Lucifer and Satan:two differnt beings??

[kulenok]

I have heard that they are two different beings, and I thought I would ask some Christians. Are they? All views accepted.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Lucifer?

What's a Lucifer?

I'm kidding of course, but making a point in the process.

The only lucifer in the Bible is in Isaiah 14, which refers to the falling morning star. It was translated lucifer into English, but really just refers to the 'morning star'- a title of the Babylonian king that will fall before the power of almight God.

Could Satan have been an angel at one point? Sure, maybe. Could his name have been Lucifer at that time? Sure, it's vaugely possible.

But Scripture doesn't say a thing about that. It's possible, and I won't get on anybody's case who believers it... and it's not that I don't believe it.... but where Scripture is silence, I guess I should be, too.

 

[xristos.anesti]

I would recommend this article in my favourite encyclopaedia: Lucifer

Many years.

 

[micbmac]

I have always been taught and believe that Lucifer and Satan are the same being.

There is only one reference to a being falling from Heaven in the OT. That being was Lucifer (Isaiah 14:9-16).

It says in the NT (Rev. 12:7-9) that Satan fell from Heaven.

Satan has many different names. Just think of all the different names and titles of God.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I have always been taught and believe that Lucifer and Satan are the same being.

There is only one reference to