Luke 17: The Second Coming or 70 AD?

[marlowe007]

Most Bible commentaries I've read teach that in Luke 17:22-37, Jesus was describing a sequence of events that culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. They also assert that the climatic events connected with the "days of the Son of Man" are not the days leading up to His second coming, but rather His coming suffering. And also that the days associated with the "days of Noah" were Jesus' days on earth.

I personally believe otherwise. Anyone agree/disagree?

 

[Biblewriter]

Most Bible commentaries I've read teach that in Luke 17:22-37, Jesus was describing a sequence of events that culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. They also assert that the climatic events connected with the "days of the Son of Man" are not the days leading up to His second coming, but rather His coming suffering. And also that the days associated with the "days of Noah" were Jesus' days on earth.

I personally believe otherwise. Anyone agree/disagree?

There is no way to even pretend that Jesus´first coming was "as the lightning that lighteneth out of one poart of heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven." It may be possible to pretend that this eventually happened concerning Jesus´first coming, but this most certainly did not happen "in his day" when he was here before. (verse 24)

Judah was indeed wicked in the days that Jesus was here, but it in no way resembled the days of Lot or the days of Sodom. Their hearts were inwardly wicked in the extreme, but they were outwardly righteous.

Again, the destruction that came in AD 70 was not sudden, as were the destructions in the days of Noah and of Lot.

And there is no way to even pretend that something even faintly resembling verses 33 to 36 has ever happened. One of two taken out of a bed, one of two taken from grinding grain, one of two taken out of a field. This event takes place at night (two in a bed,) in the morning (two women grinding grain for the day´s meal, ) and in the midday heat (two men working in the field.) Thus we see a world wide event, because although it takes place at a particular time, it also takes place at all hours of the day.

Again, those who see this coming were to flee so swiftly that they were not even to run into their houses to grab anything! No event before AD 70 involved this kind of need for haste.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

There is no way to even pretend that Jesus´first coming was "as the lightning that lighteneth out of one poart of heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven." It may be possible to pretend that this eventually happened concerning Jesus´first coming, but this most certainly did not happen "in his day" when he was here before. (verse 24)

Judah was indeed wicked in the days that Jesus was here, but it in no way resembled the days of Lot or the days of Sodom. Their hearts were inwardly wicked in the extreme, but they were outwardly righteous.

Again, the destruction that came in AD 70 was not sudden, as were the destructions in the days of Noah and of Lot.

And there is no way to even pretend that something even faintly resembling verses 33 to 36 has ever happened. One of two taken out of a bed, one of two taken from grinding grain, one of two taken out of a field. This event takes place at night (two in a bed,) in the morning (two women grinding grain for the day´s meal, ) and in the midday heat (two men working in the field.) Thus we see a world wide event, because although it takes place at a particular time, it also takes place at all hours of the day.

Again, those who see this coming were to flee so swiftly that they were not even to run into their houses to grab anything! No event before AD 70 involved this kind of need for haste.

Yes. The part about let all who are in Judea flee to the mountains and to not grab anything in your house is referring to the Destruction of Jerusalem.

Jesus was responding to two question asked by his disciples. Jesus was speaking about the temple and he said that one day not one stone will be left upon another. He was referring to the destruction of temple. The disciples then asked him when will these things be and what will be the signs of his coming. So Jesus in one lengthy answer dealt with both questions. He speaks both about the destruction of Jerusalem and the signs of his second coming.

And by the way, people are not going to magically disappearing before the second coming. The illustration shows how God is able to know who are his at the second coming and will take them with him. Those who are left are lost. In other words he separates the sheep from the goats.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I agree. Jesus answered TWO questions.

One answer referred to 70AD and the other answer referred to the time of the end when He would be coming/make His presence known.

He went into great detail about the time period leading up to and including 70AD and then the nearly 2000 years after that moment (a.k.a., the tribulation) leading up to the sun/moon darkening/stars falling which is the beginning of the time of the end when God makes His presence known.

