LUKE CHAPTERS 19, 21, 23 AND REVELATION "DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM 70AD"

[claninja]

If you say that Jesus made the Old Covenant Mosaic Law obsolete through his completed work, then God's measuring plumline from the Cross (sign of Jonah) and onwards is no longer the Mosaic Law.

Zechariah's prophesy said: do not despair over the small beginnings; God will see to it that the temple is completed, and God the Holy Spirit will oversee the project to its completion for his hands shall finish it. “Whoever has despised the day of small things shall rejoice, and shall see the plumb line in the hand of God” (Zechariah 4:10).

The term plumb line is used in Scripture in several contexts. The Lord pictures Himself as a builder in Isaiah 28: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation” (Isaiah 28:16). This is a promise of an unshakeable kingdom, with the Messiah in charge. Jesus Christ is the “precious cornerstone” (see Mark 12:10; Acts 4:11; Romans 9:33; 1 Peter 2:6). As the Lord builds His kingdom, He will ensure it is perfect in every way: “I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line” (Isaiah 28:17). There will be no crookedness/sin in the kingdom of Christ.

So if Christ is the justice measuring line and his righteousness the plumb line for God to dispense His judgement, then the mosaic law irrespective of the desolate house continuing in it is never the measuring plumb line that God uses in dispensing judgement.

The Law states God was going to raise up a prophet from Israel. Israel, per the Law, was commanded to listen to him
Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen

As per the Law, those that would not listen to this prophet, would be held accountable.
Deuteronomy 18:19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

Cursed would be anyone who did not listen to the commands of the Law by doing them. This includes listening to the prophet like moses (Jesus) that God would raise up.
Deuteronomy 27:26 ‘Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’


Jesus, the prophet like moses that God would raise up, describes the punishment for those who did not listen to him or recognize his timing.
Luke 19:44 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

So yes, old covenant, unfaithful Israel, who rejected Christ, was cursed according to the Law for not listening to Jesus.

The mosaic law vanished at the Cross, because it ceased to being the measuring benchmark/plumbline by which God dispenses judgement.

This directly contradicts scripture. Hebrews and 2 corinthians were written after the cross. Using the present tense, the old covenant was desribed as growing old, aging, and fading away.
Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is growing old and aging is ready to vanish away.
2 Corinthians 3:11 For if what is fading away came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

You would be mistaken, because it would imply that God still used it as his justice measuring line and its righteousness the plumb line in dispensing judgement.

The Law specifically states that those that did not listen to the prophet raised up like moses would be held accountable. The Israelites were commanded to follow all of the law or otherwise be cursed. Thus those that would not listen to Jesus would be cursed according to the law. This means destruction
Deuteronomy 28:45 All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that he commanded you.

So it is clear, cut and dry that when the priesthood was changed according to Hebrews, then the mosaic law no longer became a measuring plumb line for God. Since God changed the mosaic law to Christ's Law, then the Cross (sign of Jonah) is when the Old Covenant ceased to be God's benchmark for dispensing His judgement.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Those that rely on the works of the law and do not do ALL of things written are cursed. Ironically, following the Law requires listening to Jesus and obeying him (deuteronomy 18). Thus those of the old covenant who relied on the law and rejected Jesus are cursed to destruction.
Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

Regardless of the Jews continuing to observe the law, the act would be seen by God as defiance and an abomination.

I agree, not because the Law is bad, God forbid. But because sin's power comes from the Law. And sin uses the law to bring death. Ironically, according to Deuteronomy 18, it is impossible to reject Christ AND follow the law. Any time we rely on our own works to please God, we are actually defying God.

To even suggest that two agreements existed in God's hands for 40 years is to denigrate the Cross and the Father's character.

I think here is where the misunderstanding comes in. These are not 2 fully in-effect covenants co-existing at the same time. There is one obsolete covenant that was ready to vanish, of which had Jews in slavery. The other covenant, the New covenant was established at the cross.

In the new covenant, the Law is fulfilled in believers because of Christ's death. However, those who remained slaves to the old obsolete covenant, who rejected, Christ, faced the cursed of the Law.

Hebrews 10:9 Then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

God had discarded the Old Covenant agreement at the Cross

God made the Old covenant obsolete at the cross. Hebrews 8:13

he rebellious Jews continued in it, God eventually condemned them by the measure of his Son's plumb line.

Which comes from the Law.

 

[claninja]

As Aaron and Jesus were type and anti-type of High Priest position, then we must further correlate the Old as a type of the bondage under Pharoah in contrast to the New as an anti-type of the bondage under the Mosaic Law. The Old order of things being the type and the New order of things being the anti-type.

Mosses was a type to Jesus as the anti-type.

Pharoah as the type was destroyed by God at the beginning of the 40 year exodus by water.

The Mosaic law was an anti-type that was destroyed by God on the Cross at the beginning of the 40 year probationary exodus by water (John 3:5) note - The water that ran out of the side of Christ as being the water that destroyed the Law as the anti-type.

The Law giver inscribed by fire the Mosaic law on stone tablets as the type.

The Law giver inscribed by fire of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of stone as the anti-type.

John 3:5
Verily, verily, I say unto you, except a man be born of water (freed from the mosaic law) and the Spirit (purgation fire of the heart of stone).

I agree with you for the most part.

Just as those who were freed from egypt wanted to go back to egypt
Numbers 14:4 And they said to one another, “Let us choose a leader and go back to Egypt.”
There were Jews who had been freed from the Law, that were going back to the Law
Galatians 3:1-2 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected bya the flesh

However, there is a major difference. Pharoah was evil. The Law was not. God destroyed Pharaoh, however, Christ did not destroy the Law, he fulfilled:
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

He fufilled it, so that it may be fulfilled in believers
Romans 8:4 On order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Underline wicked, for in both cases the wicked were shown to cling onto bondage and refused the Law that God dispensed within his approved contractual agreement.

In the type, the wicked clung on Pharoah and refused the Mosaic Law.
In the anti-type, the wicked clung onto the Mosaic Law and refused the Law of Christ (his commandments under the new contractual agreement).

In either case we ought not think that the type who is Pharoah and the anti-type which is the Mosaic Law were waxing and waning for 40 years, because both had ended at the beginning of the 40 years by water.

The bondage under Pharoah was ended at the beginning of the 40 years by water.
The bondage under the Mosaic Law was ended at the beginning of the 40 years by water out of Christ's side on the Cross.

Both Pharoah type and Mosaic Law anti-type were ended at the very beginning of the 40 years.

Major difference. There is no scripture that states pharaoh was waning and waxing. We do, however, have scripture that states the old covenant was waxing and waning (hebrews 8:13).

The Old type faithful Jews had entered God's rest within the 40 years, for they were freed by water and protected by fire.

The New type faithful believers had entered God's within the 40 years, for they were freed by water and protected by fire.

I agree.

40 years was a probation that would at the end yield the abundance of God's blessings through his Church and had nothing to do with the judgement of the wicked, for the wicked were already being judged within the 40 years probationary as they were dying without Christ and perishing to eternal damnation.

Incorrect.

Punishment would come upon the 1st century generation:
Matthew 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

When the vineyard owner would COME,.....
Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?”“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

He would take the kingdom from Israel and give it to a new nation for killing his son.
Matthew 21:43-45 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.” iWhen the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Christ does not explicitly nor implicitly state that he comes in 70AD as symbol of judgement upon the wicked. Jesus could not care less for an unholy city, an unholy temple which is run by the wicked who have refused the water and fire of John 3:5.

Please see the parable of the wicked tenants, parable of the wedding feast, and olivet discourse.

