Make-up: What do Orthodox say?

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Here are some quotes from some Church Fathers on the subject of make-up. I'm throwing them in because they are thought-provoking and cause one to re-examine what relationship a Christian should have with their body. I haven't yet dug up anything on mutilation, but I'll look in that direction next.

"God has confined bodily beauty within the limits of nature, but grace of soul is released from contraint and bondage...because it is far superior to any bodily symmetry: but this depends entirely upon ourselves and the grace of God. For our Master, being merciful, has in this special way honored our race...If He had placed corporeal beauty within our control we should have been subjected to excessive anxiety about it and should have wasted all our time upon things which are of no profit, grievously neglecting our soul. But even as powerless as we are [to change the appearance of the body], we make violent efforts and give ourselves up to shadow painting (make-up). Because we cannot really create bodily beauty, we cunningly devise imitations by means of paints and dyes and dressing of hair, and arrangement of garments, and pencilling of eyebrows, and many other contrivances. What time would we have set aside for the soul and serious matters if it were in our power to transfigure the body into a really symmetrical shape? Probably, if this were our business, we would spend all of our time on it: decking the bondmaid (the body) with countless decorations, and letting the soul, who is the mistress of the bondmaid, lie perpetually in a state of deformity and neglect." ~St. John Chrysostom, from "Letters to the Fallen Theodore".

St. Jerome speaks of St. Mary Magdelen: "In the Gospel, a harlot wins salvation. How? She is baptised in her tears and wipes the Lord's feet with that same hair with which she had before deceived many. She does not wear a waving headress or creaking boots; she does not darken her eyes with antimony. Yet in her squalor she is lovlier than ever. What place have rouge and white lead on the face of Christian women? The one simulates the natural red of the cheeks and of the lips; the other the whiteness of the face and neck. They serve only to inflame young men's passions, to stimulate lust, and to indicate an unchaste mind. How can a woman weep for her sins whose tears lay bare her true complexion and mark furrows on her cheeks? Such adorning is not of the Lord; a mask of this kind belongs to the Antichrist. With what confidence can a woman raise features to heaven which her Creator must fail to recognise? It is idle to allege in excuse that such practices are merely girlishness and youthful vanity." (Letter 54).

"It is neither normal nor possible to be friendly with a snake and carry it in one's bosom. Nor is it possible to pamper the body and love it, beyond what is useful and needed, and at the same time try to care for heavenly virtue. Why? Because it is the nature of the snake to wound the one who warms it, and it is the nature of the body to pollute, by lust, the one who pampers it..Let the body be aware that it has a master ready to punish it...Do not allow this mortal clay, this daughter of darkness, to be ignorant of her immortal mistress, the soul." ~St. Hesychius of Jerusalem

St. Anthony says: "Do not give all of your care to the body. Give it work which matches its strngth and then turn all of your attention to what is within, For bodily exercise profiteth little but godliness is profitable unto all things (I Tim. 4:8). Whenever the flesh outweighs the soul on the scales, it tortures the soul and and weighs it down with a burden, pushing it in the direction of improper and corrupt desires and impulses..." (Texts on Saintly Life)

Some of these quotes do not come out and condemn make-up or bodily adornment in general, but emphasize the need to put the soul's care/adornment above that of the body. Think about the amount of time you spend in a week deciding what to wear, applying make-up, styling your hair, wondering if other people find you attractive, etc... Now, think about how much time you devote through the week to prayer, meditation, reading of scripture, and things of the like. What is the comparison like? Personally, I have need of shifting some focus in my life. I thought since we are quickly approaching Lent, it would be good for some of us to examine the relationship between flesh and soul (namely me!). Which is, of course, very much tied in with things like make-up.

 

[katherine2001]

It's not just the time we spend on makeup that makes it bad (personally, I have almost never worn much makeup--in fact, most of the time I've worn none). To me, it's part of this insane effort to be perfect and to live up to society's standard of what's pretty. In a way, I think it can be a slap in God's face--it's like telling God I don't like the face you gave me, so I'm going to put makeup on my face so that it will look better (read, look more like the woman that society wants to see). I know women who put on makeup before their husband gets up so that he won't see her without makeup. But isn't part of marriage and love about accepting the other person for what he/she really is?

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I know women who put on makeup before their husband gets up so that he won't see her without makeup.

Puhleez! I have been married for almost 10 years and let me tell you that I can't imagine living like that. Your husband is going to see you not only make-up less but probably feverish with the flu or other illness, red and sweaty in child birth, engorged and crabby while nursing, hairy between waxing and/or shaving, etc. etc. A woman who is trying to hide who she is with make up better just get over it now.