 

[Bible2]

The day when the Son of man will be revealed (Luke 17:30) will be
the second coming of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7,
19:11-21), at which time Jesus will resurrect and change everyone
in the church into immortality (1 Corinthians 15:22-23,51-53,
1 Thessalonians 4:14-16, Revelation 20:4-6), then gather together
(rapture) everyone in the church into the clouds to meet him in the
air (Matthew 24:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:17),
then judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27;
2 Corinthians 5:10), then marry the church (Revelation 19:7), before
the church mounts white horses and descends back down from sky
(the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he wages war
against the Antichrist and all the armies of the world (Revelation
19:11-21, Zechariah 14:2-5).

---

Luke 17:22 refers to the period after Jesus' ascension (Acts 1:9)
and before his second coming (Acts 3:21).

Luke 17:23 refers to people mistakenly thinking that Jesus has
already returned and is living in some certain place on the earth
(Matthew 24:23-26).

Luke 17:24 refers to the unmistakable nature of the true second
coming of Jesus, when everyone on the earth will see him coming in
the clouds with power and great glory (Revelation 1:7, Matthew
24:30).

Luke 17:25 refers to Jesus, at the time Luke 17:25 was spoken,
having yet to be crucified for our sins (Matthew 20:18-19, 26:28).

Luke 17:26-30 means that the unsaved world will be just as
surprised by what will actually happen at the second coming, as the
unsaved world was surprised by the flood in the days of Noah
actually happening.

Luke 17:31-33 means that Christians mustn't cling to their stuff and
their mortal lives at the second coming, instead of setting their
sights wholly upon the returning Jesus and the hope of immortal
life (Titus 2:13, 1:2, 3:7).

Luke 17:34-37 means that at the second coming some unbelievers
will be killed and taken to where birds will eat their dead bodies
(Matthew 24:28, Revelation 19:21, cf. Job 39:27,30), while other
unbelievers will be left alive. They'll be forced to worship Jesus
during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19), and will be ruled over
with a rod of iron by Jesus and the church (Revelation 2:26-29,
5:10, 20:4-6).

---

Matthew 24:16-20 refers to Christians living in Judaea (southern
Israel) fleeing into the mountains when they see the abomination of
desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Matthew 24:15), which
is Daniel 11:31,36, which will be fulfilled by the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 13:5-8).

Christians may need to wait 1,335 days (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation
16:15, 19:7-21) from the abomination of desolation in Matthew
24:15 until the second coming of Jesus and gathering together
(rapture) of the church in Matthew 24:30-31.

---

The separation of the sheep from the goats (Matthew 25:32-46)
won't happen until the great white throne judgment (Revelation
20:11-15), which won't happen until after the millennium and the
battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-10, cf. Ezekiel chapters
38-39).

 

[Super Kal]

bible2, what does it mean when it says unbelievers will be ruled with an iron rod by Christ and the Church?... just from the surface, it sounds like a form of slavery

 

[Bible2]

During the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10), unbelievers will be
ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the church (Psalms 2:9,
Revelation 19:15, 2:26-29) in the sense that unbelievers won't be
able to do just as they please; they'll be forced to worship and obey
Jesus, on pain of great punishment (Zechariah 14:16-19, Psalms
66:3-4).

One of the definitions of slavery is "submission to a dominating
influence" (Webster's). Humans are either submitting slaves
(servants) to the dominating influence of God and righteousness in
their lives, or they are submitting slaves (servants) to the
dominating influence of Satan and sin in their lives (Romans 6:16-23,
Ephesians 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:26, John 8:34).

There's no middle ground. Humans are too weak to stand on their
own; even all together, they're just an infinitesimal speck of dust
before the infinite God (Isaiah 40:15,17), and they're simply no
match against the power of fallen angels and demonic creatures
(e.g. Revelation 9).

So humans today must decide whom they will serve.

