Macho Married Men

[Ana the Ist]

I'm posting this here, instead of the married men only section, because I'm curious to what extent women are aware what I'll describe here goes on and what they think of it. Foremost though, I'm interested in what the men have to say and if they've had/noticed similar situations.

I work in a very testosterone fueled environment. I can't go into great detail, but it's a high-risk federal law enforcement position. A lot of my coworkers are ex-military, ex-other law enforcement, or come from what I think most people would consider a very "manly" type job. I've noticed a certain pattern that occurs in the few times that we get together as coworkers (we usually work alone or in small teams, so the times I'm speaking of would be a more casual setting like a training day). The pattern is in the way guys speak about their wives.

Sometimes it's downright appalling. I'm not saying they refer to them in an insulting manner, but it seems that wives often get referred to like they were maids or help or even in a manner reminiscent of the way you would speak about a possession like a car. The attitudes that follow this are similarly degrading. It's hard to really put my finger on it...but it's almost as if it's somehow unmanly or uncool to speak about your wife as if you love and respect her. I'll give a few examples to show what I mean...

One instance a coworker asks me if I'm going to a local festival that was occurring the next weekend. He implied that I could probably find a sexy female there to take home. I tell him I'm married. He just smiles and laughs and says that, "well she doesn't have to go" the implication being that I could leave her home and go out cheating on her. I told him that I was happily married, to which he replies, "now I know you're lying" with a smile. I told him that my wife wasn't interested in that particular type of festival, and since my weekends are the most time I get to spend with her "we wouldn't be going." Now, I know this guy is married, and I'm fairly sure he doesn't cheat on his wife...but that's just it. Why would he think it funny to deny that I could be happily married and joke around about cheating? It's as if it's uncool to seem like you love your wife. Another example...

I'm out in public with a coworker and an attractive young lady goes walking by. He immediately asks if I would have sex with her. I tell him, no...I'm married. He says, yea..I know that...but what if you knew your wife would never find out? I tell him no...it wouldn't matter if my wife found out. To get this uncomfortable conversation off the topic of myself...I ask him if he would do it (he's married as well). He immediately replies with an enthusiastic "yes". I ask him why he would do it. He replies, "because sometimes you get tired of eating chicken and want to try a steak." Again, this is all said in a joking manner, so I can't know how serious he is...but it seemed fairly clear that the image he wanted to project was that of an adulterer...as if when guys speak to guys without our spouses around, this is the attitude to have. One last example...

I run into a coworker I hadn't seen/worked with in awhile and we were catching up. Topic had gotten to our wives after a bit, and I mentioned that mine is half white half filipino. He's surprised and says "isn't it great? My wife is full filipino!" I don't know what he means so I ask him "isn't "what" great?" He proceeds to tell me that since filipino women come from a very subservient culture...she basically does everything for him...he only works. I understand that some people think this is normal...but he proceeds to tell me with great pride all the things his wife is "required" to do for him. It was quite a list, believe me. I remember it included a foot-rub every day when he gets home before he eats the dinner she cooked. From the sound of it, his wife was more like hired help without the pay instead of a spouse. I just stared at him the whole time he's describing his control over his wife (it wasn't just pride,I think he thought I'd be impressed). When he finishes, I ask him what he does for her...and he proclaims that is the best part...nothing. He claimed that since he does so little for her, the slightest gesture of affection or kindness results in him getting treated "like a king" because she's so grateful. When he asks what my wife does for me...I told him that she isn't required to do a thing. He then shook his head like I had no idea what I was missing. I don't speak to him anymore lol.

I know I can't be the only guy who sees this attitude regularly. What do you guys think? Is it something that happens because we let it? Is it because we accept it as "the way guys are"? Or is there some deeper cultural explanation I'm not thinking of?

Frankly, I'd like to see it change. I'd like to be able to tell "the guys" that I had a good time this weekend taking my wife out to buy some new shoes without being laughed at.

 

[leothelioness]

And this is why I will never get married.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And this is why I will never get married.

Lol Please don't take that OP the wrong way. Not every guy I know is like this...but in those situations they just seem quiet. As if they wouldn't want to appear "weak" for loving their wife.

