Luke 16: A response to an article.

[Senecharnix]

And I would say that just like current events, the facts are turned into propaganda, and if we examine the facts we will see how it is the interpretation of events that is in error...not the events.




It is a matter of faith: that God has revealed to man His will and that He has preserved what He revealed in Holy Scripture.

If one does not have faith that the same word by which he came to faith through is worthy of acceptation, then one has nothing to bse that faith on.

If Paul's teaching concerning salvation is accepted, then Paul's teaching concerning the behavior of the Christian should be accepted as well. If Paul's teaching contradicts what God has previously said, then we might have cause to question whether he wrote under inspiration, or his teachings are spurious.





Funny, but I have never heard of a Christian Scholar coming to this conclusion.




And Scholars are in major agreement that 99.99% has been reclaimed.





No different than with the Hebrew scriptures.

Yet there is no belief that they were not copied meticulously and that they have by and large there is no reason to think they have been corrupted and most importantly...the manuscript discrepancies do not affect the teaching within.

It is like translational differences...one can read most of them and still come to the same conclusions as to what is being taught.





I use to be very anti-Catholic, until I started to meet them and discuss their personal beliefs. Just as you set forth your experience among people as a basis for your understanding, so do I. Ihave come to realize that there is no set "right group" or "wrong group" (among believers, that is) but we have a landscape of believers that are at different stages of growth as they seek to learn about God through both study and the inworking of the Holy Spirit. Do not confuse that to mean I do not also recognize that there is sound doctrine and erroneous doctrine...I do. And there is much in Catholic doctrine that I find in error, and there is much in Catholic practice that I also see to be in error. But, I can see that even in the fellowship I attend, which I attend because I believe their doctrine is closer to sound doctrine than other groups. But htat does not mean, just like with Catholics, that all of the people there understand the doctrine this faith teaches. I have said many times, there are people in certain groups that do not know enough about the doctrine their professed faith teaches to either be damned or saved.

It works both ways.

So what do we do? We examine scripture and compare the doctrine and practice of both the groups and the people within those groups and see how it conforms to the doctrine of God.

I might be able to say, "I am opposed to Catholic doctrine and consider it a religion with many faults, even though it has tenets which I am in agreement with," but I will not say "Every Catholic is in error and doomed to Hell," lol.

I have talked with Catholics that have a better testimony than some that have a better doctrine, in that, they have resembled Christ in their behavior closer than some who though I would agree with their doctrine, I would rebuke for their...behavior.




And I think there is much we could condemn in the history of the Catholic Church. But then, there is much we could condemn in Christendom whether it is historical or modern. It disgusts me that the world can take those that claim to be Christian and claim to teach the Doctrines of God and use them to illustrate that Christianity is ridiculous. Charismatics are a ready resource for the world to mock and ridicule and blaspheme God. The failures of the men that people place thier trust in, rather than God, also displayed to illustrate hypocrisy and bad practice among so-called Christians.




Okay...lets look at their doctrine.

It is easily enough examined in light of what scripture teaches.

That is where the work is done, Senecharnix.





And it is when the implication that men have to trust...men, comes into the picture that we see a departure from faith unto religion.

There is no question that God has established leadership in the body. He established leadership in the first institution He created, which is the family. So to condemn leadership as a whole is as in error to condemn all who belong to a particular group.

Even in the world system we see leadership which for the most part, is necessary. It is good to have police officers, for instance.

While as believers we are called to give honor to those that minister the word, we do not replace the authority of God and His word with service to those who have charge of us. We are to measure the teachings and direction of the established leadership according to the doctrines of God, and when we find discrepancy between what they teach and what God has taught us, we are to remove ourselves from their influence.

But we do not disregard that scripture teaches there is to be leadership. Else, we would have exactly what we see here on this forum: every man teaching his truth, rather than teaching the truth of God.

Continued...

You are making a huge and erroneous assumption if you are implying that I hate Catholics. I have known many Catholics and have not hated any of them. One of my favorite former girlfriends was Catholic. A fellow that I consider one of my counselors of wisdom is Catholic…I have met some Catholics that I suspect are true children of God. The funny thing is that not one of them is a Bible-thumper. They live their faith rather than traipse about, quoting scripture to prove how wonderful they are. Nonetheless, the war that I help wage against the Catholic Church is only about her nonsense, such as the Papacy, her false doctrines, and history of wickedness and deception….

The Charismatics deserve ridicule and mockery. I perceived just how evil their version of Christianity is before the Son told me straight out that they are evil. He meant them and their infernal religion of deception….

One of the biggest differences in how you and I see things is this: It seems you are one of those folks who believe in an all-or-nothing interpretation of the Bible. Oh, it must be pure, perfect, and every word must have been written by God through saintly prophets and giants of the faith—or it is total nonsense. Yours truly, in turn, can appreciate and love it for it actually is rather than indulge in an impulse to idolize it for what it is not....

You are a literalist. I see truth where I find it in the Bible and regard much of it as figuratively true, though factually challenged. But I have also discovered much in it that is untrue literally and figuratively….

Let me give you some clues about how I look at the Bible and why I feel the way I do about it. During quite a few of my encounters with God or the Son in visions, revelatory dreams, and other mystical experiences, they have communicated with me directly through the Bible. Likewise, they have presented Bibles to me, during such experiences. Then there are the occasions in which the Son has allowed me to study his version of the Bible. Though I am not at liberty to impart much about what I discovered thusly, I can tell you that our versions of a Bible are pitiful compared to his version, which is exceedingly comprehensive. Interpret that however you may….

Certain individuals and I have done our best to try to get folks who think like you to open your eyes and ears and grasp the truth, concerning the matters under discussion here. But you refuse to reach for the most elemental aspect of what it is to be a true child of God. If God dwells in a person’s heart, He will enlighten them through the diligence of His true Living Word, the Holy Spirit. Consequently, a Bible of pure truth will be written in their mind, heart, spirit, and soul. The Holy Spirit inspired the truth that can be found in the Bible….

What is better? To drink pure water from a spring? Or drink water from a bottle peddled by someone who claims to have obtained the water from its source?...

Christianity has gone out of its way to provide the folks on the outside of its carnival much ammo to use against it…

“But we do not disregard that scripture teaches there is to be leadership. Else, we would have exactly what we see here on this forum: every man teaching his truth, rather than teaching the truth of God.”--as opposed to the hodgepodge of denominations, sects, and cults that compose so-called Christianity…All people dumb and brilliant have their own minds and perspectives. Whether they read the same thing, hear the same thing, see the same thing, or experience the same thing, they will inevitably imagine their own unique interpretations of what they have read, heard, seen, or experienced. And so, if there are 2.2 billion believers, then there are 2.2 billion versions of the Faith…Even the true children of God will understand what they learn from God, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and experiences, according to their level of understanding, and act on such, according to their personalities and whatever service God has designed for them….

 

[Senecharnix]

I think that depends upon the fellowship, actually. And the fellowship is, whether they understand it or not, greatly influenced by those that minister the word of God to them. If there is a godly minister, it will effect sound doctrine and practice among the fellowship. If it is ungodly administration, that too will be in evidence.

Each congregation has to be examined, starting with the doctrine held to the practice of the members. When doctrine is sound, it is usually evident in the lives of the fellowship.

But what is favorable in the lives of nominal Christians is that hopefully, the word of God will be effected in their lives through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. He is the one that changes hearts and lives, all we can do is change minds. And the changing of the mind is a human effort, whereas the changing of the heart is the work of God.