Monica

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Puhleez! I have been married for almost 10 years and let me tell you that I can't imagine living like that. Your husband is going to see you not only make-up less but probably feverish with the flu or other illness, red and sweaty in child birth, engorged and crabby while nursing, hairy between waxing and/or shaving, etc. etc. A woman who is trying to hide who she is with make up better just get over it now.

Monica

Hey! Shhhhhhhh! [You'll scare away all the single men!] But seriously, that is pathetic. I also know of a young woman who will not....umm.....go "number 2" while her husband is home. It's a shame that a woman would try that hard to be perfection 24/7 (to the point of avoiding normal bodily functions!).

 

[Khaleas]

Puhleez! I have been married for almost 10 years and let me tell you that I can't imagine living like that. Your husband is going to see you not only make-up less but probably feverish with the flu or other illness, red and sweaty in child birth, engorged and crabby while nursing, hairy between waxing and/or shaving, etc. etc. A woman who is trying to hide who she is with make up better just get over it now.

Monica

Unfortunately I know a few too.
My now husband had to get over things the first month we dated. His roommate got reassigned and he ended up with no apartment so he crashed here after us dating for three weeks. Not normally the ideal situation but I think we realized right then that we can definitely live with eachother. He was actually the one who had it harder to relax about the little things. I don't wear much make up on normal days anyways(heck, I don't do my hair to go to school... I don't see the point... I like my sleep - I can look nice without blowing it out every day).

 

[Prawnik]

Hey! Shhhhhhhh! [You'll scare away all the single men!] But seriously, that is pathetic. I also know of a young woman who will not....umm.....go "number 2" while her husband is home. It's a shame that a woman would try that hard to be perfection 24/7 (to the point of avoiding normal bodily functions!).

Um, that is simply weird.

Imagine the look of desperation in her eyes: "Honey, can you go to the store? I know the game is on, but I NEED you to go to the store. We need, um lipstick and, um, water chestnuts or something. Or if you can't go to the store, can you walk the cat? I know, cats don't need to be walked, but I need you. I need you to walk the cat right NOW!"

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Um, that is simply weird.

Imagine the look of desperation in her eyes: "Honey, can you go to the store? I know the game is on, but I NEED you to go to the store. We need, um lipstick and, um, water chestnuts or something. Or if you can't go to the store, can you walk the cat? I know, cats don't need to be walked, but I need you. I need you to walk the cat right NOW!"

ROFL!!! Yep. Crazy stuff.

 

[Prawnik]

I was waiting for "BAD DOG!"

 

[Khaleas]

This is getting funny...
What to Orthodox say about Make up turns in the bodily functions thread and the Questions on Orthodoxy turns into the hockey thread...


And now for the related one...
I was surfing around on our church's website and found a picture of me kissing the cross and man it was not flattering... definitely time for gym again...


And... I will return to my dinner...

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Vasya, I agree with most of what you said. I think part of the appeal of make-up is that it mimics arousal. But it also mimics youth and health. When my kids are well and happy, their skin is smooth and fine textured, they have roses in their cheeks, their eyes are bright and their mouths are plump and pinkish. For centuries in some cultures, kohl has been used to line the eyes of women and children. So wearing minimal to moderate make up (a little sheen on the lips, some color on the cheeks, a little liner on the eyes) doesn't necessarily have to be about arousal.

Not necessarily, I grant you.

However, this doesn't resolve my main point of a couple posts ago. Let me, if I may, quote myself:

... However, one wonders what signals women are sending (deliberately or no) when they wear makeup. Perhaps it doesn't matter. Perhaps in our culture where eros is displayed everywhere, makeup doesn't matter two bits. But perhaps it does. I just don't think that we are addressing this issue in Christian circles. I don't think that we have a well-articulated defense of what we do or don't do. I don't think that we have bothered to look past our cultural norms to address the implications of our actions. We should. Whatever is the ultimate decision (makeup or no), I think that Christians should be bolder to articulate why on earth we do what we do. We may be in the world, but we are not of it, and as a consequence we need to examine all the places in which our behaviour intersects and mimics the behaviour of the pagans about us.

