• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Lying

Discussion in 'Hamartiology' started by bcbsr, Nov 9, 2019 at 9:07 AM.

  1. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

    +1,937
    Christian
    Lying

    Col 3:9
    Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices

    Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father‘s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    Lev 19:11 "’Do not steal. "’Do not lie. "’Do not deceive one another."

    Re 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    Re 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars— their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

    And by the way, lying involves not only the intention to deceive. A lie occurs when one says anything which is false regardless of whether one does so intentionally to deceive or not. Thus Christians should be diligent to check out the facts as to what is actually true and false and not gullibly rely upon mindless indoctrinationand end up lying concerning things of which they are ignorant. Then they can be more confident when they claim they are "speaking the truth in love" Eph 4:15a
    The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +5,566
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others

    "Intention to deceive" is part of the formal definition of lying.
    Sorry.
     
  3. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

    +1,937
    Christian
    Just like ignorance of the law is no excuse, so also saying things that are false because you didn't do your research is also no excuse.

    1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
     
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +5,566
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Yah.....that's not what it says about lying.

    It says "If we say that we have fellowship with Him"
    and then we do not do what we say
    then
    we are lying.

    What is lying?
    verb (used without object), lied, ly. · ing. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

    Again entomology wins every time.
    And research:
    What Does the Bible Say About Lying?

    Not one passage that equates ignorance with lying.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 10:13 AM
  5. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

    +1,937
    Christian
    There are those who sincerely don't believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. (Such as the apostle Paul prior to his conversion) Yet it says.

    1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

    So regardless of their sincerity the Bible still classifies them as liars.

    Better to rely upon the Bible to define what the Bible means rather than dictionaries.
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +5,566
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Still your ignorance definition fails.
    Keep trying!
     
  7. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

    +1,937
    Christian
    Paul says, "Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief." 1Ti 1:13

    Paul had denied Jesus is the Christ at that time. The Bible says, "Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?" Paul says he did it in ignorance.

    Therefore it is proven that people can be ignorant that they are liars.
     
  8. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member Supporter

    513
    +200
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, ψεύστης, which is translated "liar," can also mean "one who breaks faith, a false or faithless man." So, it seems like the "liar" the Apostle John refers to is one who had originally known the truth, rather than someone who is ignorant of the truth.
     
  9. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

    +1,937
    Christian
    As you say "in can also mean", which is not to restrict the word to that meaning alone. As for 1John 2:22 you hypothesize that John is referring to people who used to believe that Jesus is the Christ but now deny he is the Christ. Yet there's nothing in the context to indicate that restriction.
     
  10. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member Supporter

    513
    +200
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    Excellent. Let's review the context:

    18 Little children, it is the last hour. As you have heard that the antichrist will come, even now there are many antichrists. By this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us. But they went out, revealing that none of them were of us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have written to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? Whoever denies the Father and the Son is the antichrist.

    If "they went out from us" they they had known the truth.

    I would agree with you that a preacher who doesn't check the facts before giving a sermon is a liar. I wouldn't uphold unbelievers to the same standard, it doesn't matter whether they're liars or not. They're unredeemed anyway.
     
Loading...