Lucifer

[squint]

I heard an interesting take on Ezekiel 28 over the weekend.. the prince, leader, King of Tyrus, is sin personified. Makes sense to me.

Now if one can see where that "king" abides...it's a real scriptural eye opener.

 

[Tavita]

Now if one can see where that "king" abides...it's a real scriptural eye opener.

You don't mean he abides in us do you?

How about sharing some...

 

[squint]

You don't mean he abides in us do you?

How about sharing some...

Well, that serpent was committed to eating dust now wasn't he??? heh heh heh...

And if you think God was intent on the LAND of ISRAEL...you might see the GROUND that He has a deep abiding interest in is not a piece of land in the middle of the middle east...

That physical ground was surrounded by enemies to show us somethings...eh?

 

[Blood]

Your idea of Satan or his devils co-existing in the child of God as a internal dynamic opposing the indwelling Spirit is refuted by this scripture.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Satan and his devils are external of our bodies, which is the temple of God. They do not inhabit us internally. We are inhabited internally by the Spirit. There are no other tennants residing in the child of God.

 

[squint]

Your idea of Satan or his devils co-existing in the child of God as a internal dynamic opposing the indwelling Spirit is refuted by this scripture.

Paul openly admitted that God Himself placed a "special messenger of Satan" upon him. John tells us that "he who commits sin is of the devil." Sorry, sin still transpires IN believers and when it does, it's OF THE DEVIL.

Satan and his devils are external of our bodies, which is the temple of God.

Oh really? What about thoughts of sinning, like adultery? Is that not the devil in your MIND? Jesus clearly showed the existence of Satan and devils to be within mankind and He separated, commanded and opposed them IN mankinds BODIES.

They do not inhabit us internally. We are inhabited internally by the Spirit. There are no other tennants residing in the child of God.

And that would be patently false. Paul said when he desired to do good that EVIL was also PRESENT "with him." You are no exception. You are simply "led" to blame yourself alone when that is not the case. We are not speaking of outright "possession" here, but the influence of the devil remains with believers in any case, even moreso. Where the Word is sown SATAN comes immediately to steal from the heart. It's an automatic response of Satan to do so and immediately puts Satan and devils in exceptionally close proximity eh?

enjoy!

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[Mathetes the kerux]

Your idea of Satan or his devils co-existing in the child of God as a internal dynamic opposing the indwelling Spirit is refuted by this scripture.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Satan and his devils are external of our bodies, which is the temple of God. They do not inhabit us internally. We are inhabited internally by the Spirit. There are no other tennants residing in the child of God.

Except for that little part of 2 Cor 11 where God allows a Demon in Paul . . .
oops

 

[Blood]

Except for that little part of 2 Cor 11 where God allows a Demon in Paul

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities

It is quite clear from the scripture that the messanger of Satan was a physical illness or discomfort of some kind, not a personal entity that indwelt the body. That can be logicaly deduced by the data. It was a thorn in the 'flesh' not a possesion of the body by a spirit entity. It is described as a 'thing', that is not a descriptor of a spiritual entity such as a demon.

Pauls body was the temple of the Spirit. God doesn't share the holy of holies with demons.

 

[Blood]

What about thoughts of sinning, like adultery?
Who's doing the thinking?

 

[squint]

What about thoughts of sinning, like adultery?
Who's doing the thinking?

Romans 7:
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

 

[squint]

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities

It is quite clear from the scripture that the messanger of Satan was a physical illness or discomfort of some kind, not a personal entity that indwelt the body. That can be logicaly deduced by the data. It was a thorn in the 'flesh' not a possesion of the body by a spirit entity. It is described as a 'thing', that is not a descriptor of a spiritual entity such as a demon.

???When did a "messenger of Satan" become NOT a messenger of Satan??? Is a messenger of Satan not a DEVIL or a DEMON???


Luke 13:
10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. 11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.
13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? 16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Pauls body was the temple of the Spirit. God doesn't share the holy of holies with demons.

Paul says otherwise. See previous post, unless of course you want to say that the EVIL present that was with Paul was ONLY PAUL...

enjoy!

squint

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Except for that little part of 2 Cor 11 where God allows a Demon in Paul

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities

It is quite clear from the scripture that the messanger of Satan was a physical illness or discomfort of some kind, not a personal entity that indwelt the body. That can be logicaly deduced by the data. It was a thorn in the 'flesh' not a possesion of the body by a spirit entity. It is described as a 'thing', that is not a descriptor of a spiritual entity such as a demon.

