Magic: the Gathering

[theomnifish]

Heya. I'm new here so please bear with me...hehe

To start things of, I'm an Evangelical Christian. I'm just wondering what you all think of the TCG Magic the Gathering. I know a bunch of ppl that play it still, and used to play it myself for a long time, but I've heard ppl, non Christians and Christians alike, tell me that it's bad or it's the work of the devil/Satanic etc. So I'm just wondering what your opinions of the game are, and if you think it's right for Christians to be playing it or not.

 

[Monika]

I play MTG. I've never seen it as anything but a card game. There's not even any roleplaying. Monster cards fight other monster cards, you can play spell cards (but no one I've ever played with is so far gone they actually think they ARE casting them! lol)... it's all a fantasy world.

I play with what I call the "light" colors, white, green or blue... they have angel cards, "good guys" I guess you could say (although there are plenty of meanies in those colors). The red and black cards get kinda scary looking, artwork wise. I guess that could be why people think it's Satanic?


I think people who have a problem with MTG should have a problem with fantasy books out there as well.

 

[Talcos Stormweaver]

Magic: The Gathering? Very fun game in my opinion, for I have been playing it for years.

 

[Snowy]

I used to play it...but I have no one to play with anymore..

 

[Noddingdog]

I'll take a quote from one of my posts in the Magic thread in the Friendship Court:

Hey

My personal opinion is that it is wrong for Christians to play Magic: The Gathering, but to explain this best I'll use an article from Doug Gray's excellent website (http://www.bright.net/~gray0013/).

[size=+1]MAGIC: THE GATHERING®[/size]
"And now, dear friends, let me say one more thing as I close this letter. Fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable and right. Think about things that are pure and lovely and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Keep putting into practice all you have learned from me and heard from me and saw me doing, and the God of peace will be with you." Phillipians 4:8-9, New Living Bible Translation
Many people have asked me, "Will I go to Hell if I play Magic®?" The answer obviously is "No". Yet I believe this question requires more of a response. If you ask any Christian what his/her greatest struggle as a Christian is, he/she will say something like this, "The toughest battles I wage every day are in my mind." Whether the person is thinking about cheating on a test or watching something they shouldn't, the battle initially starts in the mind. There is no person who understood this better than Jesus. Look what He had to say to a group of his followers about one's mind.
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28, New King James Version
Say what? The person didn't even touch a woman! How could he have committed adultery? But he did. Jesus knew that every sin starts with a thought in the mind. He realized that if you control your thoughts, you will control sin. Going Back to Magic®. Look at the cards. What thoughts enter your mind? Are they good ones? Are they thoughts that help lead you closer to Christ or farther away Him? Getting past the cosmetics of the cards, the philosophies and religions that the cards are based on are those that oppose Christianity. Most cards are based on ancient pagan religions: Eastern Mysticism (New Age), Egyptian and Druid worship. Many of the Druid and Eastern beliefs are quoted at the bottom of cards. These beliefs center around gods/godesses with their powers coming from the hills, swamps, mountains, trees, skies, etc. They believe power also comes from one's inner self. I find it interesting that Magic is based on ancient religions yet Christianity, the world's largest religion, is hardly used as a source. My closing thougth, as the verse at the beginning of this passage stated, you become what you put into your mind. If you think about only good things, you can't be anything but good. If you put in negative things, they will corrupt the good. Period.


I think this is a good article to explain this, and it supports my personal views.

 

[Ryder]

I've got about 500-1000 cards I should unload one of these days, a good chunk of decently valuable cards too, or so I'm told. I don't play anymore, not because I decided the game was pure evil or nothin', but no-body I know plays anymore. A couple of computer games, paintball, sports, movies, cards just got squeezed out by everyone I know.

 

[Marcel]

So Noddingdog, where do you draw the line? Are sports wrong because they focus on defeating others? very unchristlike. Or how about fairytales? Dwarfs and fairies and dragons, mermaids... harmful? Is disney the devil?

Does thinking about going to the bathroom and taking a "number two" bring me closer to or further away from God?

This is important Noddingdog. Our souls are at stake!!! Tell us, please.

Thought-control... ewww brrrrrrrr!!! A cold chill just went down my spine and the hairs on the back of my neck are standing up straight.

"We don't need your education, we don't need yourr thought controll. Hey teacher, leave them kids alone!" (Pink Floyd)

 

[Caedmon]

I haven't gotten into it in the past, but now I'm seriously considering it. I classify this under the same category as all other fantasy. There's nothing inherently evil about it. I enjoy the gameplay concepts it uses, I think the art is cool, and I'm a fan of all mythology and folklore. In fact, the only down-side that I can see to it would probably be the cash you spend on it, but as long as you don't go bananas shelling out the bills for it, I think it's perfectly fine. Personally, my needs are taken care of, and I always give a gross tithe of my earnings to the Church, so my financial conscience is clear.

