell us. "

"
One of Pianka's earliest points was a condemnation of anthropocentrism, or the idea that humankind occupies a privileged position in the Universe. He told a story about how a neighbor asked him what good the lizards are that he studies. He answered, “What good are you?”
Pianka hammered his point home by exclaiming, “We're no better than bacteria!”
"He warned that quick steps must be taken to restore the planet before it's too late.
Saving the Earth with Ebola
Professor Pianka said the Earth as we know it will not survive without drastic measures. Then, and without presenting any data to justify this number, he asserted that the only feasible solution to saving the Earth is to reduce the population to 10 percent of the present number. "

"AIDS is not an efficient killer, he explained, because it is too slow. His favorite candidate for eliminating 90 percent of the world's population is airborne Ebola ( Ebola Reston ), because it is both highly lethal and it kills in days, instead of years"

"He spoke glowingly of the police state in China that enforces their one-child policy. He said, "Smarter people have fewer kids." He said those who don't have a conscience about the Earth will inherit the Earth, "...because those who care make fewer babies and those that didn't care made more babies."
http://www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_2006/2006-04-07/feature1p/index.html

 

[JohnR7]

Like wild beasts is not the same as being wild beasts.

The passage is not saying that people are like the wild beasts. It is saying that they shall be destroyed the same as the wild beasts. It is evolutionists that say there is no difference between man and the animals.

If we are born again and take on the divine nature of God, then we can become the sons of God. No animal has ever been called a son.

 

[JohnR7]

This I guess is your way to reconcile the bible with evidence.

I guess that is pretty much it. I do not believe there is any conflict between science and the Bible. Although sometimes it is very difficult to reconcil the two.

 

[JohnR7]

And actually, yes, you (and every other living human being) are about 70% water.

By volume or by weight?

 

[dad]

I guess that is pretty much it. I do not believe there is any conflict between science and the Bible. Although sometimes it is very difficult to reconcil the two.

Me either, in fact, they harmonize pefectly.