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timlamb

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You are difficult to converse with. Your responces always just border on what I was talking about or just on one small piece. You never address the issue completely.

For instants, I was talking about the fact that uni's address hell and heaven and the and their belief that there is no eternal hell and all get in. but these things do not address the fact that in verse after verse it is stated that a limited number of man will make it into God's eteranl presence. It is said in so many ways that the path is narrow and only a few will make it yet uni's respond with something about a later change of heart that is no where in scripture and contradictory to much of scripture about the kingdom of heaven and salvation.
 
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Evergreen48

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Do you not know that there is no salvation in His death? Our salvation is accomplished in His resurrection, not in His death. So when Jesus said 'it is finished' just before He gave up the Spirit and died, certainly He could not have meant anything other than His ordeal on the cross was finished.
 
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IchoozJC

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Certainly? Maybe your trying too hard to simplify the most extraordinary event to ever take place? His death on the cross was so much more than just the end of a physical life.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!


Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.


IMO, when He said, "it is finished", he was speaking of living a life of perfection and purity so that He could become our sacrificial Lamb, and so "take away the sins of the WORLD".
 
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heavensprings

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That's because you take one thing I have said and add more and more to it. Like the OP for instance, you gave too much to deal with in one post, so I just take one thing at a time. Sorry, but you throw too much out there.

And I notice you don't respond to anything I have said but throw out diversions, and quite a few of them in one go.
 
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heavensprings

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I will give you something else to ponder. I believe you see things too literally and as being 'out there' concerning other people and not yourself. It's a 'me as opposed to them' type thing.

I see the scriptures as focusing in on what is happening inside ourselves. The Kingdom of God is within, and Jesus is dealing with that Kingdom within. He is not pointing His fingers at unbelievers as the Church tends to do. He is speaking to the person you are within... within His Kingdom. So, all those parables and verses related to destroying and perishing and His saying depart from me I never knew you and all the other verses taken to mean that unbelievers will get eternal damnation/hell, are for me, within myself, to deal with the flesh/man of sin. The parts of me that are still lived in the flesh, the old man of sin that continues to raise it's ugly head every single day... must die. And this is what Jesus is referring to. We either walk in the flesh, or we walk in the Spirit... it is the flesh that is condemned within us... it has no use or purpose in the Kingdom of God.

For that reason, we are on entirely different planets as regards to how we look at scripture and the dealings of the Holy Spirit.

I see the Lake of Fire as the Word/Commandments of God issuing forth from God's mouth (my God is a consuming fire to destroy the flesh and it's works... remember the judgment is about deeds done in the flesh), I see judgment beginning with the house of God (the Church), I see the narrow way as the way of walking in the Spirit as opposed to walking the wide and easy way of anything goes in the flesh. The flesh is and will be judged.... but each in their own order, some now and some later...

Everything Jesus spoke was... Spirit and life... that is why man thinks it's foolishness... we must learn to hear the language of the Spirit in the scriptures.
 
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timlamb

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Actually, I just feel you have fringed my OP sometimes and to respond would go off topic. So I just start back on topic hoping to get you to answer my questions.
 
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timlamb

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We are on a different plain aren't we. I believe that by being litteral I am making it personal, the scriptures are very real to me. But you are right when I speak of salvation it is about others because I have listened to my Savior and I am walking the narrow road and believing by faith. I am only concerned about the salvation of others because I don't see the bible telling us anywhere that those on the wide path that leads to destruction are ever turning back. Just being spiritual doesn't save you, satan is spirit. No, Jesus spoke of the whole person, the inside comes out in our actions and the fruit we grow. You will know a tree by it's fruit.
 
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Kittenshere

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Jesus spoke many times more about Hell than He did about Heaven and never once did He suggest that Hell was a temporary condition.



There is no hell that christians speak of. The term hell simply means the ground where all dead bodies go. The grave. God is gonna torture no one. The bible says the corruptible will be raised incorruptible. Well if your gonna be raised incorruptible why would God then turn around and throw you in some non existant hellfire and torture you for all eternity. Thats just plain stupid. The lake of fire is a metaphore not a literal fire.
 
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timlamb

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Please explain yourself. I believe salvation is in the atonement which is the sacrifice of His death. The signifigance of the resurrection is that if He could not raise Himself He could not raise us. It is His power over death that is our hope, but forgiveness was accomplished at the cross.
 
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timlamb

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Only the dead in Christ are given resurrection bodies. The others stand before judgment physically dead, no restoration.
 
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Kittenshere

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WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, through FAITH." GRACE IS FREE. GRACE SAVES US. Nothing but the GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST SAVES US--NOTHING ELSE!

And we didn't "come to Christ," the Father DRAGGED US" (John 6:44),

we have not "chosen Christ," but rather Christ has "chosen us" (John 15:16).

Romans 14:11 every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess.

everyones work will be judged, we are all gonna be in Christ when God changes us.

remember saul threats and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord. He hated the teachings of Christ then He became Apostle Paul who taught the teachings of Christ. He went from bad to good which is what the lord is gonna do to us as well. It is my belief that no one is gonna perish.

at the twinkling of an eye, the corruptible will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed. 1 cor 15:52
 
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Kittenshere

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THE DEPTHS OF SATAN--teaches that what God does mostly, is HATE! He is a God of eternal hatred and vengeance. He is pictured as the chief of Hypocrites. He tells mankind of love their enemies, but shows his perverted love toward mankind by torturing most of our loved ones in fire for all eternity. God's wish of saving all humanity is thwarted by the sovereign power of man's supposed free will, and thus most of the human race will eternally hate and despise and curse their creator for ever making them. This teaching of satan has absoultely no redeeming value to it. God will be remembered eternally for being the greatest failure in the history of the universe. This doctrine is both the most evil and the most stupid teaching ever taught.