 

[Noddingdog]

So Noddingdog, where do you draw the line? Are sports wrong because they focus on defeating others? very unchristlike. Or how about fairytales? Dwarfs and fairies and dragons, mermaids... harmful? Is disney the devil?

Does thinking about going to the bathroom and taking a "number two" bring me closer to or further away from God?

This is important Noddingdog. Our souls are at stake!!! Tell us, please.

Thought-control... ewww brrrrrrrr!!! A cold chill just went down my spine and the hairs on the back of my neck are standing up straight.

"We don't need your education, we don't need yourr thought controll. Hey teacher, leave them kids alone!" (Pink Floyd)

Last time I checked, Marcel, you were not a Christian. When/if you accept Jesus as saviour, come back here and argue this point. If you are here to put forward sarcastic points and start a debate, well we have plenty of forums for that, but not this one. Just please don't try to start debating with me in the Collectables forum.

 

[Caedmon]

Hmmm... I thought that Christians and non-Christians were allowed in the Hobbies fora...

 

[Noddingdog]

Indeed, but Marcel is trying to argue a Christian issue in the Collectables forum. Hardly the right setting for an Apologetics debate

 

[pgamer310]

Two words....MAGIC RULES!!!

 

[jjc]

I'm pondering the same question myself but for different reasons as I'm not really interested in playing the game personally, but I'm looking to buy a store that sells these cards and I bring to this argument the point of view of a retail store/marketer.

My situtation is I currently have a business that only needed to work part-time and thus was asked by a friend who came down with cancer if I could run his store until his family could decide what to do with the store as he knew he'd pass away soon (5 days later actually).

The family has now finally felt ready to deal with the store and is encouraging me to buy it. Collector cards were not it's main focus by any means but they brought it in as a side item to help bring in a little extra cash. Surprisingly it makes a large portion of their income now. So it's a very attractive part financially for me to keep the card section of the store (especially magic cards - I have many clients that fork out at least $200-300 a month and some as high as $1000).

I've heard the "Satanic" arguement against these cards mostly because of the artwork or religions many of the cards are based around. Yet watching people playing the games they don't treat the cards any more seriously than they do buying boardwalk in Monopoly. And as for the battle side of the game it's no more evil than trying to destroy other armies and control the world in Risk.

Yet working in the store over 3 months, I noticed another concern with these cards. Though some come in and just like the game, many people are seriously addicted to it and it consumes them. They don't believe they are part of the game or anything but they actually think they must buy more even when it comes to the point they can't pay other bills. I worked in a family services type environment for about 6 years and can recognize addictions. I was surprised and shocked to see this with this game.

So I looked at the game more closely. Sure enough addiction counsellors get people in for addictions to this and other similarily designed games.

Most good games are addicting to some level (or people wouldn't play them over and over) but there is a big difference. Most games are designed in a way that everyone is on the same playing level at the start of the game with equal opportunity throughout the game.

This game however (and others that you can find people in addiction centres for) are designed in a way to let you buy or trade for a better deck giving you a higher possibility of winning. So with a "He with the most money wins" mentality it's easy for people to get convinced they must buy as much as they can so they can win. Many people can control this desire to be reasonable but there are still many who can't and actually start to believe they must literally try to buy everything they can...at all costs. In fact most professionals studying this behaviour argue most people can't control the addictive seduction of having more - if we could ads telling us we are not happy or beautiful without their product would anger us, not make us want it too.

This structure has the added bonus of then creating an enviroment where people are willing to pay inflated prices for a particular card. This creates another opening for an addiction where people beleive they can make thousands by getting in just to trade cards but then they need to buy and buy to try and create a full set. Now that's not to say people haven't made money but most people will not make money overall on ventures like this.

The success of this game relies on it's ability to get people addicted to buying more and more in peoples attempts to win or "make it big". It is this aspect that seperates this type of game from other games you will likely never see someone in a counselling office for.

Looking at that aspect and knowing there are plenty of other very good games that are not structured in a way you "need" to buy more or where you can buy stronger advantages for, I will most likely chose not to carry this game. Thus I can still provide people entertainment but I don't have to be profiting off many people addictions.

I understand that many people are simply addicted to shopping and know that getting rid of all retail stores is not the answer. People ALWAYS say "but where do you draw the line?" but I've also always noticed they ALWAYS use that as an excuse to not draw any lines and be irresponsible. First I believe there are many lines as the scale isn't left or right but 4 dimensional (yes I think time can change where lines are drawn). I believe I do have a responsibility to not use that excuse when there is at least one line that has more reasons to be drawn than not.