Well, you can thank many on your list above for the decline of America.

I view the result of this election to signal God's withdrawal of mercy to this nation. That may sound like a gloom and doom belief, but America has steadily spit in God's face and glamorized sin. Television and movies are one of Satan's greatest tools.

Just wait, because already she is in the process of fnalizing her selfishness in withdrawing from any work that does not benefit her. I did not see it, but I heard that there were people saying that we should have nothing to do with Israel. I expect that to gain greater popularity, and this will be one way in which the stage for true war will be set.

The American spirit has long had within it a facet of protector of the weak, and we have helped the world more than we have hurt it.

We are the first ones to deliver aid in catastrophe, but, I think that even this is changing in the new America. There are many that hate America now, but I believe that this hatred is not far from being truly justified.


Do you live in a house, Senecharnix? Do you drive a car on paved roads? Go to El Slavador and see if you would like to live there.

I am not impressed with speech like this, because behind it is, I feel, a bit of hypocrisy. Stop dirving on paved roads...boycott them, and protest them. Stop shopping in grocery stores...grow your own food organicly.

Stop using the internet...


So you equate the evil in America (and elsewhere) to...Christianity?

Funny, but the America I see today has a growing attitude of hostility towards Christianity. By your condemnation of America...things are really starting to look up!

Right?

Those poor democrats at the DNC...having God forced upon them even though they voted Him down...tsk, tsk, tsk.



And "pudding" is a good term to bring up when we look at the mush that is people feed on today.

America will make her bed, and what is unfortunate is that there will be those that will also have to lie in it.

But, bible thumpers will continue to do that which they are instructed of God to do, whatever the capacity they are called to that in.


I seem to remember that you would not waste your time. I am glad you have changed your mind, Senecharnix, really. Just because we do not agree does not mean we cannot talk about our beliefs.

It might have been forgotten but the OP was "Why do some people not believe there is a Hell." One side offers up what amounts to secular scholarship to dismiss the record of scripture, the other simply offers up scripture.

That is why scripture must be attacked: discredit the source...discredit the belief.

Right?

It is funny that if a man taught something using concepts to illustrate them, they will be embraced. But if the Lord teaches judgment using concepts of continual miserable existance...they are reasoned away.

Well, not funny, but sad.


And you see, I view God as the same God in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I can talk of Him as being One. I do not see the Spirit as a force God uses, but God. I do not see the Word as some spiritual force of instruction, but God. He does come to make His abode with those He saves, and we can thank scripture for that knoweldge, and see it in the lives of men, starting first with our own. If one does not begin to recognize sin in their lives and come under conviction of that sin and yield to God's leading them to put away that sin, then salvation could very well be questionable, and thrown into that category you speak of.

Discerning good and evil is a far cry from commending evil, and condemning good. I doubt you will see that your judgment concerning...



...lacks a recognition of evil but instead displays a willingness to glorify the world because it helps to villify those that claim to adhere to revelation from God. It lacks an understanding that those that come into relationship with God, while positionally have been saved, in practice are faced with remaining in unredeemed flesh and in need of growth just as much as the newborn infant.

You can find compassion for these people yet not recognize some basic facts concerning the People of God, and where they fit in in this world.

Which is, in fact...nowhere. God does not lead men to conform to the world nor make excuses for them. Sin is sin, and it is sin we primarily battle. If we can get to the point where our sin hinders us less than it once did, and can be used of God in leading other men away from the world system and to God, we will do well.

Okay, long response, I know, but I do appreciate your honesty and candor, Senecharnix. Look forward to speaking with you further.

God bless.

First, I would to grumble about how you demonstrate the same vexing propensity of others in this forum for assuming far too much. I do not own a home or even rent one. For your information, I lived in a barn for over a quarter of a century and have not owned a vehicle for many years. The internet service that I use is provided by someone who believes in what I do in my service to God. All that I own consists of some old clothes, an old TV set, a couple of old computers, some books, and my fossil collection…Even many of the poorest of the poor in Third World nations have access to the Internet….


I was not seeking to glorify myself. I was trying (a little too hard) to let you know some of my background so that you would enjoy an opportunity to properly evaluate what I was trying to tell you. That fact of the matter is that God has provided experiences to me that are far outside what the vast majority of folks experience. As I tried to convey, I have met all sorts of characters. Doing so and the experiences that I have alluded to have gone a very long way to helping me see reality in depths far out of the reach of so-called normal people. Among other things, I have learned that evil and deception are far more prevalent in the machinery of governments and their agencies than most folks suppose. We truly live in a darkling land on a darkling world….


Funny you should blanketly condemn all of those folks that I listed without ever having met any of them. The truth is that I have found much good in such folks. Of course, I also discovered much evil in them, too….


The problem that you and I have is that we are from different universes so to say. There is no way that we will ever agree unless you become more open to truth and shun fairytale thinking. Not everything in the Bible belongs in the Bible. Quite a bit that is not in the Bible belongs in it…I will give you a huge clue as to what does not belong in it. Anything that implies that Trinitarianism is worthy of inclusion should be cut out of it…I have interacted with both God and the Son. I have been privileged to meet the latter as he was, while he walked this world as Yeshua ben Joseph. Likewise, I have become acquainted with him as he is now. He and God are most certainly not the same. The Father is God. God is the Father. The Son is not God. He is the Son. The Holy Spirit is an entity who came from the Father but is different from Him. He acts on the Father’s behalf as His ultimate emissary. Though he represents God, he is not God. Only the Father is God. Period….


Thank God that the three-headed hydra Romney lost the election and that the Democrats gained in the Senate! That is not to suggest their victory will spare America from what is coming, which Republicans are primarily responsible for…Guess when God condemned America. I will give you a clue. A very popular Republican President had just begun his second term in office…God is not going to destroy America for the reasons that you seem to think have caused her to anger God. I would bet the tail of my favorite kitty that you endorse many of the things as good that God considers abominable about America. Read my OP Human Folly and the Wrath of God for more information. The Mighty Tree is a parable of the same thing…Beware of what is coming in April of 2014….


Your understanding of the heavenly realms can barely even be termed rudimentary. Angels have acted on my behalf at God’s behest. But I have not received counsel from any angels, though they have conveyed messages to me…The Holy Ones of the heavenly realms consist of many more entities than God and the Son. Indeed, God and the Son have countless heavenly kinfolks and neighbors very few of whom are so-called angels. Likewise, there is much more to the infernal regions than the classic idea of Hell (Tartarus/Gehenna). Satan presides over his dominion of many realms as the god of evil. My experiences include him confronting me on three different occasions about my service to God. And so, I have seen the master of evil face-to-face. He is truly a monster and those that think there is nothing to worry about, concerning him and Hell’s torments, are deluding themselves. You, my friend, are deluding yourself if you truly believe that he has failed to exert an immense influence on every aspect of so-called Christianity. He still exerts an enormous influence every aspect of such. The fact that humans have allowed him to corrupt such and themselves angers God. As I suggested, He and the Son are not the least bit amused about the reality of Christianity, which has much to do with why America is destined to be destroyed and why other “Christian nations” will receive little mercy before they, too, are destroyed. God’s wrath will also trample all other nations on this world before the Son establishes his kingdom of righteousness and wisdom. Amen….

