Making a Decision For Jesus

[SQLservant]

Hello all.

I've had this question arise in my mind recently, and would like to know a bit more on the topic.

Decisional regeneration, the idea that someone is saved when they ask Jesus Christ into their hearts, or accept him as their personal Lord and Savior, or however else it is phrased. Where does that idea come from? Does God create faith in us to do so, or do we already have it ourselves? How does he create it? While we're at it, what do we mean by "faith" in the first place?

I would prefer defenses of this doctrine so I can better understand it, but all answers are welcome!

 

[PaxThroughX]

A lot of it is out of a traditional Orthodox type mind, rather than what is actually said in Scripture. However, the idea of asking for Jesus in your heart and your saved deal comes from Romans 10:9-13 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

[Jack Terrence]

Decisional regeneration, the idea that someone is saved when they ask Jesus Christ into their hearts, or accept him as their personal Lord and Savior, or however else it is phrased. Where does that idea come from?

The idea comes from the arrogant hearts of men.

 

[Skala]

Hello all.

I've had this question arise in my mind recently, and would like to know a bit more on the topic.



Decisional regeneration, the idea that someone is saved when they ask Jesus Christ into their hearts,

1) Decisional regeneration is the byproduct of synergistic soteriology. (if you don't know what synergism vs monergism is, see here: Monergism vs. Synergism by John Hendryx

Decisional regeneration here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/decisional-regeneration.html

I wholeheartedly disagree with synergism and decisional regeneration. The Bible never describes regeneration or being born again as the result of anything we do. Instead, it constantly reminds us that it is God's work, the result of His grace. In fact, Jesus outright told us that regeneration cannot be controlled, influenced, or otherwise directed by man. (John 3). He likened it to the wind that you see the effects of it, but you cannot control it, He said when the Spirit is regenerating people (ie, converting them and changing their hearts of stone and opening their blind spiritual eyes), "it goes where it pleases..." (again, read the beginning of John 3)

The proof of this (that regeneration cannot be controlled by man) is found in the very name itself (being born again). Nobody controls their first birth. Likewise, nobody controls their second birth. Other analogies the Bible uses for regeneration present this same concept/truth. The Bible describes regeneration as creation - nobody creates themselves, so it must be something God does for us. It also describes regeneration

2) Also, the Bible never, not a single time, says to "Invite Jesus into your heart". I have no idea where this language or idea came from, but it wasn't from the Bible. It's just a cute little catchphrase that really doesn't mean anything. The Bible urges us to abandon all self confidence and instead, put our full trust in Jesus, the savior, alone. The phrase "invite Jesus into your heart" doesn't even come close to describing what the Bible and the gospel commands us to do (repent of sins and put our faith (trust) in the Savior)

or accept him as their personal Lord and Savior, or however else it is phrased.

Jesus doesn't need our acceptance. We need his. Again, "accept him as lord and savior" was a phrase invented by men that, again, doesn't even come close to capturing how the Bible describes conversion and what our response to the gospel should be.

Where does that idea come from?

Not the bible, that's for sure.

Does God create faith in us to do so, or do we already have it ourselves?

Faith is a gift from God. (Eph 2:8-9, Ph 1:29, and more) He grants it to us, and then we willingly exercise that faith. That's how God saves us. Another way you could describe this is that God regenerates us (ie, causes us to be born again, spiritually resurrected when we were dead (Eph 2), and the natural result is that we have faith in Jesus.

Life is to breathing as regeneration is to faith.

It is the natural business of the person who is alive to breath, and likewise, it is the natural response of the person who is spiritually alive to have faith in Christ.

By fallen nature, we are unregenerate (ie, spiritually dead - Ephesians 2:1-3) and unbelievers. But out of sheer mercy and grace, God intervenes and saves us by regenerating us (ie making us alive, spiritually). (Ephesians 2:4-5)

If God hadn't done this for us, we would still be unbelievers today, headed for the hell we deserve.

In fact, the only reason anyone at all is saved and going to heaven is because God does this. That is why salvation is by grace.

how does he create it?

Regeneration.
Study regeneration here: Regeneration by J.I.Packer

and here:
http://www.theopedia.com/Regeneration

While we're at it, what do we mean by "faith" in the first place?

