Man evolved equal?

[PsychoSarah]

If God did not grant us all with a soul created in His image, then we are the mere product of random evolution (I'm not saying that evolution did or did not happen by the way). But if evolution did occur AND there is no God who grants us a soul, then there is no sense in saying that we are all equal as people. The thought that random, unethical, cold, and uncaring biochemical chance produced a bunch of beings that are completely equal to each other is absurd.

Discuss

Pushing a bit into racism here. We are all the same species, and while individual people might be "better" than others as far as intelligence, physical ability, etc., the few genetic differences consistent with people from different regional backgrounds don't label any group as inherently universally superior.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'm talking about atheists who believe that man got here through the random chance of evolution and simultaneously hold the belief that we are all equal. Such beliefs exist amongst certain individuals and I am interested in the philosophy of the psychology of these individuals thought process on the matter. Whether they are right or not is another thing. Of course, I do not think they are right. But that we got here through evolution and nothing more is clearly the predominant belief amongst atheists. And I assume that most of these people would state, at least publicly, that we are all equal. So I was wanting to explore this thought process which I find to be philosophically inconsistent.

Reversal, what about god creating humans suggests we are all equal more so than evolutionary theory does? Especially considering that god shows clear favoritism towards certain groups of people.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I get a little bitter when I show someone that those times were not uniformly sexist and the answer of that person is that he believes that they were uniformly sexist.

Yeah, there were societies where men and women were equals, and even a few where women were the dominant gender.

 

[JGG]

If God did not grant us all with a soul created in His image, then we are the mere product of random evolution (I'm not saying that evolution did or did not happen by the way). But if evolution did occur AND there is no God who grants us a soul, then there is no sense in saying that we are all equal as people. The thought that random, unethical, cold, and uncaring biochemical chance produced a bunch of beings that are completely equal to each other is absurd.

Discuss

Perhaps explain what you mean by equal. We would not expect everybody to be equal at, say, playing tennis. Some would be excellent players, some would be horrible. So, we are not all equal in ability, intelligence, creativity, etc...

Frankly, I would reverse the question and ask how theists believe that all people are equal. In every religion, God favours the believers. Theism is built on "we're better than them."

 

[evoeth]

Frankly, I would reverse the question and ask how theists believe that all people are equal.

Enlightenment ideals.

 

[JGG]

Enlightenment ideals.

"And what are those?" He asks trying to advance the conversation.

I would suggest that enlightenment does not hold to traditional theism. Enlightenment sits more on philosophy than religion. It's not that I disagree, but even today we hear about how some are in the world but not of the world. Despite enlightenment, theism still preaches superiority.

 

[variant]

If God did not grant us all with a soul created in His image, then we are the mere product of random evolution (I'm not saying that evolution did or did not happen by the way). But if evolution did occur AND there is no God who grants us a soul, then there is no sense in saying that we are all equal as people. The thought that random, unethical, cold, and uncaring biochemical chance produced a bunch of beings that are completely equal to each other is absurd.

Discuss

People aren't equal, they are all different in terms of skill, talent drive ect.

We treat them equally under the law because (we think) that it is the best way to operate a society.

The idea of legal equality doesn't really come from religion either, if you look back a few centuries the idea that people had special god given rights over each other was pretty common.

So, for instance, the serf in the 1400's doesn't ask silly questions about how God made him equal to his lord.

 

[variant]

"And what are those?" He asks trying to advance the conversation.

I would suggest that enlightenment does not hold to traditional theism. Enlightenment sits more on philosophy than religion. It's not that I disagree, but even today we hear about how some are in the world but not of the world. Despite enlightenment, theism still preaches superiority.

The enlightenment was a reaction to how some religious people treated other religious people very badly, so, yes it is a philosophical reaction to inequality within religion rather than a religious idea.

 

[Golden Yak]

Hi Golden. Thanks for your response. I haven't really read the thoughts of top biologists on this matter so that's interesting that you say that.

I haven't either. But in general, when you press any biologist on human biology you'll be told that, in terms of physical ability, humans come in a wide variety and so could not be regarded as equal in that sense.

