• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Make Poverty History!

fanatiquefou

you know, for kids!
Jun 19, 2004
2,052
270
Indiana
✟3,638.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
rebel_conservative said:
yes, but none of these strides will come until we sort out the political situation in Africa. until that time, ChristianAid and Oxfam and other groups that work on the ground can alleviate suffering to a degree, but this is a sticking plaster, it is not a solution.

Okay, then, what do you suggest? Why just sit there on your butt pooh-poohing the efforts of people who are genuinely concerned and are trying to do something about the situation? What better ideas do you have? Should we all just give up, then? What kind of kick do you get out of bad-mouthing a movement like this that is at least drawing attention to a very serious problem?
 
  • Like
Reactions: poretz
Upvote 0

rebel_conservative

Baruch HaShem! Praise G-d!
Feb 5, 2005
11,135
110
✟34,327.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
fanatiquefou said:
Okay, then, what do you suggest?

sometimes the most logical and prudent course of action is in fact, inaction or maintaining the present course until such time as a change would yield benefits.

fanatiquefou said:
Why just sit there on your butt pooh-poohing the efforts of people who are genuinely concerned and are trying to do something about the situation?

well, I highly doubt that any of the pop stars are genuinely concerned, they are all multi millionairres, that money could go a long way. and I highly doubt that most of the people who attended Live8 are genuinely concerned either.

it is very easy to just blame governments and mindlessly support some foolish statist course of action. this way we alleviate our guilt, and feel that we are making a difference.

fanatiquefou said:
What better ideas do you have?

agree to suspend the repayments for a period of time, the debt would still be there, but they would not be shouldering the burden of it. then we see what progress is made. if a country is progressing, we can continue to copver their repayments and, in time, extend debt relief to those countries who are reducing corruption, democratising, furthering liberty, securing property rights, maintaining the rule of law. for those countries who did not spend the money wisely, who did not tackle corruption etc for the leaders who spend money on mansions and cars for their staff and foreign holidays and aeroplanes etc, they would have to pay their debts.

fanatiquefou said:
Should we all just give up, then?

until the issue of government is solved, there is little we can do but to alleviate suffering. we - individuals - should be giving money to CAFOD, Christian Aid, Oxfam and Water Aid, charities that bypass governments and work on the ground.

fanatiquefou said:
What kind of kick do you get out of bad-mouthing a movement like this that is at least drawing attention to a very serious problem?

I don't get a kick out of anything. they are not drawing attention to the very serious problem. they are avoiding the problem, which is the political situation. during Live8, no mention was made of kleptocratic African dictators.
 
Upvote 0

ade32

English American
Jun 23, 2004
1,274
61
53
Columbus, OH
✟1,744.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
rebel_conservative said:
sometimes the most logical and prudent course of action is in fact, inaction or maintaining the present course until such time as a change would yield benefits.

Wow, are you a politician? You're certainly fluent in their language.
 
Upvote 0

rebel_conservative

Baruch HaShem! Praise G-d!
Feb 5, 2005
11,135
110
✟34,327.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
ade32 said:
Wow, are you a politician? You're certainly fluent in their language.

you are calling me a politician? that is an ad hominem attack, surely! :p

anyway, it is not a politicians answer. firstly, it is unpopular. secondly, it is honest. thirdly, it is logical and prudent.

I stand by it. it is illogical to pursue a course of action that you know will fail to produce a benefit purely for the purpose of appearing to be acting. do you dispute this?
 
Upvote 0

ade32

English American
Jun 23, 2004
1,274
61
53
Columbus, OH
✟1,744.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
rebel_conservative said:
you are calling me a politician? that is an ad hominem attack, surely! :p

anyway, it is not a politicians answer. firstly, it is unpopular. secondly, it is honest. thirdly, it is logical and prudent.

I stand by it. it is illogical to pursue a course of action that you know will fail to produce a benefit purely for the purpose of appearing to be acting. do you dispute this?