 

[Hetta]

I know I can't be the only guy who sees this attitude regularly. What do you guys think? Is it something that happens because we let it? Is it because we accept it as "the way guys are"? Or is there some deeper cultural explanation I'm not thinking of?

I prefer to think that men are much better than that, and one thing I try very hard to avoid thinking let alone saying is 'guys are like that' or 'that's just like a guy', in fact I get pretty irritated when I see those kind of memes making their way around the internet which paint men as doofuses (doofi?) who want nothing more of a woman than she make a sammich and open him a beer. Not in my house. And not in my experience of men in general. Some men, yes, just as some women fit a certain stereotype, but otherwise not.

I have seen that attitude though, mainly on forums. Some people think that a husband is "babysitting" - doing a special favor in other words - when he looks after his own kids while his wife goes out. Others think it's great if a husband "helps" with housework, rather than doing his part to maintain his home. IMO, it seems to be the last bastion of sexism.

it's almost as if it's somehow unmanly or uncool to speak about your wife as if you love and respect her

In some circles of Christianity, you will find that some individuals adhere to the concept that men want respect and women want love (Eggerich has made a fortune from this idea). However, the vast majority of men and women I have talked to would like both, please, so it's good to see a man talk about the importance of respecting his wife.

It seems to me from the examples that you give, that the men may just be indulging in macho talk. Nonetheless it is, imo, unhealthy, because I wonder whether the more a person thinks in those terms (the wife is chicken, the proposed mistress is steak), the less he begins to think of his wife, and the more he longs for an affair. Good for you for standing against that. I think that many people might go along with it to be 'one of the guys'. By standing against it, you are giving those guys a good example of a loving, respectful husband.

I don't know what to say about that the guy with the 'full Filipino' wife. I feel so utterly revolted by his attitude towards his wife. :/

 

[Ana the Ist]

I prefer to think that men are much better than that, and one thing I try very hard to avoid thinking let alone saying is 'guys are like that' or 'that's just like a guy', in fact I get pretty irritated when I see those kind of memes making their way around the internet which paint men as doofuses (doofi?) who want nothing more of a woman than she make a sammich and open him a beer. Not in my house. And not in my experience of men in general. Some men, yes, just as some women fit a certain stereotype, but otherwise not.

I have seen that attitude though, mainly on forums. Some people think that a husband is "babysitting" - doing a special favor in other words - when he looks after his own kids while his wife goes out. Others think it's great if a husband "helps" with housework, rather than doing his part to maintain his home. IMO, it seems to be the last bastion of sexism.

In some circles of Christianity, you will find that some individuals adhere to the concept that men want respect and women want love (Eggerich has made a fortune from this idea). However, the vast majority of men and women I have talked to would like both, please, so it's good to see a man talk about the importance of respecting his wife.

It seems to me from the examples that you give, that the men may just be indulging in macho talk. Nonetheless it is, imo, unhealthy, because I wonder whether the more a person thinks in those terms (the wife is chicken, the proposed mistress is steak), the less he begins to think of his wife, and the more he longs for an affair. Good for you for standing against that. I think that many people might go along with it to be 'one of the guys'. By standing against it, you are giving those guys a good example of a loving, respectful husband.

I don't know what to say about that the guy with the 'full Filipino' wife. I feel so utterly revolted by his attitude towards his wife. :/

Out of the three examples, that was the only time I remember actually being surprised by what I heard. He's a very laid back, easy going type guy and very humorous...so it surprised me to hear he treats his wife worse than I would treat a dog (and he seemed so proud of it, like he had her "trained"). I really left some of the worse parts out (she has to wash him in the shower, no joke). I don't speak to him anymore beyond a casual "hey, how's it going?" because of it...I simply don't want to be associated with him.

I guess where it causes me some conflict is the fact that I won't let anyone speak badly of my wife. If it were a friend to both my wife and myself, and they were making a joke, that would be one thing. As far as my coworkers go though, only 5-6 have actually met my wife. The conversation with the "chicken and steak" guy got real awkward real quick because he asked me "Do you know what I mean?" after that ridiculous chicken and steak comment. I told him flat out, "No...I don't know what you mean. Are you calling my wife a steak?" ...you can imagine it got a little uncomfortable from there because there were at least two other coworkers nearby who were chuckling at the whole thing.