Christ explicitly states that Israel would be destroyed in these 3 stories. the parable of the wicked tenants has the vineyard owner "COMING" to destroy the wicked tenants, the parable of the wedding feast has God sending an army to destroy the original invited wedding guests, the olivet discourse has the "COMING of the son of man" right after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

They lived, learned and adjusted their mission statement throughout their fact finding commission. All truth was being revealed as a work in progress.

Hello. Thanks for posting on this thread.
Could I get you to vote in my poll? Thanks

P S I inadvertently put Luke 20 instead instead of 21............



.

 

[ToServe]

Even though Paul had been born again and was a new creation, he was still waiting for the resurrection

Correction, Paul in 2 Timothy 4:6-8 places the Appearing of the Lord where he would anticipate being awarded by the Almighty Jugde to receive his Crown of Life after his departure, when he was to be biologically put to death.

Paul died before 70AD.
Paul explicitly says that after he is to biologically die he would behold the Lord's appearing and to receive his eternal inheritance on that day.
Preterists say that Paul did not see the Lord's Appearing and did not receive his eternal inheritance and did not take part in the resurrection because he died before 70AD.
Paul explicitly says to all those around him, that they in turn will also behold the Lord's Appearing.
Preterists say that since most of them died before 70AD there was no guarantee they would behold the Lord's Appearing and would miss out on taking part in the alleged 70AD resurrection.

Incorrect. Everyone who believes Jesus is the messiah has been born again and is a new creation. This clearly includes the followers of Jesus in the 1st century, PRIOR to 70 ad

Let us use this as an unmovable goal post ok.

The unbelieving Jews often persecuted the Church. This persecution did cause many Jews to fall away from the faith, back to the bondage of the Law.

Oops! There goes the unmovable goal post!

So those believing Jews who fell away from the faith back to the bondage of the Law became uncreated all over again, implying that once they were born again believers, but now the Mosaic Law once again overshadowed the body of Christ to cause them to fall away to the bondage of the law.

You place emphasis on the Mosaic law more so than being born again, since you present two diemetricaly oppossing forces, by which the Mosaic Law still overshadows, meaning trumps the born again body of Christ, until the Mosaic Law is permanently removed in 70AD.

So in this 70AD Preterist narrative, born again status from the Cross up until off course before 70AD is not a permanent or guaranteed status, since it can be overshadowed and trumped by the Old Covenant Mosaic Law, thereby insulting the Spirit of Grace who is supposed to seal and to guarantee the born again status. It is also treading under foot the Son of God and smeering his blood covenant.

Incorrect. The Mosaic Law was not overshadowing the body of Christ. But sin, using the Law, was warring with those free from the Law, with those of the Body of Christ. The children of the slave woman (old covenant) were persecuting those of the free woman (new covenant).

I do not totally believe you, since you are shown to move goal posts whenever it suits you, so to keep alive the 70AD narrative fable.

Incorrect, God does not judge those who belong Christ as being under the Mosaic Law. Why? because the righteous requirements of the Law are fulfilled in believers, through Christ.

I do not totally believe you, since you are plainly shown to haphazardly move goal posts and to place the highest priority and weight to the Mosaic Law more so than the blood covenant that regenerates believers into born again new creation.

Christ is the first fruits from the dead

1 corinthians 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

Take the comma as a separation for starters in separating items, as in Christ, then the (definite article) first fruits.

Christ is the forerunner to the resurrection and never accounted for as a fruit (singular) of the Harvest of God, let alone as the fruits as in many (plural).

The Semitic language is a reverse of subject/object, as compared to the western language, where the western language presents the subject before the object rather than the object before the subject, as in "the cat (subject) sat on the mat (object)", in contrast to "on the mat (object) sat the cat (subject)".

In this case

"The first fruits (object) those who have fallen asleep (subjects)"

There is no "of" in the language, it is an addition to grammatically smooth out the sentence.

What the author is saying is Christ has been raised from the dead and now the first fruits (object) are those who have fallen asleep (subjects). The emphasis is on priority of who was raised first after Christ was raised. The priority is between the Old Covenant (former sea) and New Covenant (latter sea) people's. So the comparison Paul is drawing in terms of priority is between the Old Covenant Daniel's people's (Daniel 12) and those under the blood covenant who belong to Christ. Daniel was told to wait in his lot (turn) until the Messiah (type Michael) came to make a stand on the Cross at Calvary, then those who are Daniel's people will rise as the many stars (Angels) of Heaven as was noted after Christ's resurrection in Matthew 27:51-53.

Rather than confounding the meaning of the verse, the following sentence reveals this in plain.

But each in turn is not comparing Messiah's turn before the New Covenant believers and this in its scope has nothing to do with 70AD.

The turn criteria is not between Christ and the New Covenant people, for Danel's people do not miss out and Daniel was one of those first fruits recipients who was promised to be raised up when Messiah made the stand for his people's.

Christ was the sacrifice that commenced the reaping from the harvest of God.

The sacrifice cannot be a fruit. The sacrifice was put down as a down payment in full, in order to recover the fruit as a means of transaction to purchase or to buy back.

Since Revelations has the 144,000 first fruits as the 1st to be redeemed from earth standing with Christ on mount Zion, then and only then does the Gospel goes out to the Gentile nations (Revelation 7,14). Salvation came to the Old Covenant house first as the first offering onto God. Jesus was not a first fruits offering to God, rather God is the one who offered him so that the earth can be reaped by his blood.

Believers would be resurrected at his coming

1 corinthians 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

By now you are wondering what has Christ to do in being offered to God as a fruit of the harvest, let alone what 70AD has to do with anything.

It is at Christ's coming that death, the last enemy, would be defeated.
1 corinthians 1525-26 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

It is not speaking of death under the Mosaic Law, it is speaking of death under Christ's Law, for he is coming to those who belong to him and therefore he is not coming for the wicked.

Christ is putting down his once enemies of the Cross through the preaching of the Gospel by his two witnesses then when he accomplishes this his cross would have run its course to making all the subjects who are required to be registered in the Book of Life throughout the New Covenant Age when God will be all in all, then he retires his Cross and becomes subject to the Father as he hands back the Kingdom of Daniel 2:44 as in mission accomplished.

Since Christ reign did not end in 70AD as Christianity flourished and the Gospel continues to make subjects/disciples of the Gentile world, until they are fully accounted for in the Book of Life, then the fat lady hasn't sung yet and it is not game over, but will continue until Christ calls it a day and sounds the trumpet of God at his brilliant return.

You completely fracture the context of Revelation 20 which states

The earth and the heavens fled from his presence and there was no place for them. I saw the biologically dead, great and small, standing before the throne and the books were opened. The Book of Death and the Book of Life were opened. The biologically dead were judged according to what they had done in their earthly bodies as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead that were in it and biological death and Hell gave up its dead that were in them and each person was judged according to what they had done (past tense as in the earthly body before biological death). Then biological death and Hell did not continue as both were annihilated in the Lake of Fire. The Lake of fire is the second death, after which the first death is when a person biologically dies. Anyone whose name was not found in the book of life was annihilated in the lake of fire.

So do you believe that your name in 70AD was recorded in the Book of Life and please explain how so when you were not even born let alone had the chance to hear the gospel and to embrace Jesus?

Why would God prematurely cut short the harvest by making those who belong to him limited to a 70AD resurrection? Since when the books are opened then the harvest has ended and the cross would have run its course and Christ's reign through the Cross would have ended, hence the end!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Please keep in mind the main topic of this thread.......
And if you post, please vote in the poll..Thank you.

LUKE CHAPTERS 19, 21, 23 AND REVELATION "DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM 70AD"

 

[ToServe]

Please keep in mind the main topic of this thread.......
And if you post, please vote in the poll..Thank you.