America playing caped crusader defending the undergdogs of our world is a bunch of hogwash. It is evidence of America’s arrogance. That is beside the fact that God did not commission to her to play god of the Earth and decide who should prevail and who should fall. Her zealous support for Israel is another huge problem. Since Israel has a big sister to back her up, she has become much more arrogant and belligerent than she would have otherwise. She has been digging her own grave through American support. God is extremely upset with her, concerning her awful attitude toward him and the Palestinians. He will allow her to survive after America falls. But He is going to make her pay big time for her sins and sinful attitude. Consequently, she will perish before the Son returns….


Lastly, the Church traditions that you mentioned are not worth their weight in hot air. Most of them were manuactured to support other aspects of deception, regarding the nonsense that had begun sprouting in the Early Church...The claims of "certain people" do not mean diddly-squat...I have done enough research to know in some cases and strongly suspect in others that there are great big holes in most of the claims that I have ecountered....

 

[Soulgazer]

I know you think that this makes sense, my friend, but the truth is, there is a point in time where the Comforter is said to come. According to scripture that is the Day of Pentecost.

We also see parakletos used in 1 John where Christ is said to be our advocate.

So to answer your question...



...we can say that the Hebrew scripture preceded the ministry of the Holy Spirit in which He is called the Comforter, and that the New Testament scriptures followed that blessed event.

But what we cannot escape is your adherence to a concept taken from the very scriptures you rail against, once again, I am sorry to say, showing the hypocrisy of your position.

And it is the Comforter that illuminates the word of God in the hearts of men, that they understand the doctrines presented in the word of God, and not be left to themselves to pursue religious efforts. He not only gives understanding, but the ability to conform to that knowledge.

As far as trying to present a case that God is still giving new revelation to man, well, that is your call. I would only suggest that you try to compare that "new revelation" with what God has already said, and see how it lines up in a balancing of the whole counsel of God. All new revelation offered by men can be scientifically examined in light of scripture, and if the scholar is honest, the discrepancies should be fairly apparent.

Call me old fashioned, but I try to live my life according to what God has said, not trusting what He might have said.

God bless.

"The Day of Pentecost" is written in acts. The "spirit of truth" as another comforter is written in John. Two separate books, two seperate belief systems, one from Naasene gnostics, one from developing catholicism.

"But what we cannot escape is your adherence to a concept taken from the very scriptures you rail against, once again, I am sorry to say, showing the hypocrisy of your position."

Excuse me, but I don't think you are that dumb. It is insulting when you pretend to be.

So, you don't kill someone on your way in to work everyday based entirely on scripture?

 

[P1LGR1M]

Truth is truth. It has many sources. If God has blessed one with a discerning spirit, one can readily discern truth in diverse places and find it in assorted ways. It is extremely cynical to imply that all scientists and scholars are stupid liars who bend the facts to make Christianity look bad or to make the Bible look as if it plays very loosely with the truth. It is also erroneous to assert such implications….

The Catholic Church is not nearly the only problem with the reality of so-called Christianity, friend. The problems with such extend through every church. Evidence of how corrupt most so-called Christians are is obvious. I only pointed out a few examples of how it can be discerned. If I had time, I could write a book on the subject. But I have covered the basics elsewhere in this forum. I am weary of repeating myself in this matter. Others here have noticed the same evidence. The deal, my friend, is that a person must want to seek the truth in order to find it….

The bottom line is that so-called Christianity long ago sold its soul and integrated itself into the world system as one of its institutions. The biggest step in that process occurred when it began committng adultery with the Emperor Constantine. But so-called Christianity had wandered off track long before then. Nonetheless, the vast majority of so-called Christians play along with the farce that so-called Christianity has become. There is very little difference between most so-called Christians and the profane—and those differences will do nothing to help the pretend Christians avoid Hell. That leads to the question: How did so many Christians become thoroughly corrupted despite practically worshipping the Bible? The answer is simple. God does not dwell in their hearts despite how much they praise Jesus. The Holy Spirit is far from them….

Like you said yourself, there are in many fellowships true believers.

That there is a false christianity out there goes without saying. This is why we need to individualize our efforts, rather than, as you do here, lump everyone together. Your premise is, "My understanding is right, everyone else's is wrong," and that my friend...is exactly why the Catholic Church has had so many problems.

God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

So, you would like to get to know me, huh? I would like to get to know you. What is your story? I went to your page and found only questions….

Alright, here is a truncated bio of yours truly…God played has played a central role in my life from long before it began. I am one of those lucky few whose memory extends back to his earliest days in this life. One thing that I do not remember—because it never happened—is disbelief in God. In other words, I have been His child since way back when. From my earliest days, I received revelatory dreams and visions of the past and future. At first, such amazed me on the one hand and frightened me on the other. I was one of those little troublemakers who said astounding things from a very early age. It was not uncommon for me to have little chats with God. My relationship with Him evolved to the next step on February 4, 1962. The preacher was expounding on the latter half of the Apocalypse of Saint John the Divine aka Revelation when I received my first great vision. I beheld America being destroyed. It was as if I were sitting on the foredeck of a ship cruising into New York harbor at night just as missiles began to rain down on the city, consuming it in a conflagration of explosions and fire. I knew then that America was destined to be destroyed and that Russia and China would kill her. But I also perceived that the destruction would not come any time soon and that it would occur after America became friends with Russia and China. I told some adult about what had been revealed to me. As usual, they thought, This kid needs treatment. Oh well….

God and the other Holy Ones set things up to provide a fantastic education to me. I ended up receiving my basic education in the school system consistently rated as the second best in the nation. I loved to read books related to history and science. I also studied all things biblical. My interests also included sociology, anthropology, and psychology. As other kids flirted, gossiped, and played games, I studied people. Meanwhile, I received visions, revelatory dreams, and insights from God now and then. Later, my education advanced to the stage that God allowed me to flirt and dance with evil and darkness. That is, I found the bad boys and girls to be the most interesting people of all. And so, I began hanging around them whenever I was not being a lone lion roaming my jungle of big thoughts, dreams, and adventure. It was also a real jungle—of a semi-tropical nature. I had great fun in the woods and swamps with my animal friends. I even encountered wild jaguars. None ever threatened me, not even the very large male jaguar that I once came face-to-face with. I have a way with animals that even allowed me to becme the playmate of a wild deer….

Thanks to my fascination with bad boys and girls, I began a continuous adventure during the waning days of my school career that lasted for a couple of decades. During such, I met all of those interesting people that I mentioned, which also includes real life black ops (intelligence and counterintelligence) agents. It also includes my participation in two grand conspiracies involving governments, which conspiracy theorists still speculate about and which I cannot say more about than what I have already mentioned. My education also includes helping black ops agents nail some of my acquaintances, though I did not wish to do so. It also includes me being threatened with death on more than one occasion, getting shot at, almost getting summarily exectuted, and almost getting lynched. Meanwhile, everyone who knew me kept bugging me to become an artist. I never really liked doing the art thing. But I gave it a half-hearted try. As I did so, I worked on the two careers that I knew I had been designed to pursue—that of a writer and what I like to think of as an agent for God. Eventually, a cousin of mine hired me to work as a draftsman/illustrator. My career as such began in 1977 and ended in 1984. During that time, I worked for scientists. Among other things, my job required me to create the types of charts and grafts that you find in science books. You may have even seen some of those that I created. As I did so, I saw for myself evidence of the Earth’s age and the fact that no global flood ever occurred and certainly one did not occur five thousand years ago. Some of those scientists are believers—Christians, Jews, Moslems. But they were honest enough with themselves to admit that they could (and had) disproven any possibility of the global flood recounted in Genesis. By the way, I have a collection of fossils dating back hundreds of millions of years. Such includes imprints of Cambrian lifeforms that died in mud that has since turned into very hard rock. My collection formerly included a mastodon tooth assessed as being one of the youngest ever discovered. [The beast that it belonged to perished during early historic times.] So, my knowledge of the distant past is a hands-on matter….