Perhaps it's the nature of my work that lends itself to the pervasiveness of this attitude...I don't really know. Even after I wrote the OP I just kept coming up with more and more examples in my head. I had one guy tell me (after hearing I had been married for five years at the time) "Just wait until you've been married for 10 years...I'd rather mow my lawn at this point than have sex with my wife." I couldn't help but feel sorry for his wife.

I think maybe part of it stems from those men who are unhappy in their marriage and think that it must be the same for everyone else to some degree. It would be difficult to think that perhaps they married the wrong person or made some poor choices in their marriage and that's why they're not happy anymore. It's much easier to think everyone has the same issues and they're just trying to hide their displeasure as well.

 

[LinkH]

I think it's good of you to stand up for your principles. There are some kinds of humor that are damaging and negative, like the kind of adultery-promoting jokes you mentioned. I was thinking of 'comebacks' for their comments. For the man who suggested you go pick up a young woman, you could have said if he had to go out and pick up a young woman to have sex, maybe he should go to a marriage counselor. Or "I've got a sexy woman I can spend some time at home with on Saturday night. Why would I try to go out and pick up another one on Saturday night?" If you don't play along with the adultery jokes, the men will probably stop telling them around you.

I don't like jokes about marriage being a bad thing either. If men joke like that, you can talk about how good your marriage is. If theirs is lousy, maybe you'll at least let them know it doesn't have to be that way.

I wonder how the wife of the guy with the 'full-Filippino' wife feels about all this. It's fine if a woman loves her husband and wants to give him a foot rub every night, but if he loves her back, he should want to do good things for her, too. For some reason, it reminds me of this expatriate-- a Caucasian, but I don't remember from what country-- who used to live in my neighborhood in Indonesia. I heard about this guy who had a 'contract wife' who looked like a maid. I met them in the neighborhood. They were on the porch and she was giving him a massage, rubbing his shoulders and his temples and stuff like that. She was a cute, but a little dark skinned, which may be why locals considered her to look like a made. Girls that were a little dark were considered unattractive, and locals were sometimes confused why foreign men would go for the darker girls. She was a good bit younger than he was. But I don't know if they'd made a contract for him to be married to her for a certain period of time and then break it off. There is apparently an industry for that up in the mining camps. It's kind of like a form of prostitution. If she was, then the massages and that sort of thing could have been part of the deal. Or maybe that was just a way of showing love and kindness to her husband. I wonder if this guy who got the 'full-Filippino wife' wnet over there, found a desperate woman, and made a deal for all this stuff in exchange for marrying her, or laid a bunch of requirements on her after she got to the US. Technically, suppose she could rub his feet for two years and take off with a greencard. But a lot of Filippinos are really big believers in staying married and being faithful. That's a good thing about their culture.

The man could have been nicer to his wife than he let on, especially if talking like that is part of the culture of the workplace, and he wanted to brag on how good his wife was to him and how dominant he was. Still, that's not cool.

The weird thing about this thread is I keep hearing the title of the thread to the tune of an old village people's song, which really wasn't that macho.

 

[Lollerskates]

I'm posting this here, instead of the married men only section, because I'm curious to what extent women are aware what I'll describe here goes on and what they think of it. Foremost though, I'm interested in what the men have to say and if they've had/noticed similar situations.

I work in a very testosterone fueled environment. I can't go into great detail, but it's a high-risk federal law enforcement position. A lot of my coworkers are ex-military, ex-other law enforcement, or come from what I think most people would consider a very "manly" type job. I've noticed a certain pattern that occurs in the few times that we get together as coworkers (we usually work alone or in small teams, so the times I'm speaking of would be a more casual setting like a training day). The pattern is in the way guys speak about their wives.