In the same way I don't think drinking alcohol in moderation is wrong, but I do believe it would be wrong of me to order it at a restaurant if someone at the same table or even a nearby table is a struggling recovering alcoholic as we've been commanded not to do things to cause our brother (or sister) to stumble. So as to the where do you draw the line argument...well the only reason not to draw the line in that situation is because I want to drink that where there are many reasons to draw it. A good rule of thumb in my faith is to put others needs intelligently before my own. I use the words intelligently as I don't believe Christ wanted us to be a doormat for abuse either.

 

[admtaylor]

I played that game when it first came out. Sold my cards a few years later to a comic book shop and netted about 300 dollars. They ended up making the game harder after the first few years and discontinuing some of the cards I had. The guy in the store said that people would actually pay good money for some of the cards I sold him. I don't even remember what they were, it's been 8 years or more. When did that game come out? Haven't played in a long time. Anyway I posted this comment because in that aspect this could fit in the collectibles section.

 

[Caedmon]

Buying addiction is definitely dangerous. I don't understand why they have to keep making new features in the game. You would think that they could stick with one "edition," rather than making all these changes and additions. At the core, the game can be reduced to just a few differnent types of cards, with slightly varying gameplay instructions. That would make it a lot easier on the checkbook. But capitalism is a bottomless pit, just IMO.

 

[Zoot]

I was brought up by Christians, in a small town, I was the eldest child. My parents were young and Christian. I grew up with vague fears of the evils my parents saw everywhere they looked - demons, Satanic influence, the occult and New Age.


I wasn't allowed to watch the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon, the Care Bears (white magic!), and I was only allowed to purchase Autobot transformers (Decepticons sounded too much like "deception"). An ironic side effect of this was that my games with my toys always resulted in some of the Autobots turning evil. And I wasn't allowed to watch Scooby Doo.

Somehow, despite my parents' Christian vigillance, I stumbled across the Dragonlance Chronicles when I was young, and also fell in with role-playing nerd crowds. My parents were suitably horrified, certain as they were that people who played D&D ended up worshipping Satan, dressing up and fighting with swords, and killing themselves. (Just ask Jack Chick!)

And then I played Magic: the Gathering when I was 15. That was 8 years ago. Man. Seems like only yesterday. Oh, how I loved my Vesuvan (sp?) Doppleganger. Yea! How I enjoyed using Sleight of Mind. And yet I retained a kind of aversion to cards like Demonic Attorney and Lord of the Pit (putting me at a distinct disadvantage with my five-colour deck).

Wait. What was my point again?

Oh yeah. This Chicken Licken style of seeing "demons" and "demonic influence" everywhere is a tricky little thing. It convinces you that something can make you evil without you realising it, and tells you that by their very nature you won't notice what's being done to you. Then you think, "I'm not noticing anything right now... MAYBE IT'S HAPPENING." And all that.

Magic: the Gathering is a game. You place cards. They have pictures. There are rules. You try to reduce your opponent's score zero. That's it. If you think looking at or reading things that occasionally depict demons can turn you evil, quit reading the Bible.

Nothing's out to get you. Especially not something that "is so derned tricksy that it's liable to say 'nothing's out to get you' just to make sure you're not ready for when it gets you."

 

[deadboy]

It is the worlds philosophy that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Some people should stay far from this game. It is up to each Christian individual to ask God to put it into their heart, the answer. I myself enjoy the game. I've been playing for many years. Do you feel guilty when you play? Ask God if you need to stop. Ask a friend for prayer. EVERYTHING is black and white. You just have to look at the heart. Is what you are doing distracting you from worshipping God? Do you spend money on cards and fail to tithe? Pray about it. And please don't bash the nonChristians. They need the love of God just as much as your brothers and sisters.

 

[Statikk HDM]

What's the big deal? If you are afraid of demons go isolate yourself from everything in the world.Also, only about 10 cards have a reference to demons. 10 out of over 6000! So, if you can't play MtG because of Fantasy no more comic books, sci-fi books and movies, etc. Cripes, no nothing!

 

[Noddingdog]

Man, that cookie had only 0.1 g of dog poop in it. 0.1 g out of 6000 g total! Now who wouldn't eat that cookie?

 

[Caedmon]

Man, that cookie had only 0.1 g of dog poop in it. 0.1 g out of 6000 g total! Now who wouldn't eat that cookie?

Of course, this analogy is conditional upon argumentation. There are ways to avoid evil associations.

1. The player acknowledges that the game may directly correlate with the real western world and Christianity, and chooses not to use the "demon" cards.
2. The player acknowledges that the game does not necessarily correlate with the real western world and Christianity, in which case "demon" does not have the same implications.

I use argument 2.

And yes, I would eat the cookie, if the poop was properly processed and reduced to powder form before being added to the dough.