LUKE CHAPTERS 19, 21, 23 AND REVELATION "DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM 70AD"

I have already voted.
If you will only allow me to finish off my replies to @claninja then we can field other questions as to why I believe there is another deeper meaning other than the 70 AD eschatological projection, that is being limited to the 70AD narrative, whilst completely ignoring the implications, consequences and contradictions that I have highlighted at length in my postings throughout the thread.

I will now focus on those chapters you have presented and God willing get back to you, as to why I believe what I believe in refutation of the 70AD being the Olivetti discourse spoken off by Christ.

 

[ToServe]

@LittleLambofJesus
When I study Luke 19, 21 and 23 and compare it to Revelation of Jesus Christ, I come across the idea of how Jesus managed his Church within the 1st Century and also throughout the New Covenant Age. Though the disciples were asking about their present-day earthly concerns in regards to the earthly temple in Jerusalem, Jesus uses the present day types as a future anti-type of his Church.

Jesus, therefore, answers those questions that the disciples were concerned about through hyperboles predominately affecting his Holy Temple, the Temple of his Body and how Jerusalem surrounded by armies concerns the armies of the false Christs and false prophets, who infiltrate the women (denominations) of Zechariah 14:1-4.

So too, the Abomination that makes desolate is related to the false Christs and the false prophets who infiltrate his Holy City within the New Testament generation Temple construct. Judeae is also a type for the type who have the testimony of Jesus.

Jesus, therefore, gives a brief reply to the disciples that the physical temple will be destroyed, but his focal point is not the godless temple in Jerusalem, but the Temple that is going to be defiled by the Gentiles when they come to full within the warring nations presented in Zechariah 14 who attack the church from within and without. The disciples may have got the short end of the stick answer but the reply was not intended for their eyes only, but projects to a time where God does war with those within his own Church and separates the Tares from amongst the wheat by the breath of his mouth and the splendor of his coming.

The wicked who did not come to Christ are never the intended people who behold his coming, for the parable between faithful and unfaithful servant is about believers within the Church and those days of Noah are projecting his coming at the time where he comes to make war with members of his own body and to restore the half who will not be cast out from his Holy City. This is the Day of Great Battle of God Almighty. The emphasis is in cleaning out his Church after the Gentiles come to full when they do the unthinkable by removing the daily sacrifice owing to the true form of worship with a false form of worship which is the abomination of desolation. To insinuate that Christ came with a sword against his own church in 70AD to dismember those who he has identified as false Christs and the false prophets whilst the church was being persecuted and chased from city to city during the turbulent times surrounding 70AD is an attribute of a Messiah without empathy.

This is why Luke 19, 21 and 23 are related to his Church Age generation that will never end until all is fulfilled for the message in Revelation of Jesus Christ addresses the members of his own Church as in reprimanding them and by putting them on notice, for them to either change their ways or to face the removal of their anointed crown as the God elected denomination.

So the man of sin or Anthropos of sin is the many Judas Iscariot like sons of perdition who enter the Chruch as the false Christs and the false prophets and to remove the daily sacrifice. Galatians specifically identifies the daily sacrifice as those who give their bodies as a living sacrifice to Christ and who worship in truth. The abomination of desolation within the Church is an ecumenical step that rapes the women (denominations) who conspire with the revived Beast against Christ, to introduce an abomination of desolate in the form of a lie leading to a false form of worship.

It seems that whatever is introduced after the two witensses (the chruch) finish their testimony at the 1260 day symbolic marker then from 1260 to 1290 an abomination is being introduced within the Church, where the New Testament Temple construct worship is being replaced with some other form of global conformance worship that diminishes the daily sacrifice. The 1290 symbolic day marker then introduces the full ratification of the Abomination globally and is sanctioned by the Church body corporate who is now run by those who loved not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The intended recipients of Luke 19,21 23 and Revelation is the Church and the hyperboles of types such as Jerusalem and the earthly temple and this generation transcends a body corporate outside of the covenant of God and so it remains that Jesus did give the disciples a short end of the stick because they were not meant to grasp how profound the reply would be in relation to how it will affect the entire new covenant generation and this generation was not projected upon the disciples and an unholy city with an unholy temple and the wicked who are not even in agreement with God. The beast of revelation and their false religious system (false prophet) turns out to be the wicked who are the flood of people that the dragon spewed out of his mouth to chase the woman (1st-century church) from city to city and to hinder the gospel from being spread.

 

[claninja]

You are playing with words.

Fortunately, I do not have to play with words. But it seems that you do in order to make your beliefs work. Scripture clearly states that Christ did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. I'll stick with scripture over your unsupported statements.

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

The type was the heart of stone.

The anti-type is the heart of flesh.
Living according to the Spirit is according to

John 3:5 being born again.

I agree

The law that is being fulfilled is not the letter of the law, but is the law of Christ that brings us into harmony through a mind that is being governed by the Spirit of God.

The context of Romans 7-8 is the Law of Moses.

Those under the Law had to die to the Law in order to belong to Christ
Romans 7::4 Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.
The Law made us aware of sin
Romans 7:7 What then shall we say? Is the Law sin? By no means! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the Law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the Law had not said, “Do not covet.”
The Law is holy
Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.
The Law is spiritual
Romans 7:14 We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

The Law of Moses was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh. So Christ died and condemned sin in the flesh so that the Law of moses would be fulfilled in us.
Romans 8:3-4 For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

**Romans 8:3-4 is no doubt about the Law of Moses. It is not the Law of Christ that was powerless and weakened by the flesh, it was the Law of Moses. Do you believe it was the Law of Christ that was weakened by the flesh or the Law of Moses?

In this case the law owing to Moses is abolished

The law was not abolished at the Cross. This is clearly stated by Christ. Christ states the polar opposite of you in scripture. Between you and Christ, I'll stick with what Christ stated.
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Christ came to fulfill the Law SO THAT the righteous standards of the Law would be fulfilled in believers.
Romans 8:4 so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

We, those born of God, are freed from the Law of moses, because it's righteous requirements have been met in us, by Christ. We are now free to live by the Law of Christ, that is, to Love one another as Christ loved us.
Galatians 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Galatians 6:2 Carry one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the Law of Christ.

The hour is already here according to Jesus as he explicitly states has nothing to do with the temple in Jerusalem or the mountain where Moses received the Ten Commandments.

I agree the hour was here. But you are leaving out the "the hour is coming".

On Pentecost and onwards, the Law of God resides in the New Covenant Temple owing to the true form of worship. Where the Law of God is, there also is the Covenant and in this respect since the law became letterless and became migrated into the heart of flesh, then any temple absent of the Law of God is no temple at all and does not in any way have any association with God what so ever.

I agree. Those who walk by the spirit are not under the Law of moses.
galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

So when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, to God it would be a "So what!, that is not my Temple".

Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed as a result of rejecting Jesus
Matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.
Luke 19:44 They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”
Matthew 24:1-2 As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings. 2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be toppled.”

Which is a result of not following the Law, which commanded the people of Israel to listen to the prophet that God would raise up like Moses
Deuteronomy 18:19 And I will hold accountable anyone who does not listen to My words that that prophet speaks in My name,
Deuteronomy 28:45 All these curses will come upon you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, since you did not obey the LORD your God and keep the commandments and statutes He gave you

You have a clear explicit instruction from Jesus that from Pentecost onwards, which is owing to the phrase "the hour is coming and has now come", that the temple in Jerusalem has absolutely nothing to do with the true form of worship. According to Jesus' explicit teaching the temple in Jerusalem is not the true form of worship and nether is it the Temple of God

I agree with every bit of this

therefore you need to obey Jesus and to drop the 70AD Preterist narrative right here and now.