THE DEPTHS OF GOD--teaches that what God does and is, is LOVE! He is a God fully capable of bringing the whole human race to repentance through judgements and cuase man to learn righteousness. The purpose for man's creation is to teach him obedience and love, so that he can be molded into the very image of God himself and be manifested as the Eternal Sons and Daughters of God in the family of God. God's plan brings unspeakable happiness and pleasure to every creature in heaven and earth. God's plan will be totally successful down to God's very last wish. The church teaches the DEAPTHS OF SATAN NOT THE DEPTHS OF GOD and they accuse those who do teach the DEPTHS OF GOD are false prophets and of the devil.


1. Where do we find them who say they are the apostles and are not?? the church....rev.2:2


2. where do we find them who have left their first love...in the church.rev 2:4


3.wehre do we find them that say they are jews and are not, but are synagogue of Satan....in the church.rev 2:9 and 3:9


4. Where do we find satan's seat and where satan dwells...in the church. rev 2.13


5. Where do we find the doctrine of Balaam? in the church. rev 2:14


6. Where do we find them that hold the doctrine of the nicolaitans that Jesus HATED? in the church.rev 2:15


7. Where do we find that woman Jezebel, that calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce servants to commit fornication. in the church. rev 2:19


8. Where do we find the depths of satan. In the church rev.2:24


9. where do we find them that are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked. in the church.rev 3:17


There is no greater evil taught in the church today than that of the doctrine of eternal torment. There is nothing that can be taught by the mind of man or demon that is more deplorable, detestable and disgusting than the thought of being physically, mentally, and spiritually tortured for all eternity. The thought of eternal torture is far beyond all evil, immoral, corrupt, damnable, deprived, heinous,hideous, loathsome, nefarious, obscene, repugnant, vile and wicked sins of all the universe combined. The very thought, the teaching, and the doctrine, of eternal torment is the greatest evil than can ever be conceived. any human who would torture others are considered the lowest form of humanity. the chruches teach of a torture by fire in hell never ever coming to an end and they call it FAIR and JUSTICE. ETERNAL TORTURE IS NOT FAIR OR JUSTICE. But it is the depths of satan. It is INORDINATELY EVIL, IT IS THE ULTIMATE SIN AND IT IS BLASPHEMY OF ALL BLASPHEMIES. IT IS A DOCTRINE THAT DEMEANS THE VERY CHARACTER OF GOD. this doctrine of eternal torture says that God is evil and unjust beyond any sane comprehension. This doctrine says that God, who saved the worlds worst sinner that ever lived, in a flash of light, cannot save most sinners. This doctrine says God is more evil then he is loving. This doctrine makes God out to be less caring and merciful and the worst of sinners. This doctrine contradicts hundreds of scriptures. This doctrine makes God out to be a hypocrite when he tells us to love our enemies, but does not follow his own teaching.


Will the same God who says to us, love your enemies, be the one that will torutre our friends, neighbors and loved ones? Is this the reward we get for loving our enemies?? God will torture our loved ones? This is double talking, unscriptural nonsense. God wants us to love our loved ones and love our enemies, because we are growing into HIS IMAGE. You cannot show your love to your enemies by torturing them, and NEITHER CAN GOD.


On the DEPTHS OF GOD so little is taught in the churches. The doctrines that are scriptural, such as the fact that Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, and that GOD will save the whole world, and all that GOD has created is here for the purpose of training humanity to become sons and daughters of God, in the image of God.... are not taught in the churches and should be taught but instead they teach the depths of satan.
 
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Kittenshere

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To smother me with the doctrine of your beliefs will not create discussion.

If you dont feel the bible is worth disucssing then one of us is in the wrong place. Trying to find a place to discuss the bible and God in this site is harder than trying to find a needle in a haystack. I will never stop trying to post the truth about God whether its here or somewhere else nor do I think God would want me to. It does not mean one has to agree. There is no reason to come back with false teaching comment becuase the bible is NOT FALSE. But some of mankinds understanding IS FALSE which is exactly why it should be discussed.
 
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heavensprings

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Yes, as I said our MINISTRY, our COMMISSION, is Reconciliation. To share the good news with whoever the Lord lays on our hearts. But our personal relationship with the Lord is a very spiritual one... He deals with us body soul and spirit... but it is still very much spiritual. And we must take everything Jesus said to be for us personally... first.

*don't assume that just because it doesn't say those on the wide road ever turn back, that it must be saying that they stay on that wide road for eternity. I was on that wide road, and so were you... until.
 
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heavensprings

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Posts are getting off the OP. To smother me with the doctrine of your beliefs will not create discussion.

Tim, now you are confusing. You have smothered us with your beliefs in your OP. It would be better if you just provided one point/topic in an OP if you want to stay on track easier.
 
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heavensprings

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This is one great post!
 
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Evergreen48

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His death is not the good news. That He arose is the good news. (gospel).

I believe that the significance of His resurrection is that HE LIVES, and that He stands between sinful mankind and God; interceding, securing mercy and forgiveness for us. And it is for His sake only that we are forgiven.

Scripture says that God had set Him forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that were past. (Romans 3:25)

Scripture also says:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," (Hebrews 10:26)

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:8-9)


 
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timlamb

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Weren't we talking about salvation? The penelty of sin is death, which is what Christ did for us. But, the Good News, is the Kingdom story, that eternal life begins now.

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
 
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