Lucifer Who Is He?

[In Christ Forever]

I have been studying the term "Lucifer" after trying to find out who this "foreign god" might be in Malachi. Iaiah 14 is a lament againt the "King of Babylon" and it appears the High Priest in Jerusalem might be the one God is referring to, but I will let others look at for themselves.
It appears to be a Babylonian god. Revelation concerns "mystery babylon" so it appears we have to know about babylon as the exiles from the House of Judah came back from there. Here is some info on"lucifer" who appears to be that "foreign god. So could that be the "image" for people to worship in revelation? God bless.

malachi 2:6 The law of truth was in his[LEVI] mouth, And injustice was not found on his lips. He walked with Me in peace and equity, And turned many away from iniquity. 7 "For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge, And [people] should seek the law from his mouth; For he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But you have departed from the way; You have caused many to stumble at the law. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi," Says the LORD of hosts.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers? 11 Judah has dealt treacherously, And an abomination has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem, For Judah has profaned The LORD's holy [institution] which He loves: He has married the daughter of a foreign god.



ezekiel 21:25 'Now to you, O profane, wicked prince of Israel, whose day has come, whose iniquity [shall] end, 26 'thus says the Lord GOD: "Remove the turban, and take off the crown; Nothing [shall remain] the same. Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted. 27 Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no [longer,] Until He comes whose right it is, And I will give it [to Him."] '


TAKEN FROM THIS SITE AT:

http://www.tegart.com/brian/bible/kjvonly/isa14_12.html

The ancient Babylonians had a large pantheon of gods. One of chief Gods was "El", and his wife was "Asherah". According to the religion, El and Asherah had many children (about 70) who were gods themselves. One of these gods was "Baal", whom Asherah spent most of her time with. Scripture mentions Baal and Asherah several times. The most well-known example is perhaps in 1 Kings 18, where the prophet Elijah challenges 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of Asherah. (Note the KJV translates the Hebrew "Asherah" as "groves"). A
Two more of El and Asherah's children were twins: Shahar and Shalim, brothers of Baal. In the Babylonian pantheon, Shahar was deemed god of the dawn, and his twin brother Shalim was god of the dusk. Shahar himself also had a son, Helel.

The Babylonians believed that the planet Venus, when it appeared as a star in the morning, literally was Helel, the son of Shahar, and grandson of El. They worshipped Helel the morning star and considered him one of the more important gods.

First, note who the passage is primarily directed towards:

Isaiah 14:4 (KJV) "That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!"

Next, re-examine the disputed verse:

Isaiah 14:12 (NIV) "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"Isaiah 14:12 (NASB) "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (RSV) "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!"

Now, the underlined section in the Hebrew:

Isaiah 14:12 (KJV with Hebrew) "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Helel, son of Shahar! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Remeber, Helel was the morning star, and his father Shahar was god of the dawn. Isaiah, talking to the Babylonian King, is comparing him to (and speaking against!) one of the prominent Babylonian gods!

Isaiah did not intend "Satan" to be the subject of this verse, and it is a mistake to think so,the subject of this passage is clearly Helel - the morning star in ancient Babylonian mythology.

But "morning star" is Christ's title....
However, many KJV-only supporters still object to the use of the NIV's "morning star" and the NASB's "star of the morning" to refer to Satan in Isaiah 14:12, saying that the title is Christ's alone. However, the KJV is quite clear that it isn't:

Job 38:7 (KJV) "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

In Job 38:7, the KJV indicates that this is not just a title for Christ, as it is also given to other angelic beings. One could return the "argument" and say that if "morning star" is only Christ's title, then the KJV tell us there are many Christs because of Job 38:7! (Of course that is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than saying the NIV and NASB are equating Christ and Satan). Even if you remain unconvinced that Isaiah 14:12 is not referring to Satan, is it such a stretch to suggest that "morning star" or a similar term may be applied to Satan, since he too can appear this way? Consider:

2 Corinthians 11:14 (KJV) "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Therefore, to accuse the NIV and the NASB of giving "Christ's title" to Satan is to accuse the KJV of giving Christ's title to angels. Of course, we then see that "morning star" is simply a title that can be given to others as well.

