• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What do you believe?

  • I'm a Christian and believe in evolution.

  • I'm a Christian and believe in Old Earth Creationism

  • I'm a Christian and believe in Young Earth Creationism

  • I'm a Christian and believe something else


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

tryptophan

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2004
485
23
41
Missouri
✟15,741.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Others
Micaiah said:
The problem with teaching evolution in a high school science classes is that it ignore the fact that God exists, and has given clear statements in Scripture about our origins. In order to be considered science, you need some sort of evidence. It would be appropriate to discuss the way in which life supposedly came from inanimate objects, and the big bang theory in a world religions class, but in science, it is not appropriate due to lack of evidence. However, there is ample evidence to support what God says in Scripture about Creation. That is what should be taught in science classrooms.
Evolution does not ignore the fact that God exists. It makes no statement on the existence or non-existence of God. And there is plenty of evidence for evolution. The scientific view of origins only conflicts with a literal interpretation of scripture. Abiogenesis is not a theory, but is more like a hypothesis, although there is some evidence (it isn't conclusive though). I'm not sure how supported big bang is though.

What evidence is there for YEC? I've asked this a half dozen times the past 4 days alone and haven't received a single answer. Is there anything?
 
Upvote 0

tryptophan

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2004
485
23
41
Missouri
✟15,741.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Others
Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
Uh, previous post...
Oh, sorry, didn't see that before.

There is a response to some of those arguments at http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html.

You can make up your own mind about which one you think is true. But this part floored me.

There are a few granite outcrops that hint that it may have moved 12,000 feet;84 however this too is questionable since the origin of granite itself is uncertain. Some geologists believe most granites are igneous while others believe the majority are metamorphic. 85


Granite is igneous. I learned this in basic geology.
 
Upvote 0
May 11, 2004
4,273
123
Fortress Kedar
✟28,653.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
tryptophan said:
There is a response to some of those arguments at http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html.
Kind of humourous. "That's a little like watching the tide go out and concluding that the water level must have fallen at that rate since the earth began."

Kind of sounds like "Evolution has been going on at a similar rate throughout history, and the universe is expanding at known rates."

If they want to sound believable, they should not say that creationists are wrong in saying things are constant when these are the very assumptions evolutionists themselves make...
 
Upvote 0

Micaiah

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2002
2,444
37
62
Western Australia
Visit site
✟2,837.00
Faith
Christian
tryptophan said:
Evolution does not ignore the fact that God exists. It makes no statement on the existence or non-existence of God. And there is plenty of evidence for evolution. The scientific view of origins only conflicts with a literal interpretation of scripture. Abiogenesis is not a theory, but is more like a hypothesis, although there is some evidence (it isn't conclusive though). I'm not sure how supported big bang is though.

What evidence is there for YEC? I've asked this a half dozen times the past 4 days alone and haven't received a single answer. Is there anything?
Read all these links carefully. They will explain why evolution isn't true and Creation is.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/genetics.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/probabilities.asp

Then come back to this forum with a brief summary content of each article, stating the main arguments promoted by the author and the evidence they site in each case. Having done that, feel free to point our why you consider each wrong, and demonstrate that YEC has no scientific foundation.
 
Upvote 0

tryptophan

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2004
485
23
41
Missouri
✟15,741.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Others
Well, I don't have all day, so I'll look at the first one.

The Earth: How Old Does it Look? by Carl Wieland

His argument is that the Earth does not actually look old, we are just conditioned to think that it looks old. If you study it carefully, you'll see that it is actually quite young.

Argument 1: Everything should be eroded flat by now if the earth were billions of years old. Geological processes for uplifting are not enough.

My counter-argument: But they are enough. Lava and ash from volcanic eruptions, uplift of plutonic inclusions, and uplift of land area from compressional forces is enough to counteract erosion.

Argument 2: There is not enough helium on Earth to account for a 3 billion year old atmosphere.

My counter-argument: It has been shown that the amount of helium lost is balanced by the amount produced.

Argument 3: a)Fossil fish should not be possible unless there is some sort of rapid burial, explained by Noah's flood.