The preterist narrative is that OBSOLETE law vanished in 70 AD. This is a historical fact. No one, since 70AD, has been able to the worship according the washings, regulation, and ceremonies of the Law of Moses

 

[claninja]

Were the Israelites who came with Moses instantly freed from Pharoah?

Yes they were freed in 1 day as they were led by moses and passed through the water.

Was Egypt completely destroyed that it was impossible for Israel to go back?

Before 70 AD was it possible for Jews to go back to worshiping at the temple according to the Law?

After 70AD was it possible for Jews to back to worshiping at the temple according the Law?

The same freedom God was giving the Israelites he was giving the Jews who still were clinging onto the Mosaic law. The outcome for the type was those who clung onto Pharoah died within the 40 years valley of decision as objectors to God's offer. The outcome for the anti-type was those who clung onto the Mosaic Law died within the 40 years valley of decision as objectors to God's offer.

I agree

They were freed by their Messiah as prophesied by Daniel when the type symbol of the anti-type Christ who is Michael made a stand for Daniel's people on the Cross at Calvary.

They were freed, but as the saying goes, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it to drink. The same applied to the Jews and Christ's appeal to them highly suggests this was being brought to their attention.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

"Yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

They were freed, but in order for them to have life and to be saved they needed to be born again (John 3:5). They needed the water and the Spirit and yet the same attitude that brought about the Israelites demise for that generation in the desert within those 40 years, played out within 40 years for that generation that perished because they did not embrace the sign of Jonah.

I agree

"But now, dying to what once bound us"

To die is an appeal to embrace the sign of Jonah and to be born again and to disassociate one's self from what once bound us, which suggests it no longer is bounding us, therefore why not embrace it by dying to the Mosaic Law. So why not die to the written code (Mosaic Law) if we have now in the present tense of the usage of the verb, been fully freed from it.

Has nothing to do with a temple destruction that has no power in it what so ever, as the Spirit of God does not reside in it and so the old way of the written code is no longer applicable post Pentecost, because we have been freed by our Messiah.

I agree, the Law of Moses was OBSOLETE for those in Christ from the Cross onward.

The destruction of the temple has made it impossible for anyone to worship according the Law of moses for the last 2000 years.

Pause and to rethink what was said. Your attempt at responding was not addressing the point in particular. If you want to further elaborate on your previous point then I will respond in depth of the matter.

Pot calling the kettle black considering your response was simply: "ill contrived"

It is a given that when Hebrews speaks of a Kingly High Priest who has a permanent and non-transferable priesthood, then it is talking about the High Priest Melchizedek. Hebrews central theme is how the High Priest brought about the change from the Old to the New and since the time Christ entered the Holy of Holies with his win blood as the High Priest, the Most Holy Place was revealed on ascension day when he was made available as our intercessor within the Most Holy Place. That is why Jesus says knock and ask me for anything.

Therefore the Most Holy Place was availed to the born again believer from the very moment our Kingly High Priest started making intercessions to the Father and on our behalves.

I agree

Christ went into Heaven within the context of our Kingly High Priest and this is only one time event, irrespective of him residing in Heaven before his ascension.

I agree. But the way to heaven was not a mystery to Christ, nor was he separate from the Father. In fact, he and the Father were one. and the fullness of God dwelled within Christ.

The born again believers were given access to the Most Holy Place through their High Priest well before 70AD

I agree as scripture testifies to this:
Hebrews 10:19-20 Therefore, brothers,c since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh

Because of Christ we now have direct access to the Father while in our earthly tents. But if Christ has not yet come, we do not yet have access to heaven to be with the Father. For the resurrection occurs at Christ's coming.

Jesus was informing his disciples that where he is going on the Cross they can't follow him for he is doing it by himself. As the prophesy states he was taken and his sheep scattered in every direction.

Calvary is where he was going.

Possible interpretation, but I disagree, considering the very following chapter:

John 14:1-4 Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God;a believe also in me. 2In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?b And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.”

Where was Jesus going to prepare a place? When Jesus would come again, where would he take them?

 

[claninja]

It disappeared when the sign of Jonah was given that Jewish nation and Jesus became the plumb line of God in dispensing his justice and righteousness.

This is incorrect according to scripture.

1. Christ came to fulfill the law, not abolish it (Matthew 5:17)
2. It obsolete and ready to vanish away when Hebrews was written (Hebrews 8:13)

The Jews who rebelled against their own Messiah would come under condemnation due to their unbelief.

I agree, which was written in Deuteronomy 18

A sin presented to a predominantly Gentile Church in Corinth is not speaking of the Old Covenant Mosaic Law. Paul is address the day to day sins. Paul is alluding that due to human weakness and fickleness, it is not possible to live perfectly without offending God. Paul says, in other words, hey that's ok, Christ did it in the present tense for us and we have the victory through Christ.

Death spoken about here is related to Adamic Fall.

According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, where does sin get its power?

The contrasting effect is for the purpose of saying the historic type served as an illustration only and was no longer present

Hebrews 9:8-9 By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first section is still standing (which is symbolic for the present age).

It speaks of Christ's Law under his covenantal agreement. The Mosaic law was married to Moses and so Christ's law is married to Christ the High priest. Moses and Jesus did not contend with one another, no more than the illustration contended with the anti-type genuine article.

I agree, but this doesn't address Matthew 5:17-18

Anointing of the Most High places Christ as the High Priest above Aaron and Moses to fulfill Deuteronomy prophesy.

Scripture for this?

Leviticus 8 was fulfilled when Christ was baptized. Christ is the temple that was anointed.

Then it is a done deal, where Moses and the Mosiac Law can't continue after the priesthood was changed.

It did though. This is a historical fact. The old obsolete covenant continued to be performed in an old desolate temple, until it was taken away in 70 AD.

The far country was earth, as compared to his original Heavenly estate. Abraham sojourned to find the dwelling place of God as a type, whereby Jesus as the anti-type came down from Heaven to go to a far country to be Emmanuel.

Incorrect. The Far country Is heaven. Jesus would receive his kingdom when he would go to the Father.
Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man, and he CAME TO the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,

His reign to make disciples of all the world had not ended in 70AD

I agree.

 

[claninja]

Correction, Paul in 2 Timothy 4:6-8 places the Appearing of the Lord where he would anticipate being awarded by the Almighty Jugde to receive his Crown of Life after his departure, when he was to be biologically put to death.

"That day" is the appearing of the Lord. When jesus would come, paul would receive his reward.
2 Timothy 4:6-8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

Jesus punishes and rewards at his coming.
Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

Paul died before 70AD.
Paul explicitly says that after he is to biologically die he would behold the Lord's appearing and to receive his eternal inheritance on that day.

The verse you posted, 2 Timothy 4:6-8, does not say that.

Preterists say that Paul did not see the Lord's Appearing and did not receive his eternal inheritance and did not take part in the resurrection because he died before 70AD.

Incorrect, another strawman argument. I should really be keeping a tally of these, as I have lost count.

Preterists believe Paul died before Christ returned, and was raised from the grave to heaven to receive his eternal inheritance at Jesus' coming around 70AD

Paul explicitly says to all those around him, that they in turn will also behold the Lord's Appearing.
Preterists say that since most of them died before 70AD there was no guarantee they would behold the Lord's Appearing and would miss out on taking part in the alleged 70AD resurrection.

I guess I'm not following this logic, at all. Probably because it is another strawman argument. Preterists believe that those who died before 70 AD did not go directly to heaven. Preterists believe that Christ came in Judgment in 70AD and the dead were raised to heaven, beholding the Lord's appearing. Preterists believe from that point on (70AD) any believer who dies goes straight to heaven
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

Let us use this as an unmovable goal post ok.

In other words, you are creating a strawman argument, so that you can knock it down, and appear victorious

Oops! There goes the unmovable goal post!