 

[quadding]

God is a spirit being and God created man and angels in His image, we and angels r spirit being trapped inside a body, the difference between us and angels , they have a different body and they have power and authority which we do not have yet. God created the angels like the military but instead of rank He gave them power and authority, from the least in power and authority on up to general or archangel, God created 3 archangels; Michael, Grabrial, and Lucifer. Lucifer is probably the top angel because he had the authority over earth, he had the keys to life and death which Jesus took from him. Lucifer and 1/3 of the angel rebelled against God because they WANTED what God would not allow and they WANTED it MORE than they WANTED god. If they would have WANTED God MOST then they would not have rebelled. I do not know if lucifer and the 1/3 of angels thought they could overthrow God or just gain their independence from Him. Lucifer wanted to be God and the 1/3 probably wanted things like sex. war in heaven is not a matter of life and death it is a slave - master type thing , a submissive - dominance thing), God cast the angels out of heaven and they came down to earth, lucifer became what we call satan or the devil and the 1/3 of fallen angels became what we call demons, God cast most of the higher powered angels in hell , if they were turned loose on man there may not be any that would make it. one of the things that God did was take away the angels bodies making them to be forever spirits roaming whereever. most pleasure and most pain is in the body that is why they want to inhabit a body even if it is nothing more than a herd of swine, there could be more to it than just the body thing but i do not have that understanding. the way demons influence us is they raise up emotions and desires, they give us impressions and urges, and they put thoughts in our head. when we get God's Spirit in our hearts we r given the power to say no to sin and obey God and live a holy life before Him.

 

[visionary]

I have been studying the term "Lucifer" after trying to find out who this "foreign god" might be in Malachi. Iaiah 14 is a lament againt the "King of Babylon" and it appears the High Priest in Jerusalem might be the one God is referring to, but I will let others look at for themselves.
It appears to be a Babylonian god. Revelation concerns "mystery babylon" so it appears we have to know about babylon as the exiles from the House of Judah came back from there. Here is some info on"lucifer" who appears to be that "foreign god. So could that be the "image" for people to worship in revelation? God bless.

malachi 2:6 The law of truth was in his[LEVI] mouth, And injustice was not found on his lips. He walked with Me in peace and equity, And turned many away from iniquity. 7 "For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge, And [people] should seek the law from his mouth; For he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But you have departed from the way; You have caused many to stumble at the law. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi," Says the LORD of hosts.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers? 11 Judah has dealt treacherously, And an abomination has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem, For Judah has profaned The LORD's holy [institution] which He loves: He has married the daughter of a foreign god.



ezekiel 21:25 'Now to you, O profane, wicked prince of Israel, whose day has come, whose iniquity [shall] end, 26 'thus says the Lord GOD: "Remove the turban, and take off the crown; Nothing [shall remain] the same. Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted. 27 Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no [longer,] Until He comes whose right it is, And I will give it [to Him."] '


TAKEN FROM THIS SITE AT:

http://www.tegart.com/brian/bible/kjvonly/isa14_12.html

The ancient Babylonians had a large pantheon of gods. One of chief Gods was "El", and his wife was "Asherah". According to the religion, El and Asherah had many children (about 70) who were gods themselves. One of these gods was "Baal", whom Asherah spent most of her time with. Scripture mentions Baal and Asherah several times. The most well-known example is perhaps in 1 Kings 18, where the prophet Elijah challenges 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of Asherah. (Note the KJV translates the Hebrew "Asherah" as "groves"). A
Two more of El and Asherah's children were twins: Shahar and Shalim, brothers of Baal. In the Babylonian pantheon, Shahar was deemed god of the dawn, and his twin brother Shalim was god of the dusk. Shahar himself also had a son, Helel.

The Babylonians believed that the planet Venus, when it appeared as a star in the morning, literally was Helel, the son of Shahar, and grandson of El. They worshipped Helel the morning star and considered him one of the more important gods.

First, note who the passage is primarily directed towards:

Isaiah 14:4 (KJV) "That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!"

Next, re-examine the disputed verse:

Isaiah 14:12 (NIV) "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"Isaiah 14:12 (NASB) "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (RSV) "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!"

Now, the underlined section in the Hebrew:

Isaiah 14:12 (KJV with Hebrew) "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Helel, son of Shahar! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Remeber, Helel was the morning star, and his father Shahar was god of the dawn. Isaiah, talking to the Babylonian King, is comparing him to (and speaking against!) one of the prominent Babylonian gods!

Isaiah did not intend "Satan" to be the subject of this verse, and it is a mistake to think so,the subject of this passage is clearly Helel - the morning star in ancient Babylonian mythology.