Pauls body was the temple of the Spirit. God doesn't share the holy of holies with demons.

In the Greek it is aggelos satanas . . . an angel of Satan . . . same used in Revelation about the war between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels.

And, flesh can mean physical body OR fallen nature . . . either way . . . it is personified not as an IT but as a WHOM per the usage of aggelos. Can't get around it dude . . . either way you have Paul with a demon within him, either infecting a sin area or infecting his physical body . . . your contention does not stand.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

What about thoughts of sinning, like adultery?
Who's doing the thinking?

Depends on the context . . . either the fallen nature or demons.

 

[Blood]

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
Paul makes a distinction between himself (personal spirit identity) and his flesh which is a vessel made of the dust of the earth. Paul identifies himself (his unique personhood) with that which is not flesh but spirit. This is further established in a later verse where he says "so then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin". Paul is careful to differentiate his unique spiritual personhood from the flesh (made of the dust of the earth) which his spirit is encapsulated in by utilizing the phrase "I myself" thus emphasizing a clear qualitative and statal distinction between the two.

Pauls spirit (his unique personhood) is in union with Christ in the eternal realm while Pauls flesh is in union with corruption (which permeates the entire temporal creation)

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
Paul makes a distinction between himself (personal spirit identity) and his flesh which is a vessel made of the dust of the earth. Paul identifies himself (his unique personhood) with that which is not flesh but spirit. This is further established in a later verse where he says "so then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin". Paul is careful to differentiate his unique spiritual personhood from the flesh (made of the dust of the earth) which his spirit is encapsulated in by utilizing the phrase "I myself" thus emphasizing a clear qualitative and statal distinction between the two.

Pauls spirit (his unique personhood) is in union with Christ in the eternal realm while Pauls flesh is in union with corruption (which permeates the entire temporal creation)

Now could you link this to the conversation?

thanks

 

[squint]

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
Paul makes a distinction between himself (personal spirit identity) and his flesh which is a vessel made of the dust of the earth. Paul identifies himself (his unique personhood) with that which is not flesh but spirit. This is further established in a later verse where he says "so then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin". Paul is careful to differentiate his unique spiritual personhood from the flesh (made of the dust of the earth) which his spirit is encapsulated in by utilizing the phrase "I myself" thus emphasizing a clear qualitative and statal distinction between the two.

Pauls spirit (his unique personhood) is in union with Christ in the eternal realm while Pauls flesh is in union with corruption (which permeates the entire temporal creation)

Paul clearly said that EVIL WAS PRESENT with him. So I asked YOU if Paul WAS EVIL??? Can you respond???

IF Paul was NOT EVIL, what/WHO is EVIL then???

IF you say THE FLESH...you are immediately GNOSTIC in your belief.

2 Cor. 10:
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

either way you have Paul with a demon within him, either infecting a sin area or infecting his physical body . . . your contention does not stand.

Because you have SEEN THIS...Just as Jesus SHOWED us on nearly EVERY PAGE of the Gospels, you should then be ENabled to see how it is that we can love ALL MANKIND...

And SIMULTANEOUSLY hate that which is ALSO in "all" of our flesh, which would be the workings of SIN which same is OF THE DEVIL.

You as His Own are forwarned that to walk in this way is to AROUSE that working in others, even in your own flesh...and to RESIST that working OPENLY...as Jesus did.

Therein we are DIVIDED in ourselves...and we understand that Jesus did NOT come to bring PEACE, but A SWORD of DIVISION.

enjoy your Armour!

squint

 

[pehkay]

According to the Bible, sin dwells within us, in our flesh. Romans 7:20 says, “But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells in me.” The word “dwell” here indicates that sin is something living. Anything that is not living, such as a chair, cannot dwell anywhere. For example, you would not say that a chair dwells in your home. In order for a certain thing to dwell in a particular place, that thing must be living and organic. Hence, the fact that sin dwells within us indicates that sin is a living entity.


