Make love....

[Spinrad]

Is that true? Will they both get beaten? Ever tried it?

No. I like my bones just as they are. I have stopped fights but always by force.

 

[The Seeker]

But violence is not the best way. I do understand that sometimes it seems like the only way. But is that true? Is it the only way?

What alternatives are there? Let yourself get beaten into a bloody pulp? I'd rather have my health than a moral victory, any day.

 

[belladonic-haze]

Did Jesus ever achieve anything? Did Buddha? Did Gandhi?

And before you repeat that same tired old myth, Gandhi was not solely responsible for driving the British Empire out of India. I think the armed resistance against the British army and the fact that the British Empire was increasingly economically unviable might just have had something to do with it.

I am not talking about history, I am talking about the strength they had to refuse to act violently. Jesus could fight and set a nation up against the Romans, Gandhi tried his best, but there are indeed other things to consider. But they stayed strong and never were seduced to violemce and believe me, they were as human as you and me.....

I am not talking about myths, I am talking about what I have learned from them....

And I am not Miss perfect. I do not know what I would do if someone kills my husband over whatever people kill each other for.......I am realiztic enough. But I know I that when it happened to me I never had the feeling to turn to violence. I will defend myself of course, but does it make me weaker if my means of defending is a none violent one?

 

[12volt_man]

My opinion: Stop war...whatever the reason to go to war. A true and honest peaceful solution lasts longer.....

OK. What would have been a peaceful alternative to fight Hitler and the Nipponese in WWII?

So, what could be a reason for war?

A mad man threatening the safety and security of the world. A fight for liberty, freedom from oppression.

Making peace where there is no peace.

(I am a pacifist.)

No, you're a passive-ist. There's a difference.

Wonder what you all feel about it?

It's a common misconception among the left that peace means the absence of war. It does not. In fact, many times, war is the only path to peace.

 

[kopilo]

Did Jesus ever killed someone? Did Buddha? Did Gandhi? to name a few......

Do they have lost their influence in this world? Have people forgotten them? Do people find them cowards because they are against violence, war and so on?

I think you will find most people say "turn the other cheek" but don't get beaten to a pulp..

I know where you are coming from as this is where I came and still in some ways do come from.. If someone verbally assults you and you can defuse the whole situation without violence then that is fantastic (having done that once in my lifetime myself) but when you see someone picks up a bottle and go to smash you over the head is when you need to restrain them, not stand there and let them violate you. After-all is holding someone to the floor violence, if you mean to cause them no harm.

If someone throws a punch at you, and you can block it then do so.

 

[The Seeker]

I am not talking about history, I am talking about the strength they had to refuse to act violently. Jesus could fight and set a nation up against the Romans, Gandhi tried his best, but there are indeed other things to consider. But they stayed strong and never were seduced to violemce and believe me, they were as human as you and me.....

So they were non-violent, what's your point?

I am not talking about myths, I am talking about what I have learned from them....

And I am not Miss perfect. I do not know what I would do if someone kills my husband over whatever people kill each other for.......I am realiztic enough. But I know I that when it happened to me I never had the feeling to turn to violence. I will defend myself of course, but does it make me weaker if my means of defending is a none violent one?

How can you defend yourself against a physical attack without using violence? And why would you want to, if it were easier to use violence?

 

[Eudaimonist]

So, what could be a reason for war? In my heart and mind I can not think of any reason to kill......Why kill a living being? (I am a pacifist.)

If those living beings are trying to kill or enslave you... that's a good reason.

Self-defense, defense of loved ones, and defense of liberty are good reasons to go to war.

I'm a military non-interventionist -- I think that war may rightly be fought to repell violent aggression by a foreign power, but generally war should not be initiated without a clear and present danger that makes war the only reasonable course of action to protect innocent lives.

(Occasionally, the Gandhi passivist solution may be best, but not in all cases. It depends completely on the ability to shame one's enemy. If they are shameless, it will fail. Gandhi would have been powerless against Hitler.)

 

[belladonic-haze]

So they were non-violent, what's your point?


How can you defend yourself against a physical attack without using violence? And why would you want to, if it were easier to use violence?

Because if I want the hurt and violence in this wolrd against all living beings to end, I have to act that way. Not just scream it from the roof but truly live my life that way.

I could buy a gun and kill those who have given me a life sentences as a rape survivor. But what would my words mean if I did?

I could find those who have scarred my soul and hunt them down to scar them for life, but what would my prayers for a peaceful life mean?

I could beat my rapists to a bloody pulp because they humiliated me, but what would my words mean about living with respect compassion and love for ALL living beings?

I could join the army and fight against anyone who threatens my family, country, my life....but what would I mean to myself if I did?

You all make it sound as if I grew up in a garden of happiness and did not have my portion of pain inflicted by others to me or to my family. You all make me sound like some nut that believes in a peaceful excistence, a dreamer.

I feel like I am the coward here, but what is so brave about picking up a gun?


(PS: I do not feel attacked as a person....just my POV. So keep on coming...

Oh, And I do not loose respect for you because you feel different...we just disagree. And I DO have respect for soldiers who defend us...or else I would disrespect my own dad..... )

 

[kopilo]

So they were non-violent, what's your point?