No, I don't even know what you're talking about. The point is that its something that sounds philosphical but is suffiently vague, flakey and non-commital as to constitute a politicians answer. Its just the wording, not anything to do with the subject! :)
 
Upvote 0

one love

Well-Known Member
Dec 17, 2003
1,128
39
39
clear lake tx
Visit site
✟1,475.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Republican
If you want to make a difference in Africa, I suggest you not give your money to this clown Bob Geldoff and his friends that youve been seeing on tv. First time around back in the 80's he ended up giving millions to corrupt dictators. The only does this to feel righteous and exalted. Give your money to the Red Cross or WorldBank if you want it to make apositive difference in the African peoples lives.
 
Upvote 0

rebel_conservative

Baruch HaShem! Praise G-d!
Feb 5, 2005
11,135
110
✟34,327.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
one love said:
If you want to make a difference in Africa, I suggest you not give your money to this clown Bob Geldoff and his friends that youve been seeing on tv. First time around back in the 80's he ended up giving millions to corrupt dictators. The only does this to feel righteous and exalted. Give your money to the Red Cross or WorldBank if you want it to make apositive difference in the African peoples lives.

exactly. :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

fanatiquefou

you know, for kids!
Jun 19, 2004
2,052
270
Indiana
✟3,638.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
one love said:
If you want to make a difference in Africa, I suggest you not give your money to this clown Bob Geldoff and his friends that youve been seeing on tv. First time around back in the 80's he ended up giving millions to corrupt dictators. The only does this to feel righteous and exalted. Give your money to the Red Cross or WorldBank if you want it to make apositive difference in the African peoples lives.

I believe you'll find that they've addressed many of the problems that led to the fiasco in the '80s. Do you really feel like you're justified in making such a judgment call, to say that "they only do this to feel righteous and exalted?" Do you know their minds and hearts so well, then?

As for the stars involved - many of them have made HUGE commitments to the causes they're preaching about. They're not just in it for the attention or a little lip-service - they're actually out there working for their cause. I mean, say that Bono can be a bit of an arrogant prick sometimes, and I'll agree. Say that he's not fully committed to the eradication of poverty, or that he hasn't put huge amounts of time, effort, and money into this cause, and I'll just laugh at you.
 
Upvote 0

poretz

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2004
631
47
✟1,034.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
one love said:
If you want to make a difference in Africa, I suggest you not give your money to this clown Bob Geldoff and his friends that youve been seeing on tv. First time around back in the 80's he ended up giving millions to corrupt dictators. The only does this to feel righteous and exalted. Give your money to the Red Cross or WorldBank if you want it to make apositive difference in the African peoples lives.
Actually I wouldn't encourage anyone give to those largest of organizations as the money still seems to be diverted into governmental bodies never to be seen again (Sri Lanka for example - six months and still no sign of governmental distribution of aid that was entrusted to it). If you would give to a larger org, I would suggest Doctors without Borders. But some of the smaller orgs have actually proven to be much more efficient and effective, but do your home work, after all that is hardly a fraction of the time they expend as volunteers, you can afford to do a little research too.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Tsunami aid 'went to the richest'
"A survey by Oxfam found that aid had tended to go to businesses and landowners, exacerbating the divide between rich and poor.

The poor were likely to spend much longer in refugee camps where it is harder to find work or rebuild lives."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4621365.stm

In contrast and by way of example read the reports here:
http://www.you-shall-love.org/news.html

In particular read the 8th and latest report from our leader on the ground:
http://www.you-shall-love.org/Jey_Report8.html
 
Upvote 0

Richard

Legend
Aug 2, 2004
12,919
500
✟38,423.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
ScottishJohn said:
In excess of 225,000 people converged on Edinburgh today to march in the run up to the G8 conference in Gleneagles. Organisers expected about 100,000 marchers but the event managed to cope with more than double that number with no apparent problems other than a minor clash between 60 Anarchists and Police. This is the biggest demonstration on Scottish soil ever, and sends a clear message to the G8 leaders that it is not just protest junkies who care about the growing humanitarian crisis in the third world. From babies to grandparents every demographic was represented.

Make Poverty History.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/uk/4642053.stm


THis concert was a crock. They didn't raise ANY money this year for poverty in Africa, all they did was raise awareness.
 
Upvote 0