The sin described in Romans 7 is personified. The activities of sin are those of a person. Sin takes occasion through the commandment and works coveting in us (v. 8). Furthermore, sin may deceive us and kill us (v. 11). According to Paul’s word in verse 17, sin dwells in us and does certain things in us: “So now it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.” Moreover, Paul says that sin enters (Rom. 5:12), reigns (Rom. 5:21), lords it over people (Rom. 6:14), works death in us (Rom. 7:13), and is something that is quite alive (Rom. 7:9). Therefore, sin is not a lifeless element or substance. On the contrary, sin is a living thing that can dwell in us and do things against our will. This was the reason Paul could say that it was not he who did certain things, but sin that dwelt in him.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

According to the Bible, sin dwells within us, in our flesh. Romans 7:20 says, “But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells in me.” The word “dwell” here indicates that sin is something living. Anything that is not living, such as a chair, cannot dwell anywhere. For example, you would not say that a chair dwells in your home. In order for a certain thing to dwell in a particular place, that thing must be living and organic. Hence, the fact that sin dwells within us indicates that sin is a living entity.


The sin described in Romans 7 is personified. The activities of sin are those of a person. Sin takes occasion through the commandment and works coveting in us (v. 8). Furthermore, sin may deceive us and kill us (v. 11). According to Paul’s word in verse 17, sin dwells in us and does certain things in us: “So now it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.” Moreover, Paul says that sin enters (Rom. 5:12), reigns (Rom. 5:21), lords it over people (Rom. 6:14), works death in us (Rom. 7:13), and is something that is quite alive (Rom. 7:9). Therefore, sin is not a lifeless element or substance. On the contrary, sin is a living thing that can dwell in us and do things against our will. This was the reason Paul could say that it was not he who did certain things, but sin that dwelt in him.

Interesting . . . seems to have an interesting correlation to Gen 4 and sin being the name of a Sumerian Demon god.

Interesting take . . . but the Scriptures also seem to indicate that this "flesh" sarx is still us . . . but the old us . . . mysterious.

 

[squint]

According to the Bible, sin dwells within us, in our flesh. Romans 7:20 says, “But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells in me.” The word “dwell” here indicates that sin is something living. Anything that is not living, such as a chair, cannot dwell anywhere. For example, you would not say that a chair dwells in your home. In order for a certain thing to dwell in a particular place, that thing must be living and organic. Hence, the fact that sin dwells within us indicates that sin is a living entity.


The sin described in Romans 7 is personified. The activities of sin are those of a person. Sin takes occasion through the commandment and works coveting in us (v. 8). Furthermore, sin may deceive us and kill us (v. 11). According to Paul’s word in verse 17, sin dwells in us and does certain things in us: “So now it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.” Moreover, Paul says that sin enters (Rom. 5:12), reigns (Rom. 5:21), lords it over people (Rom. 6:14), works death in us (Rom. 7:13), and is something that is quite alive (Rom. 7:9). Therefore, sin is not a lifeless element or substance. On the contrary, sin is a living thing that can dwell in us and do things against our will. This was the reason Paul could say that it was not he who did certain things, but sin that dwelt in him.

It's problematic BECAUSE of that indwelling to come to grips with this FACT. It's also an ABHORRENT fact to know that our bodies are built in such a way as to ALLOW this entrance.

But God Himself has commanded that LIGHT shine from the DARKNESS. THAT indwelling then IS the DARKNESS and that DARKNESS is from:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

No, the DEVIL did not make YOU do it. The DEVIL did it.

This is HOW sins are NOT COUNTED against mankind: (2 Cor. 5:19,) but ARE counted against the DEVIL and his messengers.

This is HOW we CAN love ALL of our neighbors as ourselves in UNDERSTANDING and IN TRUTH. Because "we know" from whence comes SIN. We do not look at ANY person and just see an INDIVIDUAL. We KNOW that there is both an OFFSPRING of God in that LUMP (a VESSEL OF HONOR) AND and VESSEL of dishonor and wrath (children of the flesh/children of the DEVIL.)

When Jesus will say to apparent BELIEVERS, "I NEVER knew you" it is to the VESSELS of DISHONOR that He will be addressing. The SAME vessels of DISHONOR that He spoke to in the Pharisees calling them CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL. Jesus actually was speaking to CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL no different than Him speaking to SATAN in Peter and also in a multitude of other examples. What Jesus did PHYSICALLY the first time here in SEPARATING DEVILS from mankind...upon the NEXT arrival He will SPIRITUALLY SEPARATE PERMANENTLY when He SEPARATES the "sheep" (mankind) from the "goats" (devilkind.)

God advised Cain that sin crouched at his door, desiring to HAVE HIM. (Gen. 4:7)

Jesus advised us that upon this rock He will build His Church. The EXAMPLE that was given us was Peter who in one instance spoke TRUTH from God and IMMEDIATELY Satan shows up to STEAL and to RESIST...and Satan was therein REBUKED in Peter.