In February of 1985, my relationship with God began evolving to the next step. I began receiving revelations and insights via a flood of visions, and revelatory dreams. They enlightened me about all sorts of matters. Mostly, though, they reinforced the revelations that blessed me through my first great vision. I began getting serious about writing career during the aftermath and ended up pulling the plug on my art career….

Fast forward to the waning weeks of 1999—I entered yet another period of accelerating mysitical activity that reached its first crest on September 10, 2001. Yes, I received information from God that terrorists were going to attack America. That bit of news started coming to me in visions and revelatory dreams months before 911. God also made it very clear that He was sending the troubles to America to begin the process that will lead to her destruction. But it was not my place to warn the nation about what was at hand…The next crest of the period of accelerated mystical activity arrived a few months after America foolishly invade Iraq. During that period, God inspired me to write all sorts of prophecies. From then until now, I have periodically received revelations and insights through all sorts of mystical experiences…On October 18, 2005, God formally asked me to assume the role that I had been performing informally throughout my life. So, I am writer, a mystic, a seeker of truth, and one of God’s emissaries. But I prefer thinking of myself as an agent or envoy….

The only thing of note to add to this bio is that, at a very early age, I knew that I was supposed to be separated from society in general and women in particular. But I have always been a rebel. And so, I needed to learn the hard way. That led to lots of heartache and much education about the human condition. And so, it was worth all of the trails, tribulations, woes, and nonsense that I suffered through to become who and what I am. Presentl, I live in the middle of nowhere northeast Louisiana on a vast farm, doing my duties, which include taking care of my elderly mother….

Very interesting, to be sure. I still wonder (and I haven't read the posts after this) if you have given much thought to the possibility you have been taken captive by the world.

It is not for me to question your testimony, Senecharnix, because I do believe there are things that go on that defy the boundaries of the natural. I would be curious if your trespass into the world system involved drug use.

As for me, not much to tell, nothing extraordinary, really. Just a sinner saved by the grace of God, once a heavy metal musician (and I did use drugs, lol) but now interested in evangelical efforts which include learning and teaching interaction between those of differing beliefs and study of God's word.

Thanks for the bio, though, I appreciate it.

One point I would comment on is the invasion of Iraq. While there would be many Iraqui people who would be in disagreement with you, and are glad that America intervened, I would agree with this from this perspective: I think we will understand one day that we were in fact training the Antichrist's troops the art of warfare.

I don't know if you are familiar at all with Progressive Dispensationalists (who have some pretty impressive apologists), but they believe Antichrist will be an Islamic leader, the muadi, if I remember correctly (really need to brush up on that, lol), and that the Tribulation will be localized in the Middle East, consisting of those nations listed specifically in scripture. Now I am usually not dogmatic about eschatological events beyond the assertion that I have my beliefs and have yet to have anyone undermine the basis for that belief (not even the PDs, lol) and recognize that prophecy in many cases unfolds as it is written, yet contains more than is understood (which is actually in favor of my views), and...I am human, and prone to error.

Anyway, I am fairly confident that the next few years are going to hold some rather disurbing events, though I do not assume to think my concerns based upon scripture and world events holds anything more than can be classified as...my opinion, lol.

Okay, on to the other responses.

God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

You are making a huge and erroneous assumption if you are implying that I hate Catholics.

Assumption will be a key word in this response, lol.

Originally Posted by Senecharnix

They were under the care of Catholic theologians that I do not trust even a little bit.
​

There is a difference between being "anti" or opposed to something and hating something, especially if that "something" is a someone.

But I will say that this statement...

Of all the many people that I have known, the most screwed up are the folks are those that just love the Bible, study it regularly, and go to church often.

...is hardly showing anything but a despising.

That you have friends among Catholics does not surprise me, as often if we simply take the time to get to know someone it is harder to forse our preconceptions upon them. So it was not just a matter of not trusting the theologians among the Catholics that held scripture hostage, it is also elevating those clearly in the world system above those that "love the bible, study it regularly, and go to church often." It is said the church is a "hospital for sinners," and in many fellowships across the world, believers, though immature and unable to convey the Gospel in either doctrinal or practical ways, are still receiving the care they need. They are receiving healing. For some, healing will take longer than for others. And it has been my experience, Senecharnix, that the mature saints are those that have a firm grasp on the teaching of scripture.

I have known many Catholics and have not hated any of them. One of my favorite former girlfriends was Catholic. A fellow that I consider one of my counselors of wisdom is Catholic…I have met some Catholics that I suspect are true children of God. The funny thing is that not one of them is a Bible-thumper.

And these are better than...

international criminals, gangsters, outlaws, run-of-the-mill criminals, assasins, famous murderers, devil worshippers,

...because they don't...

just love the Bible, study it regularly, and go to church often

...? ql (quietly laughing)

The funny thing is that not one of them is a Bible-thumper.

Well, you have to admit that the forums are quite a bit different from our usual conversations with people. Here we have the chance to open God's word and dig in a little deeper than can be done in a normal conversation. Here, it is not a matter of me saying "scripture says" or "scripture teaches," I can show it to you immediately.

I would also mention that concerning relationships with those we know, there are a slew of different approaches. For me, there are people I am led to immediately get into theological discussion, whereas with others there is a need to keep the cookie jar lower, lol.

It may be that your Catholic friends have quite a bit of wisdom in their dealings with you. Better not to burn a bridge, you see.

They live their faith rather than traipse about, quoting scripture to prove how wonderful they are.

Are they completely devoid of doctrine? I find that hard to believe. I have friends that I do not broach the subject with until they bring it up. Half the time, they are sorry they did, lol, but this way it is they that inquire, and I am not charged with forcing my views on them.

Nonetheless, the war that I help wage against the Catholic Church is only about her nonsense, such as the Papacy, her false doctrines, and history of wickedness and deception….

And the assumption is that...all Catholics fit the pattern of the leadership.

I am surprised in your many travels you have not understood that belonging to a group means you share the same beliefs. America is a good example of that. There are countries that hate Americans wholesale because they are limited to a mindset and understanding of this nature.

The Charismatics deserve ridicule and mockery.

Not all of them, my friend. There are sincere charismatics that are not engaged in embracing or teaching demon doctrine. You are guilty of assumption and condemning the all who fellowship in charismatic churches. As they would say, lol, "You are throwing out the baby with the bathwater."

I look at it like this: those that are ridiculed and mocked usually deserve it.

I perceived just how evil their version of Christianity is before the Son told me straight out that they are evil. He meant them and their infernal religion of deception….

I find it hard to believe...sorry...that the Lord condemned all charismatics. You are aware that there are Catholics that embrace charismatic teacings and practice, right?