Biblical faith means "trust". It doesn't refer to merely blindly believing something without evidence. For example, faith in Santa Claus (or "believing that Santa exists") is not the same kind of faith as faith in Jesus Christ. Biblical faith is more like faith in a parachute. You jump out of the plane and you have faith that the parachute will save your life. So your faith here is literally that you are putting all of your trust in something else. When we have faith in Jesus, we are trusting that His death, burial, and resurrection has and will save us.

This passage nicely sums up the true description of salvation:

Titus 3:3ff
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Break this passage down:

1) We were sinners and unbelievers
2) But God appeared and saved us, not because of anything we did, but because of his mercy
3) How did he do this? By the washing of rebirth and renewal by the holy spirit <--that's regeneration

We are saved by the sovereign, free, regenerating grace of God. Not by a decision.

Hope I helped!

 

[Ignatius21]

A lot of it is out of a traditional Orthodox type mind, rather than what is actually said in Scripture.

As to where the idea actually comes from, as best I ever understood it, it really arose out of the religious fervor of the 18th century revivals, both in England and America. Traveling circuit preachers, drawing huge throngs of disaffected churchgoers, stirring the emotions and driving them toward making decisions. Eventually evolved into the "altar call" type of evangelism that took over the majority of American evangelical religion.

I can't think of a single thing about it that qualifies as "Orthodox" whether "Big O" or otherwise.

 

[SQLservant]

A lot of it is out of a traditional Orthodox type mind, rather than what is actually said in Scripture. However, the idea of asking for Jesus in your heart and your saved deal comes from Romans 10:9-13

So, in this perspective, this passage is taken to be more authoritative than others on the subject, like being born of water and the Spirit in John 3, "whoever believes and is baptized whall be saved" in the Great Commission, "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins" in the Acts, the washing of regeneration and seal of the Spirit in the epistle quoted by another user, or "baptism now saves you" in 2 Peter? This passage undoes those, so to speak, or overrides them?

Also, the picture in your signature is totally brutal. I love Metalocalypse.

 

[elman]

Hello all.

I've had this question arise in my mind recently, and would like to know a bit more on the topic.

Decisional regeneration, the idea that someone is saved when they ask Jesus Christ into their hearts, or accept him as their personal Lord and Savior, or however else it is phrased. Where does that idea come from? Does God create faith in us to do so, or do we already have it ourselves? How does he create it? While we're at it, what do we mean by "faith" in the first place?

I would prefer defenses of this doctrine so I can better understand it, but all answers are welcome!

I don't see the doctrine as defendable. Jesus indicated someone is saved when they act like the Good Samaritan and help someone in need. Ezekiel called it turning from wickedness-being unloving to righteousness-being loving.
Chapter 18. Jesus described this also in the story or parable of the last Judgment in Matt 25. Eternal life is clearly connected to our decisions to love others. Paul said faith without love is worthless in 1 Cor 13:2 and John said those who claim to be a child of God are liars if they do not love others in First John. James said to know to do good and to do it not is sin and he added faith without works is dead. Peter said God is no respector of persons and will accept men from every nation who fear Him and do the right thing. Acts 10:34-35

 

[hedrick]

Boy, soteriology is a minefield. People mean different things by "saved," "regenerated," and pretty much every word involved.

Paul says we are justified by faith. Faith unites us to Christ, and through that union we die to sin and are born to new life. "Asking Christ into your heart" is a peculiarly evangelical way of speaking, but I would think the reality it's pointing to in coming to faith, grasping Christ and thus being united with Christ. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that we are justified when that happens.

The biggest issues I see are the assumptions in some circles that this happens in a specific moment, and that this is entirely our decision.

On the moment: Some people do feel that they were converted in one particular, often emotional episode. But for others it happened over time, and for many, they don't remember a time when they didn't think of themselves as one of Christ's people.

On decision: For someone who remembers coming to faith at a specific time, it's reasonable to think of it as a decision. Faith is a commitment, and for many people it is a decision to believe. But there are two issues with the term (1) for many it doesn't happen at once discrete moment, and (2) many Christians feel more like God chose them than that they chose God. The Reformed tradition certainly takes that view.