Jesus gave us a very certain PRINCIPLE for this FACT and it's a fact that remains to this day:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

To understand ALL parables, one MUST understand the parable of the sower as it SHOWS the RESISTORS.

enjoy!

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[pehkay]

Yup, sin is really Satan personified. What is so serious in man's fall is not that man did "something wrong" but that foreign element, a person, Satan came into man.

Well, we apply it positively to Christ living in us as the Indwelling One!!!

MAN AS A CREATED VESSEL TO CONTAIN CHRIST

Genesis 1:27 tells us that God created man in His own image. There is no other book in the universe that tells us in such a definite way that man was not only created by God but that he was also created in God's own image.

Who is God's image? The Bible tells us that Christ is the image of God. Second Corinthians 4:4b says, "Christ, who is the image of God." Colossians 1:15 says that Christ as the Son of God's love "is the image of the invisible God." Therefore, when God created us in the beginning, He created us according to Christ. Romans 9:21 tells us that God created us and chose us that we might be vessels to contain Him. Hence, we were not only created according to the image of Christ, but we were also created as vessels instead of instruments. Vessels are different from instruments. Knives, axes, and saws are instruments for working, whereas glasses and tea cups are vessels for containing something. God did not create us as instruments to work for Him; instead, He created us as vessels to contain Him.

Based upon Genesis 1:27, Paul wrote Romans 9:21. He realized that in the beginning God created man with clay and that this man of clay is a vessel. However, this vessel is not for containing milk or water but the God of glory. Hence, in Romans 9:23 Paul said, "In order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He had before prepared unto glory." This glory denotes God Himself, because in Psalms and Jeremiah we are told that the children of Israel forsook their glory (Psa. 106:20; Jer. 2:11) instead of being told that they forsook their God. To forsake the glory is to forsake God, because God is glory. Without God, the universe and all that is in it has no glory. God is the source of all glory and splendor.

We are earthen vessels to contain God. When God comes into us, we become vessels of glory. Man was created by God to contain God. This concept cannot be found in any other book. Besides the Bible, there is no other book in the world that has such a record. Second Corinthians 4:6 says, "The God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts." This light is the expression of glory. Without glory, there is no brightness shining out, because light is the manifestation of glory. This glory is God, and the shining forth of light is the expression of God. God shines in our hearts by Himself as the light of glory.

Our spirit is the film concealed in our heart. When the glory of the Lord shines into our heart, our spirit is exposed to the light. At this time Christ as the treasure comes into us. Following verse 6, therefore, 2 Corinthians 4:7 says, "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels." This treasure is the indwelling Christ who enters into us through the light. Our spirit is exposed to the light when we are touched as we hear the gospel of the Lord, testify for the Lord, read the Word, or study spiritual books. Although we may not be aware of it, this exposure is still working within us. Sometimes we are busy with outward affairs, and we think that the light is fading. Actually, the light to which we have been exposed still remains in us.

CHRIST'S MAKING HIS HOME

After His resurrection, the Lord Jesus became the life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b) to dwell in the spirit of those who believe in Him. Second Timothy 4:22 says, "The Lord be with your spirit," and Romans 8:16 says, "The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God." These verses show us that the Spirit is in our spirit and is mingled with our spirit so that the two spirits have become one. Today we, the saved ones, are one spirit with the Lord (1 Cor 6:17).


The New Testament not only speaks about a mysterious person, Christ, but it also speaks about one thing concerning this mysterious person, that is, that Christ indwells His believers. Ephesians 3:16, 17, and 19 say that Paul prayed for us that God would grant us, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man. We have an outer man and an inner man. Our inner man is our regenerated spirit. God will grant us, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man, which is our regenerated spirit. The Greek word for power is a very strong word and is equivalent to the English word dynamo, denoting the energizing or motivating power of a generator. God strengthens us into the inner man with power through His Spirit according to the riches of His glory that Christ may make His home in our hearts through faith.

Although Christ is in us and has shined into us, He has not yet made His home in our hearts. What does it mean to make home? It means that after arranging everything properly, He settles down. It is through faith and not by sight that Christ is making His home in our hearts. The result is that we are filled unto all the fullness of God. The fullness of God is the expression of the overflow of God. When Christ makes His home in us, we are filled with God and are full of the glory of God. As a result, we who are earthen vessels, vessels of clay, become vessels of glory. We are filled and saturated with all the riches of God so that we are full of God within and without.