If makeup is in fact about youth, and not about arousal, we have merely exchanged one cultural god for another. We have gone from Eros to Youth. Ancient Egyptians worshipped death; well, we worship youthfulness (a legacy of the Romans, I believe). We do almost everything in our power to hide, conceal, disguise, eradicate, or reverse the signs of aging. We live in an age of Botox, work-outs, Oil of Olay, liposuction, and hair colouring. Our women look like girls, and our men look like boys (no beards for the wannabe young). We fear signs of aging the way our ancestors feared natural disasters. And we take great steps to keep ourselves looking and acting youthful.



Now, if makeup is about youth... then we still have to examine the issue of makeup in Christian circles. Maybe it isn't a big deal in a culture where so much else is about youth. Maybe a reasoned, articulated Christian response to makeup will accept it in its entirety. However, I don't see that it is being addressed. I don't see that we are examining the implications of borrowing from our pagan culture. I don't see that anyone is saying:

"Wait a minute! This makeup comes out of non-Christian thought... out of pagan origins. Well, then. Let's sit down and chew this over, and figure out exactly where we the Church stand on this issue. Obviously we can only accept it or reject it (in varying degrees). So let's not be reactionary, and let's not soak up the practices of the pagans without discernment. We need the baptismal waters. We need the refining fire."


​

Who is doing this? No one that I know of. I have never heard a sermon on the subject, nor read a Christian defense or attack. Why are we so reticent to address the more incidious mores of our culture? Abortion is easy to oppose. It's big, it's bold, it's obviously wrong. But can't we see that abortion comes out of a sick, pagan society that is far from God? And that our culture is little to be trusted? That we need to start reevaluating the world around us and actually daring to say: this is wrong. (Or this came from a wrong source, but is not intrinsically evil.)??

My complaint is that we are doing neither. We are not a discerning people.
[/RANT]

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Oh, Monica?

I hope you have read this far. I wasn't attacking you personally. I was arguing (ahem... ranting about) a core issue that I don't think we (Christians in general) are bothering to address. What issue is that? Not so much makeup - it is merely a convenient hook for my rant. The issue is Lack of Discernment.

Apparently I didn't express myself well enough (I have heard from someone by PM, asking what I meant).

My rant is simply this: We North American Christians live in a culture that is not Christian. It is a culture that shows signs of worshipping many things that are not Godly: Eros (sex), Youth, material possessions. The list could go on, I guess. ... Now instead of examining our culture to determine whether what we borrow from it is right or not, Christians seem to either a) accept it whole hog or b) reject it wholesale. I am trying to argue that we go back to the model of the early Church, or even the model of the Church in 10th century Ukraine, where thinking Christians examined the culture that Christianity was about to permeate and asked themselves what pagan customs could be kept and what pagan customs should be thrown out.

Somewhere along the way, we have to realize that we no longer live in Christendom, and that the society about us is alien to God, and counter to His Spirit. And as such, we need to treat it as the paganism it is.

I hope that helps.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

We are not a discerning people.

Vasya,
For my part I have to disagree. I personally spent 2-3 years intensely focused on the issue of modesty, make up and head covering. During that time I went from skirts at mid thigh, tank tops and MAC cosmetics ($$) to long sleeves, long skirts, no make up and head scarves ALL THE TIME. I am now somewhere in the middle and totally satisfied that I am honoring God with my body as it relates to these issues. My silver hair is coming in and my attitude is "Bring it on! I ain't gonna cover it up." (Gray hair is a crown of splendor; it is attained by a righteous life. Proverbs 16:31) When I see beautiful, mature women my mom's age (50s) and older, especially when they are known for being Godly, I think "Wow! I hope I am like that one day."

I don't worship youth. I am not trying to seduce anybody or look younger than I am. I wear a little make up cuz Ima girl and I like looking pretty. I curl my hair sometimes and paint my toe nails too. I have even been known to spray on a little perfume. Make up isn't necessarily this big, deep issue. Yes some women use it for the wrong reasons but that is ultimately a heart issue that should be dealt with like all other heart issues: through prayer, fasting and the sacraments. If the Church needs to speak out about make up to women today, It will. But it may not be through sermons and rules. It may be through the purity of the women in our icons and their wonderful example of renouncing the world and living for Christ.

That's just what I think...

Monica

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Hey! Shhhhhhhh! [You'll scare away all the single men!] But seriously, that is pathetic. I also know of a young woman who will not....umm.....go "number 2" while her husband is home. It's a shame that a woman would try that hard to be perfection 24/7 (to the point of avoiding normal bodily functions!).