But "morning star" is Christ's title....
However, many KJV-only supporters still object to the use of the NIV's "morning star" and the NASB's "star of the morning" to refer to Satan in Isaiah 14:12, saying that the title is Christ's alone. However, the KJV is quite clear that it isn't:

Job 38:7 (KJV) "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

In Job 38:7, the KJV indicates that this is not just a title for Christ, as it is also given to other angelic beings. One could return the "argument" and say that if "morning star" is only Christ's title, then the KJV tell us there are many Christs because of Job 38:7! (Of course that is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than saying the NIV and NASB are equating Christ and Satan). Even if you remain unconvinced that Isaiah 14:12 is not referring to Satan, is it such a stretch to suggest that "morning star" or a similar term may be applied to Satan, since he too can appear this way? Consider:

2 Corinthians 11:14 (KJV) "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Therefore, to accuse the NIV and the NASB of giving "Christ's title" to Satan is to accuse the KJV of giving Christ's title to angels. Of course, we then see that "morning star" is simply a title that can be given to others as well.

I think you have done a great foundational work into the workings of the Satanic religion which is he wants to replace the truth with. True you have started at the Babylonian era and have brought forth some great pieces of info, but I did not notice whether you have gone back to the Tower of Babel where you start with Nimrod, and his wife, mother. This can give you the seeds of where it all started.

There has been a huge multitude of gods over the centuries, using a wide variety of names, changing their stories, changing their demands, but they are still all the same, a great delusion, that if it were possible it would deceive the very elect.

Now just because Satan has not been visually there in the religious activities does not change that he will use the delusions he created for the ultimate grand delusion of sitting in the temple of God as the God in the end days. By changing everything in his religion, the names, the stories (slightly to fit), to sound like, seem like, and getting people to believe it, he has created an almost mirror image of the true gospel, so that when he comes as the great imitation of Jesus Christ, the world will wonder after him and bow down and worship him and accept his mark of alegiance.

So the most critical deceptions and delusions are the ones that happened after the apostles died. We have two thousand years, and one thousand of it they call the dark ages, for a reason. Someone had tried to turn out the light. For those who did not hid their light under a bush, they were killed. The start of the reformation was a dawning of a movement towards the light the is ever increases as the day draws closer for revelation to be fully open for all to see.

 

[cweb255]

Really, if you think about it, Satan is just STN from Hebrew meaning Adversary, and only appears in Job, a poem. I don't think there is a literal Satan, as opposed to clearly one's own mind, which breeds temptation. All the ideas of "Satan" and Lucifer come from the mistranslated passage in Isaiah, and the Jews, on which Christianity is founded, do not believe he represents an actual entity. Devils and Demons? Sure, but Satan, no.

 

[SPALATIN]

Really, if you think about it, Satan is just STN from Hebrew meaning Adversary, and only appears in Job, a poem. I don't think there is a literal Satan, as opposed to clearly one's own mind, which breeds temptation. All the ideas of "Satan" and Lucifer come from the mistranslated passage in Isaiah, and the Jews, on which Christianity is founded, do not believe he represents an actual entity. Devils and Demons? Sure, but Satan, no.

While you are correct in that Satan is the Hebrew word for "adversary" he is very real and is what Lucifer is now. We are told that Lucifer was the most beautiful of all the creations. Because of this beauty pride and arrogance were part and parcel to his character. Lucifer's pride in his beauty took him to put himself above God and thus he was thrown out along with 1/3 of the Angelic forces that followed him.

Satan's/Lucifer's main goal is to deny God what he believes is his and will stop at nothing to get it. Christ called him the "Father of Lies" which best represents the character of Lucifer/Satan. He is the adversary though not the equal opposite of God. His equal opposite would be the Archangel Michael.

Lucifer is mentioned in scripture a few times but known as Satan. You also can't discount the growing number who consider themselves involved in the Occult.

 

[visionary]

Jesus had a long talk with Satan in the wilderness during his forty days there. Satan hadn't changed a bit, still tempting, accusing, insinuating, and negotiating, wheeling and dealing for his own benefit. Satan was well known to Jesus and He did not state Satan you are a figment of my imagination, you do not exist, you must be some demon... No Jesus knew that he was dealing with the ruler of darkness, the king of this world, the evil originator of sin.

 

[cweb255]

While you are correct in that Satan is the Hebrew word for "adversary" he is very real and is what Lucifer is now. We are told that Lucifer was the most beautiful of all the creations. Because of this beauty pride and arrogance were part and parcel to his character. Lucifer's pride in his beauty took him to put himself above God and thus he was thrown out along with 1/3 of the Angelic forces that followed him.