So those believing Jews who fell away from the faith back to the bondage of the Law became uncreated all over again, implying that once they were born again believers, but now the Mosaic Law once again overshadowed the body of Christ to cause them to fall away to the bondage of the law.

The Author of Hebrews moves your supposed "unmovable goal post".
Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— and then have fallen away, to be restored

You place emphasis on the Mosaic law more so than being born again, since you present two diemetricaly oppossing forces, by which the Mosaic Law still overshadows, meaning trumps the born again body of Christ, until the Mosaic Law is permanently removed in 70AD.

So you believe that no one who has become a Christian has fallen away from Christianity?

Was the body of Christ (those born of the free woman) persecuted by Jews (old covenant born of the slave woman)? YES

Did any of those who once tasted the holy spirit, return to the Law for righteousness? YES

And no I do not place more emphasis on the law as you are falsely accusing. You are either misunderstanding the preterist position or creating a strawman argument.

I do not totally believe you, since you are shown to move goal posts whenever it suits you, so to keep alive the 70AD narrative fable.

You don't have to believe me. But I ask that you believe scripture

But do you not believe Paul that those of the 1st covenant were persecuting those of the 2nd covenant? Do you believe that Hagar was dead when Sara was alive? or Do you believe that they lived at the same time? Did Ishmael die before persecuting Jacob or did they live at the same time?

Galatians 4:24-26,28-29 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. IT IS THE SAME NOW

I do not totally believe you, since you are plainly shown to haphazardly move goal posts and to place the highest priority and weight to the Mosaic Law more so than the blood covenant that regenerates believers into born again new creation.

You don't have to believe me. But I ask that you believe scripture.

Romans 8:3-4 And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Take the comma as a separation for starters in separating items, as in Christ, then the (definite article) first fruits.

Christ is the forerunner to the resurrection and never accounted for as a fruit (singular) of the Harvest of God, let alone as the fruits as in many (plural).

The Semitic language is a reverse of subject/object, as compared to the western language, where the western language presents the subject before the object rather than the object before the subject, as in "the cat (subject) sat on the mat (object)", in contrast to "on the mat (object) sat the cat (subject)".

In this case

"The first fruits (object) those who have fallen asleep (subjects)"

There is no "of" in the language, it is an addition to grammatically smooth out the sentence.

This is absolutely false, using 1 Corinthians 15:23 we can see that Christ is the first fruit.

1.) this is not a semitic language, its greek.
2.) the greek word for "first fruit" in 1 Corinthians 15:23 is SINGULAR
3.) The greek literally reads "in the own order first fruit Christ THEN those the Christ at the coming of him"

What the author is saying is Christ has been raised from the dead and now the first fruits (object) are those who have fallen asleep (subjects).

This is absolutely incorrect, again using 1 Corinthians 15:23, we can see that Christ is the firstfruit. The SINGULAR noun First fruit comes before Christ in the sentence structure. These 2 nouns are followed by THEN.

ἕκαστος (each) δὲ (however) ἐν (in) τῷ (the) ἰδίῳ (own) τάγματι (order) ἀπαρχὴ (firstfruit) Χριστός (Christ) ἔπειτα (THEN) οἱ (those) τοῦ (of/the) Χριστοῦ (Christ) ἐν(in) τῇ (the) παρουσίᾳ (coming) αὐτοῦ (of him)·

The sacrifice cannot be a fruit. The sacrifice was put down as a down payment in full, in order to recover the fruit as a means of transaction to purchase or to buy back.

The sacrifice is not the fruit, the resurrection is, of whom Christ was the first to rise, then at his coming those who belong to him.

By now you are wondering what has Christ to do in being offered to God as a fruit of the harvest, let alone what 70AD has to do with anything.

By now I'm wondering how many more strawman arguments are going to produce?


spring/summer feasts

Passover (14th day of Nissan): Christ crucified

first fruits (Day after the Sabbath of Passover;3rd day after passover): Christ rose on the day of first fruits

feast of weeks (50 days post first fruits): Christ sent the spirit on the feast of weeks.

It is not speaking of death under the Mosaic Law, it is speaking of death under Christ's Law, for he is coming to those who belong to him and therefore he is not coming for the wicked.

can you provide scripture to back up your conclusion?

Since Christ reign did not end in 70AD as Christianity flourished and the Gospel continues to make subjects/disciples of the Gentile world, until they are fully accounted for in the Book of Life, then the fat lady hasn't sung yet and it is not game over, but will continue until Christ calls it a day and sounds the trumpet of God at his brilliant return.

Christ reign never ends.

So do you believe that your name in 70AD was recorded in the Book of Life and please explain how so when you were not even born let alone had the chance to hear the gospel and to embrace Jesus?

I believe my name was recorded in the book of life before the foundation of the world:
Ephesians 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Why would God prematurely cut short the harvest by making those who belong to him limited to a 70AD resurrection?

Prior to 70AD no one went to heaven. All went to sheol. When Christ came in 70AD he raised the dead to judgment. Now, AFTER 70 ad, when man dies he does not go to sheol, instead he appears before God and is judged (believers to life, unbelievers to annihilation).

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

Since when the books are opened then the harvest has ended and the cross would have run its course and Christ's reign through the Cross would have ended, hence the end!

Scripture, please, that states when the books are opened the harvest ends?

Do you believe Christians go to heaven when they die? if so you believe the resurrection is past and Christ has come. If you don't believe Christians go to heaven upon death, then you are still waiting for Christ to come and the resurrection to occur. The latter would be more consistent with your belief.

Why would Christians ascend to heaven BEFORE the resurrection if Christ ascended to heaven AFTER the resurrection?

 

[ToServe]

Physical destruction of Jerusalem, which did occur in 70 ad

Luke 19:41-44 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Jesus spoke to his disciples concerning the physical temple in Jerusalem being destroyed, but if you read deeper, the end would still not be.

Jesus used the old temple as a type, yet his end of generation anti-type projected in the future to the Temple of God, where the many false Christs and false prophets armies surrounded the anti-type Jerusalem's city and had infiltrated within its very walls, where Jerusalem consists of many women (denominations) being raped (Zechariah 14:1-4). The hyperboles used to exaggerate the raping of women is to emphasise that the end comes when his Church consisting of many denominations is overrun from within by the many false Christs and false prophets enemies, that incites God to come out of his place on the Day of Great Battle in the days of vengeance to make war by the breath of his mouth and by the splendour of his coming against the many Tares (Judas Iscariots = sons of perdition = man of sin). Man of sin is plural for people (anthropos) of sin who are the many sons of perdition within the body of Christ, the Jerusalem of God, who infiltrate and who overrun the city within its very walls and these are those who loved not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2 Thessalonians 2:12)

The days of vengeance is against the end of days Church who consists of many women (denominations), who are raped meaning defiled by a false form of worship and by the many sons of perdition betrayal to Christ, when they institute serving a lie form of worship.

So it goes, the phrase they will not leave one stone upon another in you. Note the temple spoken about is the living stones temple of the Holy Spirit, where the many sons of perdition (Judas Iscariots) sit in the temple of Christ's body and proclaim to be of God as the many false Christs and false prophets (preachers), yet they are not of God. Paul wrote about the coming of Christ on the days of vengeance to punish those reprobate sons of perdition within his own Temple, owing to his Jerusalem as the anti-type to the Jerusalem that became a godless temple of 70AD, that was destroyed in judgment.

"Will not leave a living stone upon another in you"

1 Peter 2:5
And you are living stones that God is building into his spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

The Faling Away context is when these living stones in you will be cast down by the sons of perdition within the very walls of the spiritual city Jerusalem (The Church). This points to the removal of the daily sacrifice that consists of offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Christ. The daily sacrifice ends at the 1260 days symbolic marker when the Church finishes her testimony (two witnesses commission) and then the daily is being replaced by the Abomination of Desolation (what ever form of false worship that is) from the 1260 days marker to the 1290 days marker, where the living stones will be no more and the Beast of the Bottomless Pitt emerges owing to the new false form of worship.