How can you defend yourself against a physical attack without using violence? And why would you want to, if it were easier to use violence?

If attacking someone is easier, doesn't make it right and generally I find it better to end a situation if no one at the end of it is hurt, but that is just me.

 

[kopilo]

There are apparently 9 or so reasons for war, the ones I remember is economics (raises inflation), land space (redefining boarders), resources and politics.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Because if I want the hurt and violence in this wolrd against all living beings to end, I have to act that way.

But that won't work. It won't end violence -- all it may end is you. Allowing violence to exist unchecked only promotes violence since violent people will know they can get away with it.

 

[kopilo]

What alternatives are there? Let yourself get beaten into a bloody pulp? I'd rather have my health than a moral victory, any day.

In some cases prevention, for example ignoring direct insults.

In others defence, escape, calling for help, etc etc.

 

[belladonic-haze]

But that won't work. It won't end violence -- all it may end is you. Allowing violence to exist unchecked only promotes violence since violent people will know they can get away with it.

At least then I wll know I did everything with my simple life to change a bit of the world......

I never said I allow violence to excist...How did you get that idea??? I am against violence...how can I allow it? Because I do not use it?

That puzzles me....

By the way: I am still here

 

[kopilo]

Violence refers to acts —typically connotative with aggressive and criminal behaviour —which intend to cause or is causing of injury to persons, animals, or (in limited cases) property. Harm to non-human animals may be considered violence, though this depends on the social mores related to animal cruelty, and the situational context in which such acts take place. The concept of violence can also be extended to any abuse, usually depending on severity. Damage to property is typically considered minor relative to violence against persons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence

You do not need to use violence to defend yourself, unless you consider holding someone to the ground, blocking or redirecting other peoples agressive behaviour, to be violence.

 

[Jetgirl]

Give me another reason to use violence?

If you don't fight, your children or loved ones will be harmed or killed.

Is that a good reason?

Stand there and get beat up all you'd like, but sometimes letting that happen means the harm extends to people who you have a duty to protect.

Would you let your child get raped because you refuse to use violence against the perpetrator?

 

[belladonic-haze]

If you don't fight, your children or loved ones will be harmed or killed.

Is that a good reason?

Stand there and get beat up all you'd like, but sometimes letting that happen means the harm extends to people who you have a duty to protect.

Why does none violence means that you do not fight back? I mean really, do you really think I want my loved ones to get hurt? I will jump in front of the gun if needed, but I will not use violence....

I find it really weird that people think that I sit and watch them slaughter my family....just because I refuse to pick up a gun and use violence to defend them.....

I do not want to kill a living being.....I do not want to harm them in anyway. I will defend my family if needed, but why can't it be in a none violent way?

Again, I am not a coward that just watches coldly while her family is being killed.....I will be brave enough to die for them.....

Why use violence to stop violence? In that way violence will never end

 

[kopilo]

If you don't fight, your children or loved ones will be harmed or killed.

have any sources to back that up with?

 

[kopilo]

Why does none violence means that you do not fight back? I mean really, do you really think I want my loved ones to get hurt? I will jump in front of the gun if needed, but I will not use violence....

I find it really weird that people think that I sit and watch them slaughter my family....just because I refuse to pick up a gun and use violence to defend them.....

I do not want to kill a living being.....I do not want to harm them in anyway. I will defend my family if needed, but why can't it be in a none violent way?

Again, I am not a coward that just watches coldly while her family is being killed.....I will be brave enough to die for them.....

Why use violence to stop violence? In that way violence will never end

Do you need to be suicidal to be non-violent?

 

[The Seeker]

Because if I want the hurt and violence in this wolrd against all living beings to end, I have to act that way. Not just scream it from the roof but truly live my life that way.

I could buy a gun and kill those who have given me a life sentences as a rape survivor. But what would my words mean if I did?

I could find those who have scarred my soul and hunt them down to scar them for life, but what would my prayers for a peaceful life mean?

I could beat my rapists to a bloody pulp because they humiliated me, but what would my words mean about living with respect compassion and love for ALL living beings?

I could join the army and fight against anyone who threatens my family, country, my life....but what would I mean to myself if I did?

You all make it sound as if I grew up in a garden of happiness and did not have my portion of pain inflicted by others to me or to my family. You all make me sound like some nut that believes in a peaceful excistence, a dreamer.

I feel like I am the coward here, but what is so brave about picking up a gun?

I am sorry if you feel insulted by what I have said, I am not calling you a coward at all. Your argument seems to be that violence is bad because violence is bad ("How could I oppose violence if I were to act violently"). Sometimes one act of violence can prevent a greater act of violence. How can you justify allowing yourself or others to come to greater harm out of a pig headed refusal to fight back?

 

[The Seeker]

In some cases prevention, for example ignoring direct insults.

Of course it is better to avoid a fight if possible, but once it has become unavoidable, then what?

In others defence, escape, calling for help, etc etc.

And if there's nobody around? If you're surrounded? What is wrong with putting someone down and then running to protect yourself?