Sometimes it's downright appalling. I'm not saying they refer to them in an insulting manner, but it seems that wives often get referred to like they were maids or help or even in a manner reminiscent of the way you would speak about a possession like a car. The attitudes that follow this are similarly degrading. It's hard to really put my finger on it...but it's almost as if it's somehow unmanly or uncool to speak about your wife as if you love and respect her. I'll give a few examples to show what I mean...

One instance a coworker asks me if I'm going to a local festival that was occurring the next weekend. He implied that I could probably find a sexy female there to take home. I tell him I'm married. He just smiles and laughs and says that, "well she doesn't have to go" the implication being that I could leave her home and go out cheating on her. I told him that I was happily married, to which he replies, "now I know you're lying" with a smile. I told him that my wife wasn't interested in that particular type of festival, and since my weekends are the most time I get to spend with her "we wouldn't be going." Now, I know this guy is married, and I'm fairly sure he doesn't cheat on his wife...but that's just it. Why would he think it funny to deny that I could be happily married and joke around about cheating? It's as if it's uncool to seem like you love your wife. Another example...

I'm out in public with a coworker and an attractive young lady goes walking by. He immediately asks if I would have sex with her. I tell him, no...I'm married. He says, yea..I know that...but what if you knew your wife would never find out? I tell him no...it wouldn't matter if my wife found out. To get this uncomfortable conversation off the topic of myself...I ask him if he would do it (he's married as well). He immediately replies with an enthusiastic "yes". I ask him why he would do it. He replies, "because sometimes you get tired of eating chicken and want to try a steak." Again, this is all said in a joking manner, so I can't know how serious he is...but it seemed fairly clear that the image he wanted to project was that of an adulterer...as if when guys speak to guys without our spouses around, this is the attitude to have. One last example...

I run into a coworker I hadn't seen/worked with in awhile and we were catching up. Topic had gotten to our wives after a bit, and I mentioned that mine is half white half filipino. He's surprised and says "isn't it great? My wife is full filipino!" I don't know what he means so I ask him "isn't "what" great?" He proceeds to tell me that since filipino women come from a very subservient culture...she basically does everything for him...he only works. I understand that some people think this is normal...but he proceeds to tell me with great pride all the things his wife is "required" to do for him. It was quite a list, believe me. I remember it included a foot-rub every day when he gets home before he eats the dinner she cooked. From the sound of it, his wife was more like hired help without the pay instead of a spouse. I just stared at him the whole time he's describing his control over his wife (it wasn't just pride,I think he thought I'd be impressed). When he finishes, I ask him what he does for her...and he proclaims that is the best part...nothing. He claimed that since he does so little for her, the slightest gesture of affection or kindness results in him getting treated "like a king" because she's so grateful. When he asks what my wife does for me...I told him that she isn't required to do a thing. He then shook his head like I had no idea what I was missing. I don't speak to him anymore lol.

I know I can't be the only guy who sees this attitude regularly. What do you guys think? Is it something that happens because we let it? Is it because we accept it as "the way guys are"? Or is there some deeper cultural explanation I'm not thinking of?

Frankly, I'd like to see it change. I'd like to be able to tell "the guys" that I had a good time this weekend taking my wife out to buy some new shoes without being laughed at.

I hear you loud and clear bro. Be warned; my thread similar to this got shut down - by women. I am not a macho man; I would be considered an "omega man," confident, but patient and behind the scenes. I am also an introvert. I would very much like to see "the game" upgraded, and changed for the better - and in favor of women.

Maybe I am revamping my old thread, but it should be common knowledge that ken like chases. If it was required that men be noble, loyal, gentlemanly, patient, honest, intelligent, respectful, etc. to "get it," the world would be in a quasi-eutopia. That is my opinion.

 

[akmom]

Frankly, I'd like to see it change. I'd like to be able to tell "the guys" that I had a good time this weekend taking my wife out to buy some new shoes without being laughed at.

Well, you have to be a little realistic. If you don't want laughed at, at least modify it to taking your wife out to buy some new guns.

I think the thing to remember here is that humor is a really enjoyable social act. Not everyone craves humor or appreciates it the same way, but for most people it is relaxing and bonding. And humor is inherently sad, bad or otherwise "wrong." It is impossible to make a joke that, when taken literally, isn't one of those things. Taking your wife shoe-shopping may be pleasant, but it will never, ever be funny. Unless it involves some tragedy happening to you or your wife during the ordeal!