Blessed are those who stay alive and to keep the faith unto the 1335 days symbolic marker. This points to Christ's brilliant coming on the days of slaughter and vengeance (Day of Great Battle of God Almighty) against those who martyred his bride after the 3.5 days symbolic marker pointing to the ending of the 70th week (69.5 to 70). Christ's ministry to the Old Covenant house was between 69 to 69.5 weeks where he was cut-off meaning crucified.

Romans 12:1
Therefore, I urge you brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, for this is your true and proper worship.

The Daily Sacrifice owing to the Living Stones within the NT Holy Spirit Temple Construct did not come down on top of each other in 70AD owing to the Falling Away. In fact, the opposite happened as we have historic evidence to go by, that Christianity flourished post 70AD, because the 1st Beast and the false religious system that persecuted the pregnant woman (The Church) of the 1st Century who had the Child (Gospel) were both thrown in the Lake of Fire (Anihilation) in 70AD. The second time around in the anti-type city spiritual Jerusalem, the Dragon who is Satan will finally be annihilated where the 1st Beast and False prophet were in 70AD. Satan hasn't been annihilated in the Lake of Fire yet, as when this happens then the Final White Throne Judgement comes at Christ's brilliant coming.

Physical destruction of Jerusalem = Days of vengeance to fulfill ALL THAT IS WRITTEN
Luke 21:20-22 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22for these are written

Immediately after tribulation (physial destruction of Jerusalem and temple) the son of man comes and the angels gather the elect
Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You are focussing and committing yourself to the type and forgetting about the anti-type where the Living Stones will not be left one upon another within the NT Holy Spirit Temple construct owing to the false Christs and the false prophets who infiltrate the spiritual city Jerusalem within its very walls.

Jesus clearly states "this generation" will not pass away UNTIL ALL these things take place. Thus the 2nd coming and resurrection are associated with the destructio

Jesus speaks of the entire NT generation that presents the full compliment of all those who are to be born physically and to be born again spiritually, in order to be recorded in the Book of Life before the books are opened at his coming.

Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

The entire NT generation inclusive of you and I.

He fulfilled it, for the Law is a shadow of Christ. One does not "defeat" their own shadow.

The Law is a shadow of Moses which points to bondage. Christ is the mirror image of God who points to freedom.

There are 2 different beliefs among preterists in regards to the resurrection. Prior to 70 ad, no one (except Christ) went to heaven.

However, Now after 70ad:
1.) when a believer biologically dies, they go to heaven. This is the resurrection

or

That is not what the majority of Preterist researchers believe. They emphatically state that the Bible is silent on the afterlife. They also state that it was a spiritual resurrection enjoyed by the living and not by the biologically dead. Preterists do not associate the resurrection of 70AD with a bodily resuscitation of the biologically dead.

 

[ToServe]

Jesus, the prophet like moses that God would raise up, describes the punishment for those who did not listen to him or recognize his timing.
Luke 19:44 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

So yes, old covenant, unfaithful Israel, who rejected Christ, was cursed according to the Law for not listening to Jesus.

During Christ's ministry within Daniel's 70th week, from the 69 weeks marker to the 69.5 weeks marker before the Cross, they were being judged according to the Law for not listening to Jesus. However, after the sign of Jonah was given them, that is pointing to his resurrection and ascension day, the Messiah (type of Michael) freed them from the Law when he made a stand for Daniel's Old Covenant people on the Cross and now they were being judged as Gentiles to the Greater Commonwealth of Israel, because they became outcasts like the Gentiles without Christ.

So, they were freed from the plumb line of the mosaic law and now came under either the Grace of Christ if they said in their hearts blessed is he who came in the name of the Lord, or they became condemned under Christ's justice and righteousness plumb line if they rejected to come to him.

After the Cross the whole world became judged according to Christ's plumb line for it is written

Submit now to God's Royal Son or else He will become furious and as a result you wil be utterly destroyed in the midst of all your human activities. For God's fury can flare up in an instant for those who do not kiss his Royal Son. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

What is being blessed is also condemned by the same plumb line of justice and righteousness and from Christ's Cross to 70AD is no exception.

This directly contradicts scripture. Hebrews and 2 corinthians were written after the cross. Using the present tense, the old covenant was desribed as growing old, aging, and fading away.
Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is growing old and aging is ready to vanish away.
2 Corinthians 3:11 For if what is fading away came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

The Mosaic Law cannot be used as a plumb line for God to dispense justice and righteousness. After Christ's Cross, Christ's justice and righteousness is the benchmark and the Mosaic Law cannot in anyway, shape or form contend with Christ's justice and righteousness in this regard, it just can't because Christ's justice and righteousness by far exceeds that of the Mosaic written letter (code) of the Law.

 

[ToServe]

The Law specifically states that those that did not listen to the prophet raised up like moses would be held accountable. The Israelites were commanded to follow all of the law or otherwise be cursed. Thus those that would not listen to Jesus would be cursed according to the law. This means destruction
Deuteronomy 28:45 All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that he commanded you.

If you note, what destroyed the wicked was not the Mosaic Law but by their actions to persecute Christ's commissioned Church that dispensed Christ's plumb line of tyingon earth what shall be tied in Heaven and loosening on earth what shall be also loosened in Heaven. (Matthew 22:1-7)

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Those that rely on the works of the law and do not do ALL of things written are cursed. Ironically, following the Law requires listening to Jesus and obeying him (deuteronomy 18). Thus those of the old covenant who relied on the law and rejected Jesus are cursed to destruction.
Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

Paul is using language to sway public opinion that is all. Think about it!

I agree, not because the Law is bad, God forbid. But because sin's power comes from the Law. And sin uses the law to bring death. Ironically, according to Deuteronomy 18, it is impossible to reject Christ AND follow the law. Any time we rely on our own works to please God, we are actually defying G

Which is why there cannot be two separate plumb lines in dispensing judgement owing to justice and righteousness. There is only one consistent measure to judge or to condemn and that is through Christ's plumb line.

Remember the stone that the builders rejected has become after the Cross the plumb line for dispensing judgement upon those who oppose it and to those who it falls upon and this explicitly points to those Jews who rejected Christ and his Church's commission. The Church was putting the Jews under judgment and the Jews had 40 years probationary to turn as a nation just like the Men of Nineveh did or to face destruction owing to the Son's plumb line, for the armies that destroyed their godless city and godless temple was credited to God enforcing due judgment based on actions that rejected and persecuted the Church, which has nothing to do with the Mosaic Law enforcement or curses.

I think here is where the misunderstanding comes in. These are not 2 fully in-effect covenants co-existing at the same time. There is one obsolete covenant that was ready to vanish, of which had Jews in slavery. The other covenant, the New covenant was established at the cross.

In the new covenant, the Law is fulfilled in believers because of Christ's death. However, those who remained slaves to the old obsolete covenant, who rejected, Christ, faced the cursed of the Law.

Hebrews 10:9 Then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

Either Christ made a stand for Daniel's people to free them or he didn't, for there are no half measures, especially in the notion that there was a large segment of national Israel that were yet to be freed and were still obligated under the Mosaic Law curses.

Which comes from the Law.

Justice and righteousness post Cross when Christ made a stand for Daniel's people in freeing them meant that the obligation to the Mosaic Law was nailed at the Cross and the curses no longer were enforceable as the plumb line that is the measured benchmark of testing for justice and righteousness. It had changed to Christ's plumb line of justice and righteousness.