"Regeneration" turns out to have a couple of different meanings. In my own Reformed tradition, it's actually used in two different ways. The first meaning is when God converts us and grafts us into Christ. The second meaning is the life-long process of coming into conformity with Christ. It's the first kind of regeneration that is associated with coming to faith.

So anyway, for someone who came to faith at a specific time, who feels it was more their decision than something God did, and who uses "regeneration" to mean coming to faith rather than the ongoing growth as Christians, speaking of decisional regeneration probably makes sense.

Since most of those assumptions aren't true for me, I'd rather just talk about justification by faith.

 

[Jack Terrence]

I don't see the doctrine as defendable. Jesus indicated someone is saved when they act like the Good Samaritan and help someone in need.

This is a FALSE gospel. Jesus did NOT say that the Samaritan was saved by his deed. He said that he was showing himself to be a good neighbor.

Jesus was NOT dealing with the question of salvation. The question was "What is my neighbor?"

You have in effect made the death of Christ unnecessary.

 

[intojoy]

This is a FALSE gospel. Jesus did NOT say that the Samaritan was saved by his deed. He said that he was showing himself to be a good neighbor.

Jesus was NOT dealing with the question of salvation. The question was "What is my neighbor?"

You have in effect made the death of Christ unnecessary.

Liver shot

 

[intojoy]

Hello all.

I've had this question arise in my mind recently, and would like to know a bit more on the topic.

Decisional regeneration, the idea that someone is saved when they ask Jesus Christ into their hearts, or accept him as their personal Lord and Savior, or however else it is phrased. Where does that idea come from? Does God create faith in us to do so, or do we already have it ourselves? How does he create it? While we're at it, what do we mean by "faith" in the first place?

I would prefer defenses of this doctrine so I can better understand it, but all answers are welcome!

The elect person (predestined ones) are not saved until they believe. Faith is part of the salvation gift but not the gift, the gift is the blood of the Messiah and the imputation of His righteousness.
I think

 

[intojoy]

A lot of it is out of a traditional Orthodox type mind, rather than what is actually said in Scripture. However, the idea of asking for Jesus in your heart and your saved deal comes from Romans 10:9-13 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Amen

 

[sdowney717]

So, in this perspective, this passage is taken to be more authoritative than others on the subject, like being born of water and the Spirit in John 3, "whoever believes and is baptized whall be saved" in the Great Commission, "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins" in the Acts, the washing of regeneration and seal of the Spirit in the epistle quoted by another user, or "baptism now saves you" in 2 Peter? This passage undoes those, so to speak, or overrides them?

Also, the picture in your signature is totally brutal. I love Metalocalypse.

Well what does Jesus say about the baptism that He does?
Acts 1

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, &#8220;which,&#8221; He said, &#8220;you have heard from Me;

5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

&#8221;

There s a whole thread of fun on water baptism in Christian apologetics forum.

Now I have nothing against water baptism.
But it is by God's GRACE you are saved by FAITH, and this is not of yourselves being God's gift to you. Not of works lest any man should boast that he did something to earn the faith, the salvation, the blessing of God in his life.

This saving faith is God's gift to ALL that are His children, whether they get water baptised or not.

And it is a work of the Holy Spirit when a person believes and is born again, not a work of th church, a work of man, the will of the flesh, IT is the will of GOD when they are saved. God's command is eternal life.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God&#8212;

13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband&#8217;s will, but born of God.

 

[sdowney717]

12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

On our receiving Him, remember that Jesus says

John 10

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

One of the characteristics of His sheep is they know the voice of the ONE Shepherd who calls and talks to them. They hear His voice, they flee away from the voice of a stranger.

Another characteristic is they hear Him and therefore they follow Him where He leads them. Shepherds lead their flocks. He is the good shepherd who lays down His life for His sheep.

Isaiah 53

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they[a] made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.

 

[PaxThroughX]

So, in this perspective, this passage is taken to be more authoritative than others on the subject, like being born of water and the Spirit in John 3, "whoever believes and is baptized whall be saved" in the Great Commission, "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins" in the Acts, the washing of regeneration and seal of the Spirit in the epistle quoted by another user, or "baptism now saves you" in 2 Peter? This passage undoes those, so to speak, or overrides them?

