Magic(k)

[sidhe]

Won't this do?

Okay, I can work on the beard.

Excellent silly hat!

Unfortunately, as I have an abnormally large head, I have no silly hat. I did at one point have a green wool hat with earflaps and a purple pom pom on top, but, alas, that was lost.

Sounds fine. Maybe it's like prayer. If you pray to find your car keys, you just might relax enough to remember where they are. Ta da! An answered prayer.

My usual prayer when my keys disappear:

"Okay, you frakkin' faeries, this isn't funny, and my keys aren't that shiny. Put 'em back."

Amazingly, it seems to work.

Did you know some people actually believe that a divine being is answering one's prayers? It's true. There are at least a dozen of such people. Maybe over a hundred.

Unpossible!

I tend to believe that infernal/amoral beings are more likely to be assisting me. Mainly because I'm more willing to boss 'em around...we have more in common.

Anyway, I suppose that if one mentally frames prayer, or magic(k) for that matter, as something hinting at supernatural powers, it might be more effective. Some might call that belief "faith".

I think it does, in fact, make it more effective by adding a second layer of removal from the individual. By appealing to an outside force, it makes it easier for any odd coincidence to be addressed ("God makes all things possible!").

I think Crowley was very clever at calling his techniques "magick". He even mangles the word to fit his numerology! LOL!

Hey, at least he had numerology. I've seen "majick" and "majik" as well, which seem to be more intended to make the writer "look like a fool."

 

[dingdong]

As with religion I think I'm better off away from this.

 

[Eudaimonist]

As with religion I think I'm better off away from this.

Then you probably are.

I'm not into this stuff myself. I tend to prefer climbing the other side of the mountain.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Wicked Willow]

That's not a hat, that's a hood.
Just sayin'!

There's also Magik, of course...

That's enough silliness for now, though. Let's return to the topic!
Isn't it interesting that we employ psychological terms to convey what we mean when talking about magick, even though it's a kind of anachronism? If anything, the Western Esoteric tradition and its immense popularity in the late 19th century influenced the genesis of psychoanalysis/modern psychology rather than vice versa.

 

[sidhe]

That's not a hat, that's a hood.
Just sayin'!

Quiet! It's an acceptable silly headdress, under the Silly Headdress Act of the Golden Dawn.

There's also Magik, of course...

Cute!

That's enough silliness for now, though. Let's return to the topic!

Never enough silliness.

Isn't it interesting that we employ psychological terms to convey what we mean when talking about magick, even though it's a kind of anachronism? If anything, the Western Esoteric tradition and its immense popularity in the late 19th century influenced the genesis of psychoanalysis/modern psychology rather than vice versa.

I, honestly, profoundly dislike discussing magick in psychological terms, but it makes it easier to communicate the ideas to those not familiar with the in-house terminology.

For instance, I would've explained most of this to my student as "The rites allow you to utilize your nephesh or shining body to interact with other divine and demonic entities and influence them to assist you in the realization of your Will, which is why maintaining elemental balance is essential. To maintain the proper macrocosmic/microcosmic balance as well, you would need to make sure you make according adjustments on the material plane here in malkuth."

Which is WAY more concise, but it uses far too many in-house terms.

 

[hikersong]

Basically, its an assumption of control and responsibility for one's own life and well-being.

Theres a flavor missing from this definition. Its not magickally delicious. Its so broad as to include any path aimed at perfection of character. Maybe thats what you intend?
.

I like the fact that it could include any path. One of the things that has been a big turn to off religion in general is the use of specialised language which puts up a wall of exclusivity between itself (name your religion) and the world at large. I'm not against the language per se. Only the way it is used to separate people into "the washed" and "the unwashed".

If a bricklayer can practise Magick without considering themselves to be a practitioner and yet be considered one by those who are Practitioners of Magick...well, that means the walls of language are not being used to keep people out, but simply to help certain groups of people (The Practitioners) understand their own lives a little better.

So, can I be a practiser of Magic simply by striving (willing) to be all that I can be?

 

[sidhe]

I like the fact that it could include any path. One of the things that has been a big turn to off religion in general is the use of specialised language which puts up a wall of exclusivity between itself (name your religion) and the world at large. I'm not against the language per se. Only the way it is used to separate people into "the washed" and "the unwashed".

Precisely, magick is not a religion. I'd compare it more to a martial art of the spirit and mind (in varying proportions depending on your view).

If a bricklayer can practise Magick without considering themselves to be a practitioner and yet be considered one by those who are Practitioners of Magick...well, that means the walls of language are not being used to keep people out, but simply to help certain groups of people (The Practitioners) understand their own lives a little better.

Precisely. It has nothing to do with Us vs. Them, but with "How can we understand the world better, and thus change it to make it more perfect?" Or something like that. I just ate lunch and am now sleepy.

So, can I be a practiser of Magic simply by striving (willing) to be all that I can be?

That depends. Do you understand what you want to be?

 

[hikersong]

That depends. Do you understand what you want to be?

Hmmm. Tempted to say that I simply want to be myself. But I suspect you're looking for a more concrete aspiration.

You've got me thinking, and I'm not sure if I can express it in words like " I want to be a brick-layer". Perhaps you could enlarge on the meaning of the question first. (In layman's terms naturally. None of this "utilizing your nephesh" business )

 

[sidhe]

Hmmm. Tempted to say that I simply want to be myself. But I suspect you're looking for a more concrete aspiration.

That's actually a good starting place. Who are you, and what would "being yourself" look like? Where do you stand in the universe?