 

[claninja]

A lot of personal interpretation here. I will only touch on the parts where you actually quoted scripture.

Jesus used the old temple as a type, yet his end of generation anti-type projected in the future to the Temple of God, where the many false Christs and false prophets armies surrounded the anti-type Jerusalem's city and had infiltrated within its very walls, where Jerusalem consists of many women (denominations) being raped (Zechariah 14:1-4).

I disagree with your interpretation of Zechariah 14:1-4 as being about the "end times" Church. There are 2 Jerusalem's mentioned in the Bible:

The Earthly Jerusalem
Luke 21:20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near
Galatians 4:25,30 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”
Zechariah 14:1-2 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls. I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city

The Heavenly Jerusalem
Galatians 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem
Zechariah 14:11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

So it goes, the phrase they will not leave one stone upon another in you. Note the temple spoken about is the living stones temple of the Holy Spirit, where the many sons of perdition (Judas Iscariots) sit in the temple of Christ's body and proclaim to be of God as the many false Christs and false prophets (preachers), yet they are not of God. Paul wrote about the coming of Christ on the days of vengeance to punish those reprobate sons of perdition within his own Temple, owing to his Jerusalem as the anti-type to the Jerusalem that became a godless temple of 70AD, that was destroyed in judgment.

"Will not leave a living stone upon another in you"

1 Peter 2:5
And you are living stones that God is building into his spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Scripture does not say "Will not leave a living stone upon another in you". You are adding this to scripture by your own personal interpretation.

The type is the earthly temple, which was destroyed in 70AD, the anti-type is the spiritual temple built by Christ which will never be destroyed, nor can anything evil enter it, nor can it be trampled. Just as Jerusalem was destroyed in Zechariah 14:1-4, so was the earthly Jerusalem destroyed in 70AD. Just as the Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:11 will never be destroyed, so to will the heavenly Jerusalem never be destroyed.

The heavenly Jerusalem cannot be shaken nor destroyed, unlike the earthly Jerusalem.
Hebrews 12:28-29 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.” f

Man of sin is plural for people (anthropos) of sin who are the many sons of perdition within the body of Christ, the Jerusalem of God, who infiltrate and who overrun the city within its very walls and these are those who loved not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2 Thessalonians 2:12)

It is the unbelieving Jews who persecuted the church in the Thessalonica and the surrounding areas (Berea). This is the context of 1 and 2 Thessalonians.

Acts 17:1, 5, 13 When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. But other Jews were jealous; so they rounded up some bad characters from the marketplace, formed a mob and started a riot in the city. They rushed to Jason’s house in search of Paul and Silas in order to bring them out to the crowd. But when the Jews in Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God at Berea, some of them went there too, agitating the crowds and stirring them

1 thessalonians 2:14-15 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone

This context fits Galatians 4:24-29. This is where Paul describes those under the old covenant of slavery (earthly Jerusalem) were persecuting those who are free under the new covenant (Jerusalem above).

Romans 12:1
Therefore, I urge you brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, for this is your true and proper worship.

This is the true form of worship under the new covenant (anti-type), of which the old covenant was only a picture (type). I'm sure we agree on this aspect.

You are focussing and committing yourself to the type and forgetting about the anti-type where the Living Stones will not be left one upon another within the NT Holy Spirit Temple construct owing to the false Christs and the false prophets who infiltrate the spiritual city Jerusalem within its very walls.

Again, either another strawman argument, or a complete misunderstanding of what I believe.

The type (old covenant worship through the temple) was destroyed/cast out in 70AD. The anti-type (new covenant; worship through the spirit; spiritual temple of Christ) can never be destroyed, it is eternal. Nothing evil can enter the spiritual Jerusalem as you are claiming. That is a false statement. Only those who are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world can enter the true Jerusalem, of which the earthly Jerusalem was only a picture.

Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Jesus speaks of the entire NT generation that presents the full compliment of all those who are to be born physically and to be born again spiritually, in order to be recorded in the Book of Life before the books are opened at his coming.

The entire NT generation inclusive of you and I.

A generation is about 40-70 years, not 2000. The greek word for generation in the olivet discourse is singular, not plural. It is the 1st century generation that would experience all the things of the olivet discourse. It is the generation (singular 40-70 years) that would see these things, not generations (plural over 2000 years).

The Law is a shadow of Moses which points to bondage. Christ is the mirror image of God who points to freedom.

Please provide scripture that states the Law is the shadow of Moses. Scripture clearly states that the Laws from the Law of Moses are a shadow of Christ:
Colossians 2:17 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.

That is not what the majority of Preterist researchers believe. They emphatically state that the Bible is silent on the afterlife. They also state that it was a spiritual resurrection enjoyed by the living and not by the biologically dead. Preterists do not associate the resurrection of 70AD with a bodily resuscitation of the biologically dead.

As a preterist I would disagree with you. Can you provide support for your claim on this "majority". As a preterist, I do associate the resurrection of 70AD with the raising of the biologically dead to spiritual bodies, So your blanket, generic statement is false.

Those who die, sown natural body, are raised to a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-43 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

 

[claninja]

During Christ's ministry within Daniel's 70th week, from the 69 weeks marker to the 69.5 weeks marker before the Cross, they were being judged according to the Law for not listening to Jesus.

I agree. and what is the judgment for not following the law? They would be destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you.

Israel was not destroyed instantly for disobeying the Law. God allowed the northern 10 tribes to disobey the law for 390 years before being destroyed by Assyria and the 2 southern tribes (Jerusalem) 40 years before being destroyed by Babylon.
Ezekiel 4:5 I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the people of Israel.
Ezekiel 4:6-8 After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the people of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year. 7Turn your face toward the siege of Jerusalem and with bared arm prophesy against her. 8I will tie you up with ropes so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have finished the days of your siege.

So to, God did not destroy Jerusalem Instantly for disobeying Jesus, but allowed 40 years for Jerusalem (from 30AD to 70AD) for rejecting Christ (disobeying Deuteronomy 18). At the end of the 40 years, the destruction according the Law came upon Jerusalem for disobeying Christ according to Deuteronomy 18.

The Mosaic Law cannot be used as a plumb line for God to dispense justice and righteousness. After Christ's Cross, Christ's justice and righteousness is the benchmark and the Mosaic Law cannot in anyway, shape or form contend with Christ's justice and righteousness in this regard, it just can't because Christ's justice and righteousness by far exceeds that of the Mosaic written letter (code) of the Law.

This does not answer why either Corinthians or Hebrews states IN THE PRESENT TENSE that the old covenant was "fading away", "growing old", or "aging"

 

[ToServe]

Just as those who were freed from egypt wanted to go back to egypt
Numbers 14:4 And they said to one another, “Let us choose a leader and go back to Egypt.”
There were Jews who had been freed from the Law, that were going back to the Law

They could not go back to the Law once the type Michael of the anti-type Christ made a stand for them on the Cross at Calvary, just as Moses made a stand for them when he presented the snake being lifted up in the wilderness as a type, so the Son of Man as the anti-type must be lifted up (John 3:14)

Jesus made a stand for Daniel's people, regardless of their hearts wandering back after the Mosaic Law. The deal was done on the Cross, just as Moses had presented to the Pharoah that it was a done deal in separating him from the Israelites. The chains of bondage were broken.

However, there is a major difference. Pharoah was evil. The Law was not. God destroyed Pharaoh, however, Christ did not destroy the Law, he fulfilled:
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

There is no verse that even mildly hints that the Mosaic Law was good. I fact, scripture presents the Mosaic Law as a curse to render evil upon those who do not abide in it by fleshly ordinances, such as an eye for an eye, amongst other things that the governance of the flesh imposed on its subjects.