Also, the picture in your signature is totally brutal. I love Metalocalypse.

You are saved by accepting Yeshua as your Saviour. If this choice is life changing through a spirtual sense, then shouldn't it be the same with baptism. If baptism is a exclamation of acceptance and change, then that means you recieved holy water. Taken the bible completely literal is scary.

Ikr?!? Glad to see another fan.

 

[Skala]

Boy, soteriology is a minefield. People mean different things by "saved," "regenerated," and pretty much every word involved.

I agree! I think words need to be carefully defined. The church at large is to blame for this muddying of the waters. I have a feeling that nearer the time of the reformation, words had specific meanings and those definitions were known to the majority of believers.

Then again, the Bible itself uses the word "saved" to refer to many things, too, which can cause further confusion.

That is why we must study to show ourselves approved

 

[intojoy]

Hello all.

I've had this question arise in my mind recently, and would like to know a bit more on the topic.

Decisional regeneration, the idea that someone is saved when they ask Jesus Christ into their hearts, or accept him as their personal Lord and Savior, or however else it is phrased. Where does that idea come from? Does God create faith in us to do so, or do we already have it ourselves? How does he create it? While we're at it, what do we mean by "faith" in the first place?

I would prefer defenses of this doctrine so I can better understand it, but all answers are welcome!

People don't get saved because they ask Jesus into their hearts like some magic spell. The very moment you believe the gospel you are saved instantaneously, before you confess with your mouth, you're heart believes unto salvation.

Nothing happens outside of God's will. Either by decree or by his permissive will, God is sovereign over everything that happens. The purpose of the atonement was to provide salvation to man and not to force salvation on man. Election is part of but not "the" gift of salvation. Because man is totally depraved, left to himself, he does not seek after God. Part of the gift of salvation is God's enablement of the elect to respond in faith to His plan of salvation. Those who reject the gospel are condemned for their unbelief and will suffer the judgment of the Lake of Fire. These people were not predestined to hell, no one was created to be damned, the lost were simply passed over and not elected to be predestined to the image of Christ.

 

[sdowney717]

The Salvation of All Men​

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. - 1 Timothy 2:3-5.

John Calvin's sermon on this scripture.

Calvin - Sermons

HE certainly understood what this scripture meant. The whole counsel of God is what we should use when considering what is meant by scripture, otherwise you may be reading something that is not in the text, an understanding that is perceived according to your own way of thinking.
Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation. The scripture is inspired by and of God and it is He who gives the wisdom, knowledge and understanding of and to them.

 

[elman]

People don't get saved because they ask Jesus into their hearts like some magic spell. The very moment you believe the gospel you are saved instantaneously, before you confess with your mouth, you're heart believes unto salvation.

Nothing happens outside of God's will. Either by decree or by his permissive will, God is sovereign over everything that happens. The purpose of the atonement was to provide salvation to man and not to force salvation on man. Election is part of but not "the" gift of salvation. Because man is totally depraved, left to himself, he does not seek after God. Part of the gift of salvation is God's enablement of the elect to respond in faith to His plan of salvation. Those who reject the gospel are condemned for their unbelief and will suffer the judgment of the Lake of Fire. These people were not predestined to hell, no one was created to be damned, the lost were simply passed over and not elected to be predestined to the image of Christ.

Sin by definition is not the will of God. If man is totally depraved and does not seek God, why did Paul say in Acts 17 that God created us for the purpose of seeking Him?

 

[elman]

The Salvation of All Men​

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. - 1 Timothy 2:3-5.

John Calvin's sermon on this scripture.

Calvin - Sermons

HE certainly understood what this scripture meant. The whole counsel of God is what we should use when considering what is meant by scripture, otherwise you may be reading something that is not in the text, an understanding that is perceived according to your own way of thinking.
Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation. The scripture is inspired by and of God and it is He who gives the wisdom, knowledge and understanding of and to them.

It is not clear what you are saying that scripture means. Is it like the scripture in Ezekiel 18 that says God wants everyone to turn to righteousness and live? You are not saying everyone will be saved, I assume.