Satan's/Lucifer's main goal is to deny God what he believes is his and will stop at nothing to get it. Christ called him the "Father of Lies" which best represents the character of Lucifer/Satan. He is the adversary though not the equal opposite of God. His equal opposite would be the Archangel Michael.

Lucifer is mentioned in scripture a few times but known as Satan. You also can't discount the growing number who consider themselves involved in the Occult.

You state that "we are told" that Lucifer was thrown out, but where does it really say this? I'm having a hard time finding valid scripture for this.

Jesus had a long talk with Satan in the wilderness during his forty days there. Satan hadn't changed a bit, still tempting, accusing, insinuating, and negotiating, wheeling and dealing for his own benefit. Satan was well known to Jesus and He did not state Satan you are a figment of my imagination, you do not exist, you must be some demon... No Jesus knew that he was dealing with the ruler of darkness, the king of this world, the evil originator of sin.

And you don't think it is a metaphor for the triumph of Jesus over temptation. After all, he was a human, too.

 

[Sephania]

Temptation does not exist in and of its own, there needs to be a "tempter". If there is no Satan or adversary, then why did Adam and Eve bring down a curse on themselves and get kicked out of paradise?

If you read Revelation you will find where there is a replay of history and it speaks of the dragon ( another name for Satan) in heaven, and how he took a third of the stars ( angelic being, now called demons) with him.

 

[visionary]

You state that "we are told" that Lucifer was thrown out, but where does it really say this? I'm having a hard time finding valid scripture for this.

And you don't think it is a metaphor for the triumph of Jesus over temptation. After all, he was a human, too.

Satan is a REAL evil angel. He is the ruler over the third of the angels that were cast out with him.

 

[SolomonVII]

...
So the most critical deceptions and delusions are the ones that happened after the apostles died. We have two thousand years, and one thousand of it they call the dark ages, for a reason. Someone had tried to turn out the light. For those who did not hid their light under a bush, they were killed. The start of the reformation was a dawning of a movement towards the light the is ever increases as the day draws closer for revelation to be fully open for all to see.

There is a reason that the era from, say, about 500AD to 1000AD are called the dark ages, but it has nothing to do with the reason you are giving. It had to do with barbarian invasions, and the denigration of Roman civilization through the pillaging and havoc wreaked by more primitive, barbaric peoples.

 

[SolomonVII]

the biblical reference to Satan is from Isaiah:

Isaiah 14
1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
The passage begins with that central theme of the Bible of the covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham and Jacob. There are allusions to their bondage in Egypt, which is a partial context for their captivity in Babylon. Like the archaic stories of bondage in Israel, the capture of the House of Israel by the Babylonians is a turning point in Hebrew history. The King of Babylon eventually will take on the role of vehicle of wrath that had initially been the domain of Pharaoh. For now though, Babylon is just one of the wicked nations that Isaiah will speak against in these chapters. The Babylonian captivity is still a distant future event.
There are also traces of that typically Isaiah trait of the tribal vision of the promise to Abraham beginning to take on more of a universal theme. Strangers will be joined with them.
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Another prominent Biblical them is introduced. Just as God will exalt his lowly servant and handmaids in the opening verses, the converse theme is that God will humble the proud. This theme of pride and striving to be the equal of God begins even with the words of the serpent in the garden to Eve.
It is also worth noting here, that while the king of Babylon is being referred to specifically in the above verse, it is also talking about wicked rulers in general as well.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
If the king of Babylon were as great as the god that he pretends to be, wouldn't he be missed? With sarcasm and wit, Isaiah points out that great kings are a dime a dozen, and not nearly as important in the scheme of things as they would like to think themselves to be. The mortality of the king of Babylon and those other men like him that pretend to rule as gods is implicitly contrasted with the ancient forests of Lebanon which have a greater claim to the immortality of the gods than any king would.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
There is a continuation of Isaiah's sarcasm in this sardonic lament for the king of Babylon. The morning star, Venus, is an allusion to the astrologically based religion of the Babylonians.
It should be noted however that in no way can it be construed that Isaiah actually regards the king of Babylon to be Lucifer, the light bearing one, the morning star of Babylonian mythology. He is merely mocking the pretensions of the current king.
The spiritual force that motivates this pretension however is one and the same as that which motivates Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit in the garden. The serpentine temptation to be subservient to no one -to actually be God- is one and the same for the current king of Babylon and for the countless kings that have proceeded and will succeed him, is one and the same as what tempted the first man and woman to partake of the fruit.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
The king's own mortality is repeatedly being referred to. The king needs to act in a treacherous, ravaging manner in order to convince himself of his own power and greatness. He leaves destruction and suffering in the wake of his pretensions to be great.