My counter-argument: I have no problem with the idea that rapid burial would be one necessity to having a good fossil. But how does this suggest against an old Earth?

b)There are examples of fossils which were obviously freeze framed.

My counter-argument: What does this have to do with the age of the Earth?

Argument 4: a)Coal has been shown to be able to be formed relatively quickly.

I've never seen this before, so I'll have to read more before I make up my mind.

b)Stalactites and stalagmites can be created relatively quickly.

My counter-argument: Yes, they can be formed quickly. But what takes a long time is the cave forming process itself, which would put many caves well before Noah's flood.

c)Opal can be created relatively quickly, not in millions of years.

I don't know anything about that, so I'll need to look more into that.

d)Fossilization can happen relatively quickly.

My counter-argument: Well, yes, but there are many different types of fossils. Not all form by the same process.

Argument 5: The oceans are too salty. If the Earth were billions of years old, they should be much saltier.

My counter-argument: There are factors that can balance the amount of salt entering the oceans and carrying them out.

Finally, the author objects to how we view the concept of "old." Yes, I agree, 6,000 years is a long time. But that's within a certain concept of human time. A thousand years is a long time in human time. There's also ecological time (a thousand years is a significant amount), evolutionary time (it is hardly anything at all) and geological time (equivalent to how we see a second). It's based on what perspective we see it from. If you were to tell me that Baghdad has been a city for thousands of years, I would agree that, indeed, that is a long time. If you were tell me that the lunar highlands on the Moon have been there for about a billion years, I would say that that is a relatively recent event. It's all perspective.

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to look at all of those. Thank you for your time.
 
Upvote 0
May 11, 2004
4,273
123
Fortress Kedar
✟28,653.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
tryptophan said:
Argument 2: There is not enough helium on Earth to account for a 3 billion year old atmosphere.

My counter-argument: It has been shown that the amount of helium lost is balanced by the amount produced.

Argument 5: The oceans are too salty. If the Earth were billions of years old, they should be much saltier.

My counter-argument: There are factors that can balance the amount of salt entering the oceans and carrying them out.
1) Then why has equilibrium not yet been reached?

2) What factors?
 
Upvote 0

tryptophan

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2004
485
23
41
Missouri
✟15,741.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Others
Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
1) Then why has equilibrium not yet been reached?

2) What factors?
1) I think that it has been reached.

2) I'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but I've heard that it is in balance, kind of like the carbon cycle.
 
Upvote 0

tryptophan

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2004
485
23
41
Missouri
✟15,741.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Others
"A Young Earth-It's not the Issue" by Ken Ham

His argument is that we should not base our knowledge of creation on science, but only on the Bible. In other words, it should be based on faith alone. In that case, what is the point of the web site? If you are not supposed to base your beliefs on science, what is the point of using science to support your position?

I'm sorry, but I take the first few chapters of Genesis as metaphor, not literal fact. Am I wrong? Possibly. But so far, as the evidence shows, I don't think that I am. I don't feel that it makes me a bad Christian (or a non-Christian for that matter), or one of those who puts the thoughts of man in front of God. I don't believe that I am undermining the Bible's authority. If Ham is not capable of accepting my view, fine. He has every right to his opinion, even the literal 6 day creation. But until somebody presents me with a non-biased, well established refutation of the scientific view of origins, I'm still going to believe that evolution is how we have gotten where we are today.
 
Upvote 0
May 11, 2004
4,273
123
Fortress Kedar
✟28,653.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
tryptophan said:
1) I think that it has been reached.

2) I'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but I've heard that it is in balance, kind of like the carbon cycle.
1) Any sources?

2) I'd like to know.

Sola Scriptura for creationism? Wow, haven't heard that one used often. I say use both the Bible and science in harmony.
 
Upvote 0
May 11, 2004
4,273
123
Fortress Kedar
✟28,653.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Euryale said:
LOL, you do realise that using the ocean salt argument "proves" the Earth is less than 100 years old. My God, don't you guys read a thing or have done any science classes?
If used in a flawed way...
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.