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Made in Gods Image?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Clizby WampusCat, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    To quote eastern philosophy.. why not??
     
  2. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    Okay?

    Why not another claimed God? What compelled you to believe in the God for which you believe?
     
  3. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    Why is faith in God a good way to determine truth?
     
  4. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    Why should I believe the scriptures are true?
     
  5. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Simple. Take a look at mankind. Never able to resolve our default setting that creates all problems in the world simply because we cannot fix what is broken by using the same methods that broke it. We chase our tails. All creatures are a matter of survival of the fittest and are food for something else, humans included. What sets man apart is self awareness so unlike the rest of creation we serve self and seek gain at the expense of other on purpose, with no limit to our greed. We are out of balance with creation. Then we have God who right from the beginning said follow not our will but His will for it resolves the antagonism and oppression made by man by simply removing focus by choice on oneself and casting it upon others. In loving all as self there is no antagonism or oppression. He sent a man to represent His counter-culture and of course humans out to defend self interest, killed him for it. It's always the same.

    So who's way is better/ self serving man's or God's way which seeks to rectify the problem we create for ourselves rather than defend it ?
     
  6. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Simply believe the concept stated in #65 that the scriptures teach . The message is the truth, not the messenger.
     
  7. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    You believe it is true because you think it describes humanity correctly? #65 gives no basis to believe the bible is describing truth.

    People do good and bad things not just all bad things or selfish things. Most people do not live their lives per survival of the fittest. Most have morals and live by those which results in a mixed bag of actions.
     
  8. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Dual nature with the choice of which to follow. Yet none are exempt from choosing the wrong paths in times of temptation. Those who understand the wisdom of putting others before self interest thus understanding the consequences of their choice have a much better chance of keeping themselves 'moral' as you say. Of course there are those who could care less and it all or nothing for themselves and the beep with consequences others may suffer..

    Loving all has it's rewards. Loving an enemy is wiser.
     
  9. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    In essence, your belief in God looks to stem from (3) reasons?:

    1. Humans possess the unique trait of self awareness. If it was proven that any other species also possess self awareness, would this even matter? I'd say likely not... I'd even venture to say it would not really matter either way at all...


    2. There exists a Book, which states to love God above yourself, and to treat others like you would want to be treated.
    But couldn't humans also write/author such a set of rules (without) the actual existence of a God? I'd think so.... Humans write all kinds of stuff; including a bevy of opposing claims by other claimed god(s).

    3. There existed a man, whom claimed to be the Messiah, in which many follow(ed) and/or murdered. But hasn't this happened more than once in history?


    Well, since man exists, but we are not so sure God does, than this question might be moot. We only have "man's" way. If YHWH exists specifically, it would not matter what humans think. It would only matter what this God thinks, apparently.

    But quite honestly, I do not feel satisfied with your given response; as it does not really address my specific question. I'll rephrase, for convenience:

    Why do you know YHWH exists specifically, and that no other god(s) exist?



     
  10. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    Sure, how is this evidence that the bible is true?
     
  11. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking for more stimulating conversation than just being peppered with questions. Are you interested in making this a two-way conversation? For example, in what ways do you seek truth?
     
  12. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    According to God it would because he gives them a pass at being self serving because they do not have the knowledge of good and evil where they can manipulate and misuse it for gain.

    Yes providing they were oppressed enough to come up with a dream system where their suffering would be no more.

    Certainly. Say give peace a chance and people would go ballistic.
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Because His system unlike man's is perfect. Other gods exist in man's world but they all serve self.
     
  14. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Again, it is not the Bible that needs to be true but only this message within it.
     
  15. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    I am really only asking one question. Why do you think the bible is true?

    This is just a very basic summary but I start with some presuppositions:
    1. Solipsism is not true. What I perceive as reality does exist.
    2. The laws of logic are true and absolute.

    Then I evaluate claims using these very foundational presuppositions with proper skepticism, reason and logic. If I am convinced by the evidence then I will have to believe it, if not, then I can't. 100% certainty is impossible but we can know things with a high level of certainty.
     
  16. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    Semantics, what is the difference? How do you know the message is true then?
     
  17. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Because man is incapable of fixing or mess doing things our way, but if followed, God's way would fix it all. There is more truth in God's remedy than anything man has ever come up with.
     
  18. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    How can you support your claim that man is incapable of fixing our mess?

    When you say Gods way will fix it all you have assumed it is Gods way without giving good evidence that it is Gods way.

    Also, Just because you cannot think of a better plan does not mean that there is not a better plan. That is a subjective assessment. Can you give evidence that there cannot be a better plan? I can. A better plan would be for God to inform everyone that he exists and let them make an informed choice whether to follow him or not based on his requirements and his attributes. If someone decides not to follow his ways then they go to heaven just like everyone else. And that God intervenes in our world not to just help us find a parking spot but to stop child rape and such terrible crimes. If God is in charge of the world he is doing a miserable job.
     
  19. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    Then your given response does not differentiate, or even distinguish such pronouncements from other humans, verses, that of a "God". Please remember what I asked prior (i.e.):

    "But couldn't humans also write/author such a set of rules (without) the actual existence of a God?"

    For which you answered: "yes".


    If we agree that the Bible could be nothing more than a collection of human writings, then it looks as though all you may have left, to determine the Bible is inspired by a God, is wishful thinking; with no apparent or actual way to verify.
     
  20. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Because in thousands of years of existence, we never have.

    If it was man's plan it would have to fit into our default setting. It does not. It runs opposite. So the idea is not of man.
     
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