I wonder if it wasn't that very concept that was behind the ancient Jewish wedding custom where after the Bridegroom "stole" the bride (ie - parable of the 10 virgins) they were cloistered in the wedding chamber for 7 days. After those 7 days, they have seen the bad as well as the good.

 

[Prawnik]

I wonder if it wasn't that very concept that was behind the ancient Jewish wedding custom where after the Bridegroom "stole" the bride (ie - parable of the 10 virgins) they were cloistered in the wedding chamber for 7 days. After those 7 days, they have seen the bad as well as the good.

IIRC, that was also part of the idea behind the development of the honeymoon.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

A well-written post, Monica.

Rep-Nazis hate me. I tried to rep you, I really did.

Now, I still disagree with you, and I think there is a flaw or two in your argument, if only I can find it/them. You may be sure that I will be revisiting this in a day or two.

 

[rhyddid_rose]

To Life Immortal

I dont wear makeup, don't need it. I don't know if tats are good or bad. I want a tat of my aunt and a cross.

I wear middle eastern and indian clothes like shalwar qamiz and saris. I dress very modestly and I hate Western clothes. Too sexual for my tastes.

As for my hair, it's purple, but people rarely see it. I cover my hair when I'm at church. I recently got dreadlocs and I keep them covered until they form.

 

[33ad]

We North American Christians live in a culture that is not Christian. It is a culture that shows signs of worshipping many things that are not Godly: Eros (sex), Youth, material possessions.

Vasya,

These cultural values are not resrticted to North America. It is a world wide problem now. I have to pray with my beads while walking across town not to let my thoughts stray by what is being flouted on the streets.

Just my humble 2c worth.

Kolya

 

[33ad]

To Life Immortal

I dont wear makeup, don't need it. I don't know if tats are good or bad. I want a tat of my aunt and a cross.

I wear middle eastern and indian clothes like shalwar qamiz and saris. I dress very modestly and I hate Western clothes. Too sexual for my tastes.

As for my hair, it's purple, but people rarely see it. I cover my hair when I'm at church. I recently got dreadlocs and I keep them covered until they form.

You're quite the lady Babochka! Be what you are and live it out! (Leef dit uit!)

Kolya

 

[Monica child of God 1]

To Life Immortal

I dont wear makeup, don't need it. I don't know if tats are good or bad. I want a tat of my aunt and a cross.

I wear middle eastern and indian clothes like shalwar qamiz and saris. I dress very modestly and I hate Western clothes. Too sexual for my tastes.

As for my hair, it's purple, but people rarely see it. I cover my hair when I'm at church. I recently got dreadlocs and I keep them covered until they form.

Very cool babochka! I love shalwar kameez too! I have a couple of sets and whenever I wear them I think "why don't I dress like this every day?" There are Western styled options for modest clothing. I like www.shukronline.com and www.tznius.com.

I used to have locks and my son and husband still have them. As I said before, I used to cover my head full time and I think about going back to it. We'll see. I need to speak to my SF about it first though.

You bring up an interesting point: needing make up. I also feel I don't need it. I am not someone who thinks "I gotta put my face on" in the morning. Sometimes I go for days without it. I just don't think wearing it should signal "ungodliness" in the minds of people who think women should go without as a rule. It smacks of judgment and legalism IMO.

This reminds me of a story in the Fathers...I am going to have to look it up.

Blessings!

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Once the Patriarch of Antioch was sitting with his bishops in the courtyard of the church of Saint Julian. While they were engaged in discussion, they heard an unusual commotion in the street. At that moment a luxurious carriage was passing by outside the church. The courtesan Pelagia was pridefully seated inside. The road sparkled from the brilliance of the jewels which she wore. The air was filled with the scent of her expensive perfumes. [me: I am going to assume she had make up on too. She was an actress ] The crowd of people cheered her as though they were out of their minds.

The bishops turned their heads aside in disgust, to avoid facing the satanic woman, who had led so many of the young aristocrats of the city into the mire of immorality. Only one, Bishop Nonos, followed her persistently with his gaze, until she disappeared at a turn in the road. Afterwards he turned to the other bishops and said to them with a sorrowful voice:

“Woe to us, brothers in Christ. This woman puts us to great shame. Did you see how much care she takes in dressing her body in order to lure her lovers? While we lazy people-what do we do to adorn our souls to attract the love of our heavenly Bridegroom?”

Saying these things, he prayed with fervor for that sinful soul. And his prayer was heard. Divine Grace restored her and Pelagia came to believe in Christ, repented her sinful life, was baptized by the holy Nonos, and came to a holy end.