It may be that you aren't someone who appreciates humor much. Some people just don't. Or maybe they are going too far with the humor, or making jokes that are just not your taste. Asking if he is calling your wife a steak is actually a really great response, because it's such an absurd way to miss the point that it's funny on its own. But I don't think you'll get far refuting humor with seriousness. And honestly, how they joke about their wives (though tasteless) says little about their marriage and more about their sense of humor. True bullies hide their behavior, I think. For all you know, their wives are really tyrants and this "guy talk" is their mental escape!

My brother-in-law used to explain any injury with "I talked back to my wife." It's a joke suggesting that she beats him, which is funny because it's so unlikely, and also because most of the "injuries" were clearly from another cause. That's a less chauvinistic - though still misogynistic - form of humor, chosen for its co-ed audience rather than its actual reflection of their marriage. You can appreciate it for its unspoken intent of amusing, bonding and relaxing. Or you can reject it as not your brand of humor. But you probably can't influence others' marital relationships by the way you respond to their attempted humor.

 

[Odetta]

The problem with jokes like that is that some people don't get that it's a joke and take what is said seriously, or even if they recognize it as a joke, think there must be some kernel of truth to it. Or consider it in such poor taste, that it ruins their impression of the person and causes them to lose respect for them - much like the OP did with the guy with Filipino wife.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I know what you mean, OP, but in a less hostile manner than the examples you gave. I had (notice "had") a circle of friends who would complain about their wives, mostly about not giving them enough sex. Probably because there was one guy who kept boasting about his sex life. We'd be in the middle of a poker game and this guy would get a text/call from his girlfriend (who later became his wife). He'd say we need to wrap it up because his woman wants sex (usually spoken in a much more vulgar way, though). Then the other guys would start telling how little sex they got.

It got old after a while. I moved on. Plus, I was the only Christian in the group.

I'm glad to hear you don't associate much with the full filipino wife guy. As for the others, I guess it's up to you on which way to go with the rest.

As I see it, you have at least 3 options:

1. Continue going out with "the guys" and not change a thing;
2. Continue going out with "the guys" and tell stories of the "healthy" things you and your wife do together;
3. Don't go out with the guys anymore and/or find a different group to hang out with.

#1 will keep your social calendar active. #2 may decrease invitations to social engagements. #3 may require a lot of effort, a less active social life, and/or more time to do things with your wife.

Good luck to ya!

 

[Ana the Ist]

I hear you loud and clear bro. Be warned; my thread similar to this got shut down - by women. I am not a macho man; I would be considered an "omega man," confident, but patient and behind the scenes. I am also an introvert. I would very much like to see "the game" upgraded, and changed for the better - and in favor of women.

Maybe I am revamping my old thread, but it should be common knowledge that ken like chases. If it was required that men be noble, loyal, gentlemanly, patient, honest, intelligent, respectful, etc. to "get it," the world would be in a quasi-eutopia. That is my opinion.

I'm really curious now to know what your previous thread was all about. It must've been a doozy.

After thinking some more, I guess what really bothers me is the casual implications that I share whatever attitude towards my wife that the person making the comment/joke is displaying. When single coworkers talk this way, it really doesn't bother me at all. I don't even mind if the married one's speak frankly about when they were single... or if they feel the need to speak plainly about some marriage issue they're having. I understand that when guys try to relate to one another joking is often the way they go about it. Speaking openly about one's feelings isn't "manly" in of itself...so the joke gets told in hopes that the teller isn't "alone" in his situation.

Perhaps I take it too personally. It's not like I have to point out to the other posters here that I'm an atheist, but that word means almost nothing in defining who I am. What I'm getting at is I only hold one thing in my life that I would consider using the word "sacred" to describe...and that's the marriage vow I gave to my wife. No other words I've spoken could ever mean more to me. I don't want to draw a poor comparison, but if the christians here could imagine a workplace attitude that made light of everyone's faith in Jesus...you would probably be at odds with it. That's how I feel if anyone makes light of my marriage vow to my wife.