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
In this prophecy, which is really more common sense than prophecy, Isaiah points out that the all the evil that this king does will only do a dishonor to even his memory. Just as even the trees will be happy to see him go, so will the people that he has oppressed. While everyone dies, the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. The Hitlers of the world are cursed in their graves, while the Ghandis and the MLKjr's are praised and glorified long after they are dead.

21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
The chapter ends with the promise of the Lord to establish that justice, but not the wicked, will prevail.
***************

So, to return to the opening post, is there still a Biblical basis for the Christian equating Satan with Lucifer?
In terms of this passage, it must be first pointed out that Isaiah uses the name Lucifer sardonically. Lucifer, or the god associated with Venus in Chaldean Astrology, would not even exist as anything other than a false god for any Judean prophet, and certainly the Babylonian king is not this god, but is merely a mortal man.

The spiritual reality, however, is that the idea of being Lucifer tempts the king of Babylon into his delusions of grandeur. This is the equivalent of the serpent tempting Eve and her partner into believing that they could be equals to the Most High, and the equivalent of Satan attempting to tempt Jesus into walking away from the plan that God has laid out for him in exchange for worldly power.

Satan is the personification of that appeal to human vanity and our false sense of pride that we are actually of a grander design and more important than we were created to be. It is this delusional pride, and the underlying lack of humility that is so necessary in order for us to accept ourselves just as we are, that is the connective theme. This theme links Satan, the serpent and Lucifer into one and the same spiritual force of false light.

This is not to say that the spiritual reality of Lucifer/Satan/ is mere metaphor and literary device. Evil is a definite part of our human reality.

 

[Sceptile]

We are told that Lucifer was the most beautiful of all the creations. Because of this beauty pride and arrogance were part and parcel to his character. Lucifer's pride in his beauty took him to put himself above God and thus he was thrown out along with 1/3 of the Angelic forces that followed him.

This position is a combination of truth with fiction. Yes, Satan is the dragon who fell from heaven and took a third of the angels with him. You will find it in Revelation 12. The rest is the creation of John Milton in Paradise Lost.

Unfortunately, Milton has misinterpreted Isaiah in viewing the image as one depicting Satan. Consider v. 9-11 of Isaiah 14: "In the place of the dead there is excitement over your arrival. World leaders and mighty kings long dead are there to see you. With one voice they all cry out, 'Now you are as weak as we are! Your might and your power are gone. They were buried with you. All the pleasant music in your palace has ceased. Now maggots are your sheets and worms your blanket."

If you know Bible truth, you know that this cannot be a picture of Satan at all. Satan does not go to "the place of the dead," he is already there. Neither was Satan "buried," and at no time has he had, nor at any time will he have, "maggots and worms." Those are things that happen after death to creatures of flesh and blood. Nor will you find any account which describes him as having a palace with pleasant music.

But the objection might be raised that the more pertinent details are found beginning at verse 12, with the "O how you are fallen from heaven." The idea of "heaven" here is metaphorical, speaking of the king's lofty image of himself. It does not fit Satan because in v. 13, it says, "For you said to yourself, 'I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God's stars.'"

Well, according to the legend that the Satan interpretation follows, Satan was supposedly already there, the most beautiful of the angels. One who is already in heaven would not have to "ascend to heaven," it simply doesn't fit. All the language about ascending or being thrown down is only metaphorical language speaking of kingly position and authority, and subsequent deposition.

Further, in v. 18: "The kings of the nations lie in stately glory in their tombs, but you will be thrown out of your grave like a worthless branch. Like a corpse trampled underfoot, you will be dumped into a mass grave with those killed in battle."

Satan cannot be thrown out of a grave he never had and will never have. His end is foretold in Revelation, his doom is to be the lake of fire. The mention of dumping in a mass grave is a solid indication this is talking of this king and not of Satan, and is simply pointing out that the high and mighty oppressive king will not be distinguished in death from those he considered common. Go beyond v. 18 and you will also find that the text proclaims that the line of kingly succession will end with him, that Babylon will be filled with porcupines, swamps, and marshes. These are hardly descriptions that would apply in the least to Satan, they are earthly outcomes.