One of the other definitions of slavery is "the state of a person who
is a chattel of another" (Webster's). Chattel means property. All
humans are the property of God, for he is the Creator and sustainer-
in-existence of all humans (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, Acts
17:28). He can do with them whatever he pleases (Romans 9:11-24,
Revelation 4:11).

These facts rankle the pride of humans. The word "rankle" is
ultimately derived from the word "draco", which means serpent or
dragon. From the beginning of the current human race, the serpent/
dragon has brought it into rebellion against God by appealing to its
pride. Eve was deceived into disobeying God by her pride: she
wanted to be as a god (Genesis 3:5-6), regardless of what God
wanted at that time.

During the coming tribulation, the serpent/dragon will be cast down
out of heaven to the earth for good (Revelation 12:7-9). He'll know
that his time is short (Revelation 12:12), and so he'll employ all of his
power to bring the entire world into the worship of himself and the
Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:9), who will speak
horrible things against God (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5-6).

No doubt these things will include the two facts regarding God and
humans mentioned at the start of this post: God forces humans to
worship him (Romans 14:11), and God owns humans (Psalms 100:3).
The Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, 13:11-18)
will remove these facts from their proper light, which is that God is
the Infinite Holy Creator, more than worthy of worship by all of his
infinitesimal creatures (Revelation 5:13), who only exist because he
is the one who created them and keeps them in existence
(Colossians 1:17, Acts 17:28).

The Antichrist and his False Prophet could present God and Creation
instead in the false, black light of gnosticism, in which God is a finite,
evil, creator (demiurge) of that which is material, while humans are,
in their true nature, divine spirits who are being wrongly imprisoned
within the material universe; they belong instead in their original
home in heaven, a purely-spiritual realm of bliss (the pleroma).

The Antichrist and his False Prophet could present God's forcing
people to worship him as the act of some deranged tyrant, and could
present God's owning people as invalid as humans owning other
humans in today's society.

But the Antichrist will be a deranged tyrant himself; everyone will
have to worship him and his image on pain of death (Revelation
13:15), and everyone, as if they were his cattle/chattel/slaves, will
have to receive his mark upon themselves (Revelation 13:16-18).

So how will the Antichrist get around this hypocrisy, reviling God as
a deranged tyrant enslaving mankind, while he (the Antichrist) will
be a deranged tyrant enslaving mankind?

Perhaps the way that a Marxist dictator could get around the
hypocrisy of reviling the tyranny of capitalism enslaving workers,
while he's a tyrant enslaving workers. A Marxist dictator could claim
that his dictatorship is necessary in order to completely root out
capitalism, and that once the victory over capitalism is complete, his
dictatorship will end and be replaced by a workers utopia.

The Antichrist could claim that his dictatorship is necessary in order
to root out Biblical Christianity and all other (what he could call)
"enslaving mechanisms of the tyrant god", and that once the victory
over God is complete (Revelation 19:19, 16:14), his dictatorship will
vanish and be replaced by a utopia.

But that will be a lie, a deception of the serpent/dragon who
deceives the whole world (Revelation 12:9). For the serpent/dragon
will know that there will be no victory over God, but only total
defeat (Revelation 19:20-20:3). He will know that his time is short
(Revelation 12:12b). But he will manage nonetheless to bring almost
all of humanity, through its pride, down into the same eternal
suffering that he will endure (Revelation 20:10,15, 14:10-11,
Matthew 25:41,46). He is a king over all the children of pride (Job
41:34).

 

[ezek33]

Most Bible commentaries I've read teach that in Luke 17:22-37, Jesus was describing a sequence of events that culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. They also assert that the climatic events connected with the "days of the Son of Man" are not the days leading up to His second coming, but rather His coming suffering. And also that the days associated with the "days of Noah" were Jesus' days on earth.

I personally believe otherwise. Anyone agree/disagree?

I would agree with you and disagree with the commentators you have been reading. Luke 17 is a reference of the post trib 2nd coming of Christ.