Maybe I just need to loosen up though.

I appreciate all the responses so far. Very insightful. Thank you.

 

[Hetta]

my thread similar to this got shut down - by women.

And here was I thinking that staff actions are confidential. How would you know who got your thread shut down? (I don't know anything about that thread btw.)

 

[akmom]

I don't like certain kinds of humor either. For me, it's dirty jokes and profanity. I just don't find them funny. I understand why it's funny to others (the jokes typically don't go over my head or anything), but I don't laugh or reciprocate them. I also don't criticize others' humor, try to "change" them, or blow them off in general because I didn't like the jokes they told. Some people are actually awful and worth avoiding, but a difference in humor (in my opinion) does not qualify.

You can respond to your peers any way you want, but you should consider the sacrifices you might be making in doing so. These are the people you work with. This is a common attitude among the people you work with. Do you really want to alienate yourself socially from that many people? Will there be any professional consequences for doing so? I am not talking about big things like getting fired or having colleagues conspire against you. I'm talking about possibly small things, such as a colleague not thinking of you when they make recommendations, or future job references lacking enthusiasm when they describe your qualities. There are advantages to being friendly, and if you constantly reject people's humor and go on a crusade to change their attitudes about women, you probably aren't nurturing those connections. Ironically, you probably aren't inspiring them to treat their wives any differently either. So I guess it's about choosing your battles.

I am curious what an atheist hopes to gain from a Christian marriage forum?

 

[seeingeyes]

I know I can't be the only guy who sees this attitude regularly. What do you guys think? Is it something that happens because we let it? Is it because we accept it as "the way guys are"? Or is there some deeper cultural explanation I'm not thinking of?

Frankly, I'd like to see it change. I'd like to be able to tell "the guys" that I had a good time this weekend taking my wife out to buy some new shoes without being laughed at.

My husband speaks of this, too. He's a computer geek type so he works primarily with men. They are not "macho" by any stretch (hehehe), but they also complain about their wives quite a bit. Primarily that they never have sex.

I asked my husband what he responds and he said that he doesn't say anything. He just feels bad for them. lol

Women complain about their husbands a lot, too. (Goodness...I know stuff about other people's husbands that I wish I could wash out of my brain. Seriously.) Perhaps it's a bonding thing. Misery loves company and all that.

I don't think you can change the culture, but you don't have to succumb to it yourself. Be that one guy who loves his wife and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't like certain kinds of humor either. For me, it's dirty jokes and profanity. I just don't find them funny. I understand why it's funny to others (the jokes typically don't go over my head or anything), but I don't laugh or reciprocate them. I also don't criticize others' humor, try to "change" them, or blow them off in general because I didn't like the jokes they told. Some people are actually awful and worth avoiding, but a difference in humor (in my opinion) does not qualify.

You can respond to your peers any way you want, but you should consider the sacrifices you might be making in doing so. These are the people you work with. This is a common attitude among the people you work with. Do you really want to alienate yourself socially from that many people? Will there be any professional consequences for doing so? I am not talking about big things like getting fired or having colleagues conspire against you. I'm talking about possibly small things, such as a colleague not thinking of you when they make recommendations, or future job references lacking enthusiasm when they describe your qualities. There are advantages to being friendly, and if you constantly reject people's humor and go on a crusade to change their attitudes about women, you probably aren't nurturing those connections. Ironically, you probably aren't inspiring them to treat their wives any differently either. So I guess it's about choosing your battles.

I am curious what an atheist hopes to gain from a Christian marriage forum?

Do you mean in regards to this OP or or the forum in general? If you meant this OP, I really was just curious as to what other men thought...if they experienced this sort of thing regularly (or if maybe it was something that I notice more often because of the type of work I do and the type of guy it appeals to)....or even just hearing a similar experience. I don't think I have a particularly hard time dealing with this issue, it's not as if I'm flying into some speech about how they should behave and think. I'm actually quite laid back and non-judgement with my coworkers...and I make my fair share of jokes too. This is really more of a pet peeve than an issue that causes any difficulty.