Place these remarks in their context, and they are one of several words proclaimed against various nations, beginning with Babylon, and continuing through the rest of this chapter and beyond with proclamations against Assyria, Philistia, Moab, Damascus, Ethiopia, Egypt, Edom, and others.

The use of lucifer was also metaphorical, it is in the Hebrew helel, the name was used to refer to Venus, the morning star, and the brightest heavenly in the night sky other than the moon. The KJV translators lifted the term without translation or alteration straight from the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible. It does mean, literally, "light-bringer": quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes.

The word appears only here in the OT, but there is also one other reference where it appears in the NT, in 2 Peter 1:19----et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris.

These are words of assurance given to Christians undergoing persecution, reminding them to look ahead with hope to the time when Christ will appear, and "the Daystar dawn in your hearts." It is a clear reference to Jesus Christ, not to Satan, dispelling further the myth which has surrounded the misinterpretation of this word. Certainly the Bible is not guilty of such mixture of meaning in its symbolism that a word would be translated symbolically as representing in one place Satan, and in another Christ.

You can take it as a certainty that this will not sway a lot of people, and many will still use Lucifer as a "name" for Satan, and will read satanic interpretation into anything they find employing the term. It has been one of the most persistent untruths to circulate in the Christian belief system, and will probably stay with us for quite some time. It surprises me how many people there still are who speak of Satan being "the brightest angel who fell because of pride," as though it were Scriptural, when in fact the only part of the concept that is biblical is the fall of Satan itself. The name, the idea of him as the brightest angel are not.

 

[StevenL]

"Lucifer" is another name for Venus, the morning star. ( Not mentioned several times in the Bible as indicated, but once, and that in an incorrect sense.

Satan ( or actually ) the Adversary is God's prosecuting attorney and destroyer.

 

[Archangel]

What about Ezekiel 28? Is that Satan being described in his origianal glory?

 

[In Christ Forever]

If you know Bible truth, you know that this cannot be a picture of Satan at all. Satan does not go to "the place of the dead," he is already there. Neither was Satan "buried," and at no time has he had, nor at any time will he have, "maggots and worms." Those are things that happen after death to creatures of flesh and blood. Nor will you find any account which describes him as having a palace with pleasant music.

But the objection might be raised that the more pertinent details are found beginning at verse 12, with the "O how you are fallen from heaven." The idea of "heaven" here is metaphorical, speaking of the king's lofty image of himself. It does not fit Satan because in v. 13, it says, "For you said to yourself, 'I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God's stars.'"

The only real reference we have to anyone being called of their father the devil or serpents is when Jesus was talking to the self righteous corrupt rulers of Jerusalem. The house of Judah/Levi were God's chosen to take care of the temple services for Him and I guess they "fell" in their task. God bless.

44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and [does not] stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources,] for he is a liar and the father of it.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat...... 13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! 14 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!....16 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say,....17 "Fools and blind! For which is greater.... 19 "Fools and blind! For which is greater,.... 24"Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!...33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

john 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

John 16:11 "of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

roman 16: 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

 

[Sephania]

And no wonder, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

For if a man knows not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of G-d? Not a novice, lest being lifted up he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

What is the condemnation of the devil ? lifted up = pride.


One has to ask themselves, if Satan isn't the one who sinned then why is he cast into the lake? What did he do to deserve this punishment if not rebellion ?

 

[In Christ Forever]

And no wonder, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

For if a man knows not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of G-d? Not a novice, lest being lifted up he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

What is the condemnation of the devil ? lifted up = pride.

One has to ask themselves, if Satan isn't the one who sinned then why is he cast into the lake? What did he do to deserve this punishment if not rebellion ?

And that appears what the rulers in Jerusalem had done. The devil could be a group of people that were following his devices and Jesus appears to be saying this the Priests and their followers of the House of Judah/Levi[malachi 2,3]. Just a view I have. God bless.

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and [does not] stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources,] for he is a liar and the father of it.

reve 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

reve 3:9 "Indeed I will make [those] of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie -- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

reve 18:23 "The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."

 

[Sephania]

Because they were not of the G-d appointed priesthood, plain and simple. It was a corupt leadership, just like one finds everywhere else. The real high priest was out in the desert and then put to death but the puppet King of Judea.

 

[Sceptile]

ICF,

Thanks for sharing, and have a blessed day.