Major difference. There is no scripture that states pharaoh was waning and waxing. We do, however, have scripture that states the old covenant was waxing and waning (hebrews 8:13).

Pharaoh was in the back of the minds of the Israelites who were having second and third and fourth and forever thoughts about him, so Pharoah was waxing and waning in their minds and hearts for 40 years as they continually complained about their living conditions under Moses.

He would take the kingdom from Israel and give it to a new nation for killing his son.

He did that when he commissioned his Church by breathing on them and saying what you tie on earth shall be tied in Heaven. This happened when he commissioned his Church and not some 40 years in the future in 70AD.

Please see the parable of the wicked tenants, parable of the wedding feast, and olivet discourse.

Christ explicitly states that Israel would be destroyed in these 3 stories. the parable of the wicked tenants has the vineyard owner "COMING" to destroy the wicked tenants, the parable of the wedding feast has God sending an army to destroy the original invited wedding guests, the olivet discourse has the "COMING of the son of man" right after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

By what it gets destroyed is the main emphasis. You see, the judgment in all three stories was as a result of the plumb lined stone who is the reason for their demise. Their city was burnt down because they killed the servants of the King who are his commissioned Church. Their city was not burnt down because of the curses of the Mosaic Law, because judgment was not enforced because of the Law jurisdiction, but because of the stone, the builders rejected.

 

[claninja]

There is no verse that even mildly hints that the Mosaic Law was good.

Not true:
Romans 7:12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

How come you barely use scripture to support your statements?

 

[ToServe]

Fortunately, I do not have to play with words. But it seems that you do in order to make your beliefs work. Scripture clearly states that Christ did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. I'll stick with scripture over your unsupported statements.

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

But don't you see that fulfilling the Law implies that the Jews under the Mosaic Law were going about it the wrong way and they did not follow it even though they thought that they did.

In this sense, Christ fulfilled what the Old Covenant Jews went about it the wrong way to fulfill, for the Law was never meant to be followed the way they proceeded to follow it, so that Christ did, in fact, abolish their way of following the Law which was to the letter and was associated with the mind governed by the flesh.

The law was never meant to be an ordinance of the flesh and Jesus corrected them by on many occasions saying "it is written (letter of the law), but I say..." That included on the issues of an eye for an eye, divorce, Sabbaths, lusting after another etc.

Those under the Law had to die to the Law in order to belong to Christ
Romans 7::4 Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the Law through the body of Christ,

Dying to the letter of the law that was associated to the ordinances of the flesh was never the intended application of the Law of God in the first place, and by this Christ fulfilled the Law and had abolished their way of applying the Law which was by the flesh owing to the heart of stone, rather than the heart of flesh which is in the inwards parts, that is the heart (Ezekiel 36:26).

Ezekiel 36:26-28, 33
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
“ ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt.

Jesus on that single day on the Cross at Calvary single handily brought them into a place where their ancestors ought to have gone, which would have compelled them to follow God's decrees and to be careful in keeping His Laws. This declaration revealed that the Old Covenant peoples owing to their priesthood was not doing what they were supposed to be doing. They thought they were following the Law of God when in fact they were further infuriating him and applying it wrongly.

The Law is holy
Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.
The Law is spiritual
Romans 7:14 We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

Yes, the Law is Holy in the sense of how one applies it in the heart, but it becomes a curse if it is applied in the flesh because the Law was never meant to be applied in the flesh in the first place.

The Law of Moses was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh. So Christ died and condemned sin in the flesh so that the Law of moses would be fulfilled in us.
Romans 8:3-4 For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Again it was powerless because it was weakened by its application in the flesh according to its fleshly ordinances. The righteousness standard that has always been the plumbline of the Law is fulfilled according to the Spirit and not the flesh and Christ proved that point on the Cross and he, therefore, abolished the application of the law in the flesh which is basically the Old Covenant Law. He did away with it because it was a failed process of worship according to a mind that was governed by the flesh (Romans 8). The hour certainly was there in the form of Christ and was going to be also, projecting forward, in the form of the Cross that the proper and true worship was always intended to be in the Spirit. Old Covenant was a failed venture on behalf of the bygone priesthood. That priesthood was the false prophet of Revelation of Jesus Christ. Those 144,000 Old Covenant saints were not defiled by the church establishment of their time, because they followed the word of God and applied it in their hearts.

**Romans 8:3-4 is no doubt about the Law of Moses. It is not the Law of Christ that was powerless and weakened by the flesh, it was the Law of Moses. Do you believe it was the Law of Christ that was weakened by the flesh or the Law of Moses?

The Law of Christ as the High Priest is the proper way to apply the Mosaic Law and yet the agreement that the bygone priesthood had crafted was a covenant with death, which was not what God had intended it to be in the first place, for all intended purposes of day to day living. The curses were placed on man by man, in that they cursed themselves.

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus fulfilled and applied the Law of God correctly through the Spirit and abolished the wrong application of the Law within the Old Covenant Priestly Temple construct.

Christ came to fulfill the Law SO THAT the righteous standards of the Law would be fulfilled in believers.
Romans 8:4 so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Again, the right application of the Law is fulfilled, thereby rendering the erroneous Old Covenant way abolished.

We, those born of God, are freed from the Law of moses, because it's righteous requirements have been met in us, by Christ. We are now free to live by the Law of Christ, that is, to Love one another as Christ loved us.
Galatians 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Galatians 6:2 Carry one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the Law of Christ.

I agree the hour was here. But you are leaving out the "the hour is coming".

The hour was there because Christ was there in person showing them the way but they would not come to him and to listen and obey his instructions. The hour is coming as Jesus informed the Samaritan woman at the Well pointing to the true form of worship from the Cross and Pentecost onwards. Certainly the hour is coming is not 70AD. From the point of reference of the Cross the Preterists would be regarded as Futurists in that sense looking beyond the Cross and Pentecost to an end of the world (end of age) scenario some 40 years later in 70AD.

Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed as a result of rejecting Jesus
Matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.
Luke 19:44 They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”
Matthew 24:1-2 As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings. 2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be toppled.”

Which is a result of not following the Law, which commanded the people of Israel to listen to the prophet that God would raise up like Moses

Jesus uses a type to the stone the builders rejected as the stone that dispenses judgement because of his justice and righteous plumb line. Then Jesus also projects it to the anti-type builders of his established Church that fall away from the faith and remove the daily sacrifice owing to the Living Stones and to replace it with an Abomination of Desolation within the post Cross NT Holy Spirit Temple of God construct.

The preterist narrative is that OBSOLETE law vanished in 70 AD. This is a historical fact. No one, since 70AD, has been able to the worship according the washings, regulation, and ceremonies of the Law of Moses

Those practices owing to the Old Covenant priesthood ended in that hour where Christ stood and instructed them to get out of this false form of worship and the hour was certainly coming on the Cross and Pentecost that God had ratified his plumb line and there was no going back to the wrong form of worship. Either Jesus wasted his efforts in instructing them in that hour and the hour to come or his words were sanctioned immediately without waiting a single moment. The 70AD narrative anyway you look at it is just plain counterintuitive and it just goes to show that Christ's efforts were not in vain and as one would anticipate that the Old Covenant false practices were abolished at the Cross and with it was abolished the priesthood authority of the Old. This was sanctioned immediately and I say immediately without God waiting 40 years.

 

[ToServe]

Not true:
Romans 7:12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

How come you barely use scripture to support your statements?

The way the Old Covenant priesthood applied the Law of God was totally at odds with how God intended them to apply it. If we only look at how Jesus dressed down the Pharisees in how erroneously they applied the law, then we have all the scriptural support to my statements.

Jesus repeatedly would say "the written code of Moses said this, but I tell you it was not like that".