That's not what society uses as a rational for equality. Factors such as physical prowess, mental acuity, health, gender, etc. are simply not considered - ideally neither are factors like wealth, social standing, age, and so forth.

 

[evoeth]

Despite enlightenment, theism still preaches superiority.

Yes it does. And what else can it do? When you start with the assumption of ultimate moral authority, it is hard to preach anything but superiority.

 

[JGG]

Yes it does. And what else can it do? When you start with the assumption of ultimate moral authority, it is hard to preach anything but superiority.

Add to that chosen and preferred people, ranked class systems...

 

[durangodawood]

If God did not grant us all with a soul created in His image, then we are the mere product of random evolution (I'm not saying that evolution did or did not happen by the way). But if evolution did occur AND there is no God who grants us a soul, then there is no sense in saying that we are all equal as people. The thought that random, unethical, cold, and uncaring biochemical chance produced a bunch of beings that are completely equal to each other is absurd.

Discuss

I've never heard ANYONE claim we are all biologically the same, equal in every capacity.

Equality is a matter of law and possibly spirit... but not a matter of biology.

 

[Gene2memE]

Is this a reference to the US Declaration of Independence - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

That's a document referring to governance/legal issues - all humans are to be treated the same by the government/before the law.

If we were all created equal in a biological sense, the world would be very boring indeed.

 

[poolerboy0077]

Yes I agree

Maybe I should have stated it differently.

What my real question is is this...how could one be atheist and still truly believe that we are all equal? Being a theist...one believes that we are all made equal in the image of God. That is a reason for truly believing that we are equal. I don't see that atheists have any REAL reason to believe that we are all equal. They may say that they do in order to benefit society or to appear kind and gentle...but deep down they would have no grounds to believe that we all just accidently evolved into true equals of one another.

As I know there are atheists who truly believe that all people are equal, I am simply wondering how it is that the believe this

I don't know what you mean by "real" reason. We treat others with mutual respect and dignity not because it's based on biology or some mythical spirit, but because of our ability for empathy and compassion, which in turn lead us to seek human flourishing. How would these be any less "real?"

 

[Dave Ellis]

In response to the OP... People are not equal, and they never will be.

For example, I will never be able to play hockey like Wayne Gretzky, and I'll never be able to play basketball like Michael Jordan.

There are things I do better than other people, and there are things that people will do better than me. Some people have a wide variety of skills, and some don't.

That's never going to change either.

However, when the law is concerned, everyone should be treated as if they were equal. To do otherwise would make it impossible to set up a proper justice system.

 

[Nithavela]

Well, after returning to this thread, I think I can safely say that a lot more people need to get a better breakfast.

 

[Gadarene]

If God did not grant us all with a soul created in His image, then we are the mere product of random evolution (I'm not saying that evolution did or did not happen by the way). But if evolution did occur AND there is no God who grants us a soul, then there is no sense in saying that we are all equal as people. The thought that random, unethical, cold, and uncaring biochemical chance produced a bunch of beings that are completely equal to each other is absurd.

Errrr.....why?

We kinda are pretty equal to each other physiologically and mentally.

There's no point in appealing to nature for morals, but this is a poor example to use.

 

[Redemptions]

Well, after returning to this thread, I think I can safely say that a lot more people need to get a better breakfast.

Everybody seems perfectly happy to me

Group hug

 

[KCfromNC]

If God did not grant us all with a soul created in His image, then we are the mere product of random evolution (I'm not saying that evolution did or did not happen by the way). But if evolution did occur AND there is no God who grants us a soul, then there is no sense in saying that we are all equal as people. The thought that random, unethical, cold, and uncaring biochemical chance produced a bunch of beings that are completely equal to each other is absurd.

Who believes that everyone is completely equal to everyone else? Obviously we're not. You're confusing a belief that everyone is a biological clone of everyone else with accepting a political system where all people are given the same protections and opportunities. Evolution says nothing about the latter since evolution is part of biology, not political science.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Everybody seems perfectly happy to me

Group hug

Not with you, you sound racist for bringing this up, and you haven't addressed how you think religion treats people as more equal than evolutionary theory does.