Lust...a few thoughts

[Verve]

I started thinking about this topic last night on my drive to my second job.

How so many people confuse sexuality with lust and I think I finally came to a sold definition for myself of what lust is and does.

Lust is the dehumanization of sexual action or desire.

When people lust they aren't looking at that man or woman with love.

If they stopped to think about how proud the person they were looking at probably was the first time they scrawled their name in crayon on a piece of paper, the joy in the eyes of those witnessing their first words or steps...it would probably stop the desire right then and there.

This is the reason worldly advertising is so effective. They don't just use sex to sell, they use lust. They dehumanize the models often showing only parts of them or turning them into the product.

Look at the world of pornography, alternate sexual lifestyles (open marriages, BDSM, etc...) , prostitution, strip clubs, sex trafficking, and consider how dehumanizing all of those things are.

I think this is part of the reason that some Christians seem to be ashamed or quiet about sexuality. Is it ok for a Christian to desire an intimate bond, including physical, with a member of the opposite sex? Of course! That's why God gave us marriage!

Making love in the context of marriage is far from dehumanizing it is actually the opposite. It is meant to bring the couple closer together as they learn more about each other and allow their love to grow stronger.

Maybe I'm making assumptions, because I've never been married, but that's what it seems like to me.

 

[Thunder Peel]

EDIT:

I'm not very good at being able to put my thoughts into coherent posts. I didn't mean to derail the thread.

 

[Tink]

The two of you are very wise. Quite a terrific combination, actually.

I agree with your posts, btw, in case that wasn't apparent.

 

[Inkachu]

Not sure I would call it "dehumanization" because I think it's perfectly possible to lust after someone you know and care about, and even love (but aren't married to). IMHO lust is uncontrolled, uninhibited, unchecked desire for something that doesn't belong to you. That might be a porn image, or it might be someone you know in every day life. I think the OP's points are spot-on when it comes to porn, prostitution, etc (which are definitely "dehumanized" sexual sins). But "lust" covers SO much more than just those particular sexual sins. Just my 2 cents!

 

[Blank123]

VT. I love your brain.

 

[Stravinsk]

Good posts by VT and Thunder.

It is possible to lust within marriage - even when you care about someone. The sexual desire itself - or even a strong sexual desire itself is not the lust - it is the fact that it is in someway twisted or is not constrained by the bounds of consideration and love and moral law.

I think of lust as differing from sexual desire in that it is not constrained by moral law. Unchecked desire for your neighbor's wife would be an example. Or for a person you know you will not marry. Within marriage - union that isn't by mutual consent, or is inconsiderate in some way. Or otherwise breaks moral law in the forms of "open" marriages (ugh!) and so forth.

One exception I'd take to VT's (and Thunder's) view is that in order for sexual desire to be "pure" with a married partner it must be void of all self.

I take exception to this because once you are married and are having regular sexual intercourse - it becomes a physical desire by reason of the practiced habit. I do not think it is possible to at all times think of the person you are married to in the highest terms possible. There will be spats, disagreements, disappointments and so forth. They will let you down in some way in some form. Thus, in order for there to be "purity" in the sexual union one would have to deny the physical until there is complete and "purity" of love - absent all conflict.

Most people find out within their first year of marriage that it isn't the unending bliss they thought it was going to be. Learning to live with another is a *work* that love must overcome through patience, compassion, dedication and forgiveness. And the sexual desire doesn't just stop because that love is not perfect at all times.

 

[Tink]

Most people find out within their first year of marriage that it isn't the unending bliss they thought it was going to be. Learning to live with another is a *work* that love must overcome through patience, compassion, dedication and forgiveness. And the sexual desire doesn't just stop because that love is not perfect at all times.

QFT.

 

[Verve]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this!

Yeah, I'm sure that the first year of marriage is a steep learning curve.

Marriage is made of two flawed and forgiving people who have chosen to do that work together.

I think what Thunder may have meant when speaking of selflessness, as Strav put it, is that if you're married physical intimacy is so much more than selfishly "getting some"... rather the depth of your relationship would allow you to delight in their physical pleasure as much as in your own. The whole two being one thing.
At least that's what I read into it. You can correct me if I'm wrong Austin.

 

[Thunder Peel]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this!

Yeah, I'm sure that the first year of marriage is a steep learning curve.

Marriage is made of two flawed and forgiving people who have chosen to do that work together.

I think what Thunder may have meant when speaking of selflessness, as Strav put it, is that if you're married physical intimacy is so much more than selfishly "getting some"... rather the depth of your relationship would allow you to delight in their physical pleasure as much as in your own. The whole two being one thing.
At least that's what I read into it. You can correct me if I'm wrong Austin.

Yeah, that's what I meant. You said it much better than I did. I edited my post because it didn't make any sense. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Verve]

Yeah, that's what I meant. You said it much better than I did. I edited my post because it didn't make any sense. Sorry for the confusion.

Your post was just fine, I was clarifying the point you made, it was a great post...
You didn't derail the thread at all.

 

[Tink]

Your post was just fine, I was clarifying the point you made, it was a great post...
You didn't derail the thread at all.

Agree with Caitydid.

 

[Paulie079]

I think that dehumanization happens in the context of sexual lust, but one can lust for other things as well. I think a lot of what happens with sex and lust, though, is that people can confuse good, God-glorifying pleasure and sinful pleasure so that they can't enjoy sex at all without guilt.