That one is in error in doctrine and practice does not mean they are not saved. If flawlessness in doctrine and practice were a prerequisite for salvation then it would not even begin. New Believers are as in need of spiritual growth as the newborn infant is on physical growth. Both require that which stimulates growth. The primary difference being, the LIFE the new believers receive is eternal, whereas the life of the infant can be snuffed out through lack of the necessities.

Which reminds me...there sure is a whole lot you do not answer from my posts, lol.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

One of the biggest differences in how you and I see things is this: It seems you are one of those folks who believe in an all-or-nothing interpretation of the Bible.

Again, assumption.

You really do not know me or my beliefs well enough to make this statement. In fact, I believe I have already sated that there are manuscript issues which are without doubt evidence of man's role in the transmission of scripture. But what we can be assured of is that the teachings, that which God intended to be revealed to man...have been preserved.

We see the quotation of a translation, the LXX, by the Lord and the Apostles, as evidence that even though there is a difference in phraseology, the intent is not lost.

Now if you mean that I believe that the teaching of scripture has been preserved and that it is the very measure of rule we use to guage everything by, then you are correct.

The word of God still accomplishes that which it was sent out to accomplish. Always has, always will, until we enter the Eternal State. And even then, it's truths will still be...true. Just as the truths of the Old Testament remain true, though we have a better way and a better understanding.

Oh, it must be pure, perfect, and every word must have been written by God through saintly prophets and giants of the faith—or it is total nonsense.

If you would like to know my personal take on it, it is basically like this: God used men in their own character and knowledge base, these men being imperfect yet still used of God to record that which He wished to impart to man.

While the fingerprint of man may be found in the manuscript evidence, no major doctrine is affected leaving the teaching intact.

The intent of God's word is without doubt holy, pure, and able to convert men, but, one fatal flaw the decriers make is that within scripture is recorded the events as well as the thoughts of the men they give an account of. For instance, when King Saul sought out a medium he did so in opposition of God's teaching so we do not take this as condoning those with familiar spirits. Or, David calls out for vengeance on his enemies does not represent God seeking this vengeance, whereby we attribute this cry to God. THese are personal feelings of David.

Yours truly, in turn, can appreciate and love it for it actually is rather than indulge in an impulse to idolize it for what it is not....

Yeah...kind of like the Hobbit, right? lol

The charge has been made several times that I have made scripture an idol, and again this is assumption. You simply do not know me well enough to escape a return charge of false witness. Is it surprising that I am a "bible thumper" on a Christian Forum?

There is a danger, like the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees fell into, of missing the entire point of scripture. This is an implicit teaching in scripture which has not been lost on me, Senecharnix. But I would rather be considered a bible thumper than to publicly be found to working against the cause of Christ. And those that say they are for Christ and condemn the very source by which we learn of Christ...leaves little question in most peoples mind.

You are a literalist.

How would you know? So far we have looked at very little scripture. You might be surprised at what I am, if you would be patient to learn. I do think that we approach scripture in the literal sense, and as we study discern the use of metaphor, typology, hyperbole, and even sarcasm.

This is usually fairly easy. If it says it is a horse...it's a horse. If it say's "it is like unto a horse," there's a good chance it is not a horse, but something similar by which a horse is used as a point of reference.

It's not so hard. Scripture usually provides all the commentary we need to gain an understanding of it. On atheist forums, the word "context is a dirty word." Context doesn't matter. Many are guilty of a hyper literal interpretation that is almost always easily exposed.

So if you want to know how literal I am in interpretive efforts, try me.

Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

I see truth where I find it in the Bible and regard much of it as figuratively true, though factually challenged.

As I said, the world system can take hostage people in a number of ways. The science you believe to be irrefutable is not so solid, my friend.

I myself can take it on faith that God created the world in six days. Not a big deal. And when science catches up, I will try not to say "I told you so." lol

But I have also discovered much in it that is untrue literally and figuratively….

I have made the offer a number of times here to discuss this very thing. I would ask that you not post ten thousand things for me to respond to, as I am such that I hate not to answer anything, and I will invest the time to respond properly.

Let me give you some clues about how I look at the Bible and why I feel the way I do about it. During quite a few of my encounters with God or the Son in visions,

You have already given quite a few clues, actually.

And I have never been impressed with the "visions" and "revelations" of any I have encountered.

revelatory dreams, and other mystical experiences, they have communicated with me directly through the Bible.

Yet you call Revelation the "Apocalypse of John?" lol

Likewise, they have presented Bibles to me, during such experiences.

Okay.

Then there are the occasions in which the Son has allowed me to study his version of the Bible. Though I am not at liberty to impart much about what I discovered thusly, I can tell you that our versions of a Bible are pitiful compared to his version, which is exceedingly comprehensive. Interpret that however you may….

Exactly which "version" do you refer to?

And as I said, it is not for me to judge your visions, dreams, revelation, what have you...lol. If you can share what has been revealed, that is your choice. And it may be, opinionated as I am, that I might examine those things in light of the scripture I have. That is usually how it works, anyway, lol.

Certain individuals and I have done our best to try to get folks who think like you to open your eyes and ears and grasp the truth, concerning the matters under discussion here.

How's that working out for you?

So far I have not been impressed with gnostic doctrine.

But you refuse to reach for the most elemental aspect of what it is to be a true child of God.

Again, you do not know what it is that I grasp, my friend. As far as who grasps what, that is a matter of public record. I am not worried about how my doctrine lines up with scripture. I do not worry that I teach another gospel.

If God dwells in a person’s heart, He will enlighten them through the diligence of His true Living Word, the Holy Spirit.

I agree with htat, but...I also believe that He will illuminate the believer with what He has already given us. New revelation usually tends to end up in a hodge-podge conglomeration that has to make more fanciful excuses for why the word of God doesn't mean what it says.

And it is usually for the purpose of the individual's glory rather than the glory of God.

But as I said, the public record holds an account of all.

Consequently, a Bible of pure truth will be written in their mind, heart, spirit, and soul. The Holy Spirit inspired the truth that can be found in the Bible….

And when exactly does this happen? One is zapped with a dose of enlightenment, and then he sit on the top of a mountain and look down on his inferiors?

The fact is that both scripture and experience shows this is not how understanding is achieved. It is work. We have to grow up. It is a lifelong process and I seriously pity the one that thinks he "has arrived." He can live 100 years and be the greatest opf theologians, and still be in need of learning. When he dies, he will fall on his face before the Lord and finally understand the difference between God in man...and God.

It is true that we have as our Teacher, God. But the difficulty arises in the pupil, because man is involved.

What is better? To drink pure water from a spring? Or drink water from a bottle peddled by someone who claims to have obtained the water from its source?...

You again assume that my doctrine ios the product of simply memorizing and parroting what other men held.

Which only adds to the time wasted in discussion.

You say your water is pure, but, if it does not resemble that which God has already said, why would I drink it?


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Christianity has gone out of its way to provide the folks on the outside of its carnival much ammo to use against it…

Again, a misrepresentation of the Church, the Body of Christ.

The assumption is that those that cause the world system to blaspheme Christ are in fact Christians. With all of this worldly experience you have, Senecharnix, I would think this very simple knowledge of human nature would have instilled the wisdom not to be prejudiced. I mean, if you have met hired assassins that are superior to bible thumpers, I would expect you would take for granted there might be some bible thumpers out there that are also..."good."

“But we do not disregard that scripture teaches there is to be leadership. Else, we would have exactly what we see here on this forum: every man teaching his truth, rather than teaching the truth of God.”