You've got me thinking, and I'm not sure if I can express it in words like " I want to be a brick-layer". Perhaps you could enlarge on the meaning of the question first. (In layman's terms naturally. None of this "utilizing your nephesh" business )

If you want to be yourself, you have to define your terms. Remember the definition - Magick is an art and science, that means that unless you have defined your variables and the possibilities inherent in your experimentation, you haven't taken everything into account.

 

[Pure760]

Real magic is possible threw belief, if you believe long and hard enough anything, any power can be manifested but it is much more difficult doing it this way than to submit to God who will give you more power than you could ever imagine. God's magic is called miracles and can only be used for healing, not just touching somone and healing them.. But teleportation, time travel, materialization, astral travel, communication with the higher self of others (Their true ambitions).. You could even morph into Obama and takes over, if it is God's will. As long as you believe you could use this power selfishly it is impossible.. a sort of divine safety mechanism. This is why ego is useless because there is so much more to life when given up.

My only experience with earthly magic (not miracles i've performed) is years ago I met somone who claimed he was a warlock or somthing of that nature, a male witch. We were on a cruise with a casino inside, he took a quarter out of his pocket and said somthing like 'I'm down to my last quarter, follow me.' He walked into the casino, started scanning all the slot machines and chose one to put it in and pressed the button, he hit a jackpot of 400$, turned to me and said 'Is'nt magic fun?'

 

[hikersong]

...You could even morph into Obama and takes over, if it is God's will...

You're just too good Pure! How did you know?

 

[hikersong]

If you want to be yourself, you have to define your terms. Remember the definition - Magick is an art and science, that means that unless you have defined your variables and the possibilities inherent in your experimentation, you haven't taken everything into account.

OK. Well, I want to be a catalyst for hope and connection. I want to use my songwriting and singing to this end, and I want to remove (metaphorically at least) the microphone from the equation. I want to sing songs...to write songs...that are hopeful, and enable people in dark places to find a little light to move forward.

Music should be a face to face experience. I believe that Small is Beautiful but that the music industry has become, over the last 50 years, precisely that... an industry, big and smokey in a bad way. It should have been, as you express it, an art and a science. Magick! It has become a dinosaur that is now on the verge of extinction...it is a time of transformation, and in the future it won't be about massive fame and money but about local connections and craft. I would like to be a part of that...when the fledglings have flown (What I am now is a Children Grower )

Is that what you mean?

 

[durangodawood]

OK. Well, I want to be a catalyst for hope and connection. I want to use my songwriting and singing to this end, and I want to remove (metaphorically at least) the microphone from the equation. I want to sing songs...to write songs...that are hopeful, and enable people in dark places to find a little light to move forward.

Music should be a face to face experience. I believe that Small is Beautiful but that the music industry has become, over the last 50 years, precisely that... an industry, big and smokey in a bad way. It should have been, as you express it, an art and a science. Magick! It has become a dinosaur that is now on the verge of extinction...it is a time of transformation, and in the future it won't be about massive fame and money but about local connections and craft. I would like to be a part of that...when the fledglings have flown (What I am now is a Children Grower )

Is that what you mean?

I do drum magick, by the going definition in this thread.
.

 

[hikersong]

I do drum magick, by the going definition in this thread.
.

Sorry Willow if I've dragged it away from your specific intention.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Not at all! As with zen, pretty much everything can be turned into a magical act: arranging flowers, archery, repairing motorcycles, cleaning the yard...

Once you've learned a little bit about Magick, you realize that it's not something that you do, but something that you *are*. It's a question of perception, basically, and all the rituals and conventions of ceremonial magick are but accessories: useful tools rather than essential requirements.
Which is why merely reproducing rituals from a book won't do you much good, especially if it was originally used in a different historical or cultural context. Some symbols may be universal, but others are so culture-specific as to be virtually unintelligible to an outsider.
And this is also why "Chaos Magick" proves to be effective even if the magician in question bases his rituals on fictional deities taken from roleplaying games: as long as the symbolism matters and makes sense to you on a profound level, it doesn't even have to be "authentic" in the sense of being derived from a long-established tradition.

After all, the "Western Esoteric Tradition" started to experience a new renaissance only after the Theosophists had started to freely combine material from vastly different cultural backgrounds into a new, meaningful whole.

 

[Wicked Willow]

I think I've come up with another definition of magick that might help people to understand what I'm talking about:

Magick is the creative process of engendering potentially transformative meaning by means of symbols.

 

[sidhe]

I think I've come up with another definition of magick that might help people to understand what I'm talking about:

Magick is the creative process of engendering potentially transformative meaning by means of symbols.

I like that one.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Magick is the creative process of engendering potentially transformative meaning by means of symbols.

That's a fairly good definition of religion (at least some aspects of religion), although not perhaps from their perspective.

Unless, perhaps, "imitative" would be a better word choice than "creative"?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Wicked Willow]

No, an "imitative process of engendering meaning through symbols" is just a fancy description of a person talking or writing.

In order to turn the process into a potentially transformative experience, you need to include the creative aspect: a formation of new connections, a breaking of old categorizations, a visualization of deliberate synchronicity.

 

[Eudaimonist]

In order to turn the process into a potentially transformative experience, you need to include the creative aspect: a formation of new connections, a breaking of old categorizations, a visualization of deliberate synchronicity.

Ah, I don't think I quite grasped the meaning of your definition before. Well, there's a new connection.


eudaimonia,

Mark