If you meant what did I hope to gain from the forum in general...I guess the answer would be an "outside perspective" from time to time. I'm looking to give more than I'm looking to gain anything. I have a fantastic marriage. I love my wife more than I thought was possible between two people...and I'm not exaggerating at all. We have an amazing relationship, I could go on and on talking about it, but I don't like to come off as bragging. I realize that all my past successes and failures at relationships is valuable knowledge to some people who are currently struggling...or could end up struggling in the future. I'd like to think that maybe at some point something I said helped someone in their relationship. Obviously since I'm an atheist I'm not going to tread onto anyone's matters of spirituality/religion/faith. This isn't the place for me to challenge anyone's beliefs or argue against them in any matter...so some threads I avoid entirely even if I'd like to comment.

I've actually considered sharing a rather difficult story concerning a tragedy that struck my wife just over a year into our marriage. I'll probably post it tomorrow. I really hope sharing it could help someone who finds themselves in a similar situation one day. I'd love it if you looked for it tomorrow and told me what you think.

 

[Inkachu]

This is how the world works apart from Christ. People are shallow, selfish, and hard-hearted. My husband also works in a very "manly" industry (computers) and hears the wife/family jokes and slurs all the time. He does not participate in those discussions because he openly adores and admires his wife and loves his role as husband and father.

I rarely hear the women I work with bad-mouth their husbands. And I mean VERY rarely. I couldn't tell you the last time I heard something like that.

Men are much more about status and position than women are. Making themselves look powerful (ie, uncaring and emotionless) and talking about their wives as they might talk about a dog or a car or a bank account - in their minds - makes them look strong and in charge. Of course, in reality, and especially in the light of Christianity, they just look foolish and selfish and like a bunch of bungholes.

 

[Lollerskates]

And here was I thinking that staff actions are confidential. How would you know who got your thread shut down? (I don't know anything about that thread btw.)

From the responses. Seven people responded besides my OP: five were relatively negative female replies, one indifferent female reply, and one marginally positive/indifferent male response. One woman give me props/reps, but did not respond.

 

[Lollerskates]

I'm really curious now to know what your previous thread was all about. It must've been a doozy.

I would't know. As I was trying to respond, I realized the thread was closed when I couldn't find the "quote" buttons anywhere. It was closed, I would say, within two hours.

After thinking some more, I guess what really bothers me is the casual implications that I share whatever attitude towards my wife that the person making the comment/joke is displaying. When single coworkers talk this way, it really doesn't bother me at all. I don't even mind if the married one's speak frankly about when they were single... or if they feel the need to speak plainly about some marriage issue they're having. I understand that when guys try to relate to one another joking is often the way they go about it. Speaking openly about one's feelings isn't "manly" in of itself...so the joke gets told in hopes that the teller isn't "alone" in his situation.

Perhaps I take it too personally. It's not like I have to point out to the other posters here that I'm an atheist, but that word means almost nothing in defining who I am. What I'm getting at is I only hold one thing in my life that I would consider using the word "sacred" to describe...and that's the marriage vow I gave to my wife. No other words I've spoken could ever mean more to me. I don't want to draw a poor comparison, but if the christians here could imagine a workplace attitude that made light of everyone's faith in Jesus...you would probably be at odds with it. That's how I feel if anyone makes light of my marriage vow to my wife.

Maybe I just need to loosen up though.

I appreciate all the responses so far. Very insightful. Thank you.

I understand. I personally dont think you need to loosen up. Some guys need someone that is a peer to say, "Hey guys, that's enough." I know of a lot of men that laugh at jokes to be social, but inside they boil.

 

[seeingeyes]

From the responses. Seven people responded besides my OP: five were relatively negative female replies, one indifferent female reply, and one marginally positive/indifferent male response. One woman give me props/reps, but did not respond.

Try it again. Let's see if we can do better this time.

I don't remember the thread in question. I'm quite sure I didn't report it, though.

 

[seeingeyes]

I understand. I personally dont think you need to loosen up. Some guys need someone that is a peer to say, "Hey guys, that's enough." I know of a lot of men that laugh at jokes to be social, but inside they boil.

That's very true. One well-timed, "that's not cool, man" can make all the difference.