--as opposed to the hodgepodge of denominations, sects, and cults that compose so-called Christianity…

I see your point, but it really is not a good one.

The fact is that there are many different denominations and "faiths" that are in much agreement, and can freely fellowship together. Some major doctrines would be the Deity of Christ, Complete Atonement, The Trinity, the Virgin Birth of Christ, the Comforter, et cetera.

But where we see religion invade Christianity and latch on to a few beliefs and then go from there, we have to draw a line. There is much similarity in quite a few doctrines between Catholics and Protestants, more than some of those adherents would like to admit, really. But, we have to give respect for those that are sincere in their beliefs and do not think an ecumenical movement is in the best interest of sound doctrine.

All people dumb and brilliant have their own minds and perspectives. Whether they read the same thing, hear the same thing, see the same thing, or experience the same thing, they will inevitably imagine their own unique interpretations of what they have read, heard, seen, or experienced.

Just not true. And that is the beauty of the instruction of the Holy Spirit. People that have never met, or been associated with either each other or a specific group can read various translations and come to the same conclusions.

That everybody comes to different conclusions is just not true. And while there will be differences of opinions in minor areas, even among those that are for the most part in agreement, usually the sincere student will, by sound hermeneutics, come to a proper understanding of that which might differ.

And so, if there are 2.2 billion believers, then there are 2.2 billion versions of the Faith…Even the true children of God will understand what they learn from God, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and experiences, according to their level of understanding, and act on such, according to their personalities and whatever service God has designed for them….

Just not factual. I can say that in my time on forums, which has not been too terribly long, most of the doctrines presented are not only not original, but many of them are ancient.

Annihilation is an ancient error, addressed by the Lord Himself. Salvation by works is an ancient error, addressed by both the Lord and Apostles.

Solomon wrote, "there is nothing new under the son," and for the most part, I am in agreement with the heart of that statement. And what I have found in doctrinal debate is that most of the hersesy out here is simply regurgitated philosophy and opinion. We were told it would get worse and worse, that vain and profane babblings would increase, and we are to shun them. We see that explode on the internet, and here is why:

Before we were able to get online and look up whatever we wanted, a man had to look into scripture and determine for himself if the beliefs he held were true. Because every man has his own opinion as to what scripture says, as you say, that is true. Now where it used to be a man would have to spend time on the word, he can now simply search the internet until he finds somethings that agrees with him, rather than testing his beliefs to that which is taught in scripture.

The thread "Luke 16: a response to an article" is there because someone posted something that for him, sealed the deal. Well, under examination we see much in there that is nothing more than a hodge-podge of biblical jargon thrown together. Which for the average student, if the majority that call themselves by the name of Christ could even be called students, or disciples for that matter, would bother to look into the word of God, rather than being convinced by something that unchecked, agrees with their own beliefs, well, we would have a different world, and many of these cults and denominations that call themselves christian would disappear.

Trust in experience is a dangerous thing. I trust in the experience I have in Christ, but I cannot, and will not try to convey my walk to another. I will simply point them to the One that brought me to where I am today. and knowing that God is able, that is all I have to do.

Okay, not sure if I will get to the other response right now, but we will see.

God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

"The Day of Pentecost" is written in acts. The "spirit of truth" as another comforter is written in John. Two separate books, two seperate belief systems, one from Naasene gnostics, one from developing catholicism.

"But what we cannot escape is your adherence to a concept taken from the very scriptures you rail against, once again, I am sorry to say, showing the hypocrisy of your position."

Excuse me, but I don't think you are that dumb. It is insulting when you pretend to be.

So, you don't kill someone on your way in to work everyday based entirely on scripture?

I have never claimed to be very bright, lol, but what I do know is that the same God that Gave us John also gave us the Book of Acts.

It is sad that some do not see that.

We can see the Comforter and the work He does as far back as...


Ezekiel 36:21-27

King James Version (KJV)


21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.



The promises of God will be fulfilled, Soulgazer. Do you see the New Birth here?

So, you don't kill someone on your way in to work everyday based entirely on scripture?

You would have to explain this, though I think the intent is whether I follow a literal practice of the Law. The answer to that is no. The answer in general becomes debatable, though. Just the other day I lost my temper with someone I felt approached my nephew in the wrong way. Not proud of that, but, it could be said that there was murderous intent in my heart. I can only consider the event and use that to learn, and hope a better amount of self control is in place the next time something like that happens.

God bless.

 

[Soulgazer]

You would have to explain this, though I think the intent is whether I follow a literal practice of the Law. The answer to that is no. The answer in general becomes debatable, though. Just the other day I lost my temper with someone I felt approached my nephew in the wrong way. Not proud of that, but, it could be said that there was murderous intent in my heart. I can only consider the event and use that to learn, and hope a better amount of self control is in place the next time something like that happens.

God bless.

The mythologies explain what has always been. You don't not kill because of the law, you don't kill because you believe it would be wrong.

The stories give an explanation for the spirit of truth, but the spirit of truth has been in existence since the first person looked at something and wondered "How does that work?"

"Spirit"=force that moves or animates. Yes, the spirit of truth is a comfort, because it keeps on moving on a constant voyage of discovery; it means you don't accept the status quo but go out and seek for yourself, and you know what is true because you have experienced it.

I'm going to use a metaphor for my position here on the bible as the "word of God" as compared to the true "word of God"; A picture is worth a thousand words is an established truism. A painting of a sailboat under sail says more than a thousand words. But neither picture nor word can describe the smell of salt air, the sound of the wash under the bow or the wind in the wires. Neither can they convey what YOU YOURSELF would be feeling if you were experiencing these things right now. God is bigger than a sailboat under sail. Understand? Whereas the picture would be the scripture, the actual "word" is in the doing.

Both sailors and non sailors can look at that picture and enjoy it. If you look at a written page and say it must be true because it's written, then no, you do not have the spirit of truth any more than staring at that painting of the sailboat makes you a sailor. Become a sailor first, then look at the painting, and you are free to agree or disagree with the artist's interpretation.

 

[P1LGR1M]

The mythologies explain what has always been. You don't not kill because of the law, you don't kill because you believe it would be wrong.

The stories give an explanation for the spirit of truth, but the spirit of truth has been in existence since the first person looked at something and wondered "How does that work?"

"Spirit"=force that moves or animates. Yes, the spirit of truth is a comfort, because it keeps on moving on a constant voyage of discovery; it means you don't accept the status quo but go out and seek for yourself, and you know what is true because you have experienced it.

I'm going to use a metaphor for my position here on the bible as the "word of God" as compared to the true "word of God"; A picture is worth a thousand words is an established truism. A painting of a sailboat under sail says more than a thousand words. But neither picture nor word can describe the smell of salt air, the sound of the wash under the bow or the wind in the wires. Neither can they convey what YOU YOURSELF would be feeling if you were experiencing these things right now. God is bigger than a sailboat under sail. Understand? Whereas the picture would be the scripture, the actual "word" is in the doing.

Both sailors and non sailors can look at that picture and enjoy it. If you look at a written page and say it must be true because it's written, then no, you do not have the spirit of truth any more than staring at that painting of the sailboat makes you a sailor. Become a sailor first, then look at the painting, and you are free to agree or disagree with the artist's interpretation.

Okay, Soulgazer. I have been wanting to mention to you, and your analogy brings this to remembrance, but, speaking of pictures (and all that entails): you may consider changing your tag, my friend, because every time you pop up the first word that the windows of the soul see is, unfortunately...jerk.

I bring this up, not to be a wiseacre, lol, but it is true.

May the force be with you.

 

[P1LGR1M]

First, I would to grumble about how you demonstrate the same vexing propensity of others in this forum for assuming far too much.

There is much grumbling in this response.

How then did I assume? lol, I will explain as I go.

I do not own a home or even rent one.

I am guessing you live with your mom at this point. Now that is an assumption.

Iw ill, since ai am unjustly accused of assuming, assume perhaps you do not work. Here is another one: you perhaps get Federal Assistance.

Now those are assumptions, designed to get you to further betray your liberal views further than you already have in this post...lol.

So you have never owned a home?

For your information, I lived in a barn for over a quarter of a century and have not owned a vehicle for many years.

Still more than the Lord had, my friend.

Am I supposed to equate this to piety? Or should I assume laziness and lack of motivation? Or perhaps I could assume that perhaps you have a medical condition which prevents you from engaging in activities which most people are forced to engage in, becausae most people have families due to the natural desires God has given mankind which usually results in children, who need food, clothes, and shelter.

Now perhaps engaging, contrary to the command of God, in activity that police are cpompelled to shoot you with rubber bullets impresses you, but as I said, I am a simple man, and providing for one's own family tickles the flowers out of me.

And ny the way, the facetious meter may explode on this one, so hang on to your sense of humor.

The internet service that I use is provided by someone who believes in what I do in my service to God.

Guess I touched a nerve, or two, or three...lol.

I see you inject that people in third world countries also have access..lol. Do you have food every day? A roof over your head? You are by third world standards...rich.

All that I own consists of some old clothes, an old TV set, a couple of old computers, some books, and my fossil collection…

Why you feel the need to tell me this I don't know.

Are you telling me you would like to see all living in your conditions? That may very well happen.

Even many of the poorest of the poor in Third World nations have access to the Internet….

"So me having the internet is okay, it is acceptable for poor people to have the internet, or, at least...access to it."

Alrighty then.

I was not seeking to glorify myself.

Are you sure about that? Lot of talk about Senecharnix here.

I was trying (a little too hard) to let you know some of my background so that you would enjoy an opportunity to properly evaluate what I was trying to tell you.

Okay. I did enjoy the bio, I am sorry that it raises questions for me, though there were only a few, perhaps.

That fact of the matter is that God has provided experiences to me that are far outside what the vast majority of folks experience.

I'll say.

As I tried to convey, I have met all sorts of characters. Doing so and the experiences that I have alluded to have gone a very long way to helping me see reality in depths far out of the reach of so-called normal people.

Yet, I am sorry, I see your abilities of discernment to be severely lacking.

And, are they "so-called normal people," or are they masquerading as normal people?

Among other things, I have learned that evil and deception are far more prevalent in the machinery of governments and their agencies than most folks suppose.

Believe it or not, Senecharnix, most people, even the ones poosing as normal people...are aware of this.

For Christians, we also understand that this system is a part of the world system, and is an ancient institution which plays a prominent part in scripture.

We live under a true Theocracy, and do not get caught up in the world system. Or at least some of don't, lol.

We truly live in a darkling land on a darkling world….

It is he effects of sin, no less.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Funny you should blanketly condemn all of those folks that I listed without ever having met any of them.

Do I really need to meet international criminals, gangsters, outlaws, run-of-the-mill criminals, assasins, famous murderers, devil worshippers, to guess that perhaps they are part of the world system?

Now the Catholics, I wouldn't mind meeting them, Iam assuming they are very patient people.

The truth is that I have found much good in such folks.

What is propbably more likely is that you have trained yourself to overlook sin when it is convenient.

Of course, I also discovered much evil in them, too….

But none so evil as them there bible thumpers that love God's word, study often, and go to church often...right? lol

The problem that you and I have is that we are from different universes so to say.

No it is the same universe, my friend, just different worlds.

There is no way that we will ever agree unless you become more open to truth and shun fairytale thinking.

Now you really betray your true religion...your a Democrat. lol

Typical. "Believe my way or die!" lol

Now we are getting ready to discuss some fairy tales here in a short, so hang in there.

Not everything in the Bible belongs in the Bible.

No worries, mate, the Apocrypha has been removed from most.

Quite a bit that is not in the Bible belongs in it…

Do tell.

Me, I have enough to study already, so I am satisfied that the canon I observe is sufficient to lead men to Christ.

I will give you a huge clue as to what does not belong in it. Anything that implies that Trinitarianism is worthy of inclusion should be cut out of it…I have interacted with both God and the Son.

In a Jefferson kind of devotional way of cutting out, right? Not the cutting out we see here:


Revelation 22:19

King James Version (KJV)


19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.



Let me guess, not in some manuscripts? How about this:


Deuteronomy 12:32

King James Version (KJV)


32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.




How about this, while we are in the neighborhood:


Deuteronomy 13

King James Version (KJV)


1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.



Me, I will leave it in there.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

I have been privileged to meet the latter as he was, while he walked this world as Yeshua ben Joseph.

Well, if this one you have met denied himsel;f, there is little chance it was the Lord.

Likewise, I have become acquainted with him as he is now. He and God are most certainly not the same. The Father is God. God is the Father. The Son is not God. He is the Son.

Then he was not the Lord.

Revelation 1

King James Version (KJV)



7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.



Who is in view here, Senecharnix?

And here...


10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.


Or here:


13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Is there a difference between the Father and the Son. Of course, for the Son of God took on the flesh of man that He might die in sinful man's stead.

Now let us consider God before the apokalypsis Iesous Christos:


Isaiah 41:4

King James Version (KJV)


4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he.



Isaiah 44:6

King James Version (KJV)


6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.




Isaiah 48:12

King James Version (KJV)


12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.




Genesis 17:1

King James Version (KJV)


17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.



Daniel 7:9

King James Version (KJV)


9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.




John 14:9

King James Version (KJV)


9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?



Jesus was God manifest in the flesh:


1 Timothy 3:16

King James Version (KJV)


16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.



John 1:18

King James Version (KJV)


18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.



Genesis 18

King James Version (KJV)


18 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;




Daniel 3:24-25

King James Version (KJV)


24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.

25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.



You see, it is just my opinion only, but I believe that in every instance where we see God deal directly with men, face to face, we see the Son of God.

He is God, He is, as He said, ONE with the Father.

When God took on the flesh of man, which was created by Himself in the womb of Mary, He steped into a role which would forever, as far as we know, see Him residing in glorified flesh. So there is a difference between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but as a Trinitarian I serve One God.

We will look at how many gods you recognize shortly.

COntinued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

The Holy Spirit is an entity who came from the Father but is different from Him.

Is that what this one you walked with told you?

Then it truly is not the God of scripture:


John 14:16-18

King James Version (KJV)


16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



We can truly say "Jesus came to live in my heart."

For the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE.

Deuteronomy 6:4

King James Version (KJV)


4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:



Mark 12:29

King James Version (KJV)


29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:



John 20:28

King James Version (KJV)


28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

He acts on the Father’s behalf as His ultimate emissary.

I would agree if youmean as He was an emissary on the plains of Mamre, in the fiery furnace, in the burning bush, or in the Person of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 2

King James Version (KJV)



7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.



Acts 5

King James Version (KJV)



3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.



The Spirit is God as well.

Though he represents God, he is not God.

The Spirit is God as well.

Only the Father is God. Period….

Isaiah 9:6

King James Version (KJV)


6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.



You see, because Satan is not God, he cannot duplicate the Trinity, it is beyond him. This is probably why he shows up with an angel to people.

Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Thank God that the three-headed hydra Romney lost the election and that the Democrats gained in the Senate!

Yes, who wanted someone that actually knows how to handle money in the White House anyway.

Especially when there is someone that like Antichrist, is loved by the world.

Romney would have talked too much about people working for a living.

That is not to suggest their victory will spare America from what is coming, which Republicans are primarily responsible for…

I believe it will hasten her demise, actually.

The terrorists are already emboldened. Obama sat around and let an Ambassador die. Why did it happen? Because Obama is sympathetic to Islam.

I read an article about some people in Afghanistan that are not happy about Obama being re-elected. One shopkeeper said "America needs to make sure they take out the terrorists before they leave. There are terrorists training camps right across the border in Pakistan. There are more people dying now than ever."

And...

That is not to suggest their victory will spare America from what is coming, which Republicans are primarily responsible for…

And I am accused of living in a fantasy world, right.

Big bad America, always the bully. That's okay, the day will come more than likely when the world will miss the intervention of America.

Again it must be understood that this is part of the world system. Take off the blinders, Senecharnix, Satan is behind the politics of the world. Every man that steps into the White House is going to find that out pretty quick. There are in place politics that cannot just be walked away from.

Guess when God condemned America. I will give you a clue. A very popular Republican President had just begun his second term in office…God is not going to destroy America for the reasons that you seem to think have caused her to anger God.

My guess would be it started the minute America began forsaking Him...isn;t that how it always works?

So you are a Bush hater. lol I love the signs with Bush's picture that say, "Miss me yet?"

I also love the signs that say "If you voted for Obama the first time to prove your not racist, don't vote for him this time to prove your not an idiot."

So tell me, how do you justify Obama's spending? How do you justify his Islamic sympathies?

What are you going to do if terrorists beign setting off dirty bombs in America?

I'll take a Bush, or a Romney, over Obama any year of the century. It is far better to make the enemy aware that there will be consequences, not sympathies, if they attack our country.

It has kept us safe thus far, but, the role of Government has turned more into sugar-daddy than protector of the people. But that's okay too: I believe a ground assault by a foreign (or domestic) enemy would be met with at least a few unhappy rednecks.

I would bet the tail of my favorite kitty that you endorse many of the things as good that God considers abominable about America.

You might be right: I am pro-life in every aspect of being pro-life, to include the protection of innocent babies who feel they have "been punished with a baby (your presidents words, not mine);" This also includes capital punishment and sure, ready, and severe punishment for violent criminals that endanger the lives of others.

And even the protection of poor, harmless (almost) kitties whose owners would not mind sparing them for their own enjoyment.

Funny that the things that I find abominable God also states in His word. Homosexuality, which the Democrat party kneels to, is one of those.

Ironically, Obama has the votes of two groups that are serious enemies, though one group is not intelligent to know about and has it's own special rights so in view they cannot see beyond what they want. They need to pray (lol) that Islam does not gain more ground in America than they have already. You probably cannot even find the stats, but per capita, the higher the number of muslims in a country, the higher the rate of violence. That is fact concerning this "peace-loving religion." We see fullscale bloodshed in mostly muslim states, and the lower the number of muslims, the less radical the events. Checked out any riots in France?

Do some investigative research.


Continued...

 

[Soulgazer]

Okay, Soulgazer. I have been wanting to mention to you, and your analogy brings this to remembrance, but, speaking of pictures (and all that entails): you may consider changing your tag, my friend, because every time you pop up the first word that the windows of the soul see is, unfortunately...jerk.

I bring this up, not to be a wiseacre, lol, but it is true.

May the force be with you.

Nope, don't think I will.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Read my OP Human Folly and the Wrath of God for more information.

No thanks.

I have talked with enough liberals to know that you will only get upset at my view...of your views.

They sound good, like so much of the garbage one runs across these days, wrapped in a humanitarian veil which is slowly sucking the life out of many in the world.

But like I said, amigo...Stockholm Syndrome.

The Mighty Tree is a parable of the same thing…Beware of what is coming in April of 2014….

I am actually hoping to be raptured by then, but we will see.

For the record, world events do not frighten me. I will live and die according to the timetable of the Lord, for He is in control, and my King. He it is that bears the ax which has been for some time now laid at the root of the tree.

You probably do not consider your influence as contributing.

So tell me, Senecharnix, do you receive Federal support?

Got one of thier cell phones? Food stamps? Or are you, like me, completely independant of the world system in that regard?

Just curiosity, you know I hate to assume.

Your understanding of the heavenly realms can barely even be termed rudimentary.

That is quite natural, seeing as I have a limited amount of information by which toi draw my conclusions.

By the way, do you incorporate any kind of hat in receiving your information? lol (just kidding, but if you do, I would like to know).

Angels have acted on my behalf at God’s behest.

I believe Angels act on the behalf of all those that will inherit salvation. That includes before the elect are saved.

But I have not received counsel from any angels, though they have conveyed messages to me…The Holy Ones of the heavenly realms consist of many more entities than God and the Son.

Of course.

Now where have I heard this before...

Indeed, God and the Son have countless heavenly kinfolks and neighbors very few of whom are so-called angels.

Hmmm, kinfolk. Shouldn't there be a more regal term than kinfolk? lol

Likewise, there is much more to the infernal regions than the classic idea of Hell (Tartarus/Gehenna).

You mean Hades/Tartarus and Hell?

Being limited to scripture my understanding is that Hell is not yet occupied. I would not be dogmatic about that, but, just as I do not have the liberty as a Christian to make up things up as I go in politics, but have to examine the data, even so with my Theology, I have to play ny the rules.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Satan presides over his dominion of many realms as the god of evil.

Hear, O Senecharnix...the Lord is ONE God, and beside Him is no other.

Satan is not a god, he is a fallen angel. Powerful, I am sure, but then...so is Obama.

So I am not at all impressed.

My experiences include him confronting me on three different occasions about my service to God.

My but you are powerful as well.

And so, I have seen the master of evil face-to-face. He is truly a monster and those that think there is nothing to worry about, concerning him and Hell’s torments, are deluding themselves.

I agree.

Thouugh sometimes the delusion may come from the Lord HImself, when one's conscience is seared.

You, my friend, are deluding yourself if you truly believe that he has failed to exert an immense influence on every aspect of so-called Christianity.

There is adifference between the power Satan does have as a royal pain in the keyster, and your proposal that he is more powerful than God, that He caanot build His Church.

He can. He is. And He will.

But that will probably be not for much longer.

He still exerts an enormous influence every aspect of such.

And is as powerful in the lives of Christians as they give him purchase.

The word of God is a powerful instructional device. I seldom meet or speak to people that have a love for God's word, study diligently, and go to church often that have much trouble with Satan.

The fact that humans have allowed him to corrupt such and themselves angers God.

Just not a biblical statement...sorry. God keeps his children. Remember...Father? And I have the greatest Father available to man.


Continued...

 

[strangertoo]

Where did you hear about the Comforter? The NT maybe?

try to understand , there was no NT when Jesus taught about the Comforter, the 'scriptures' Jesus refers to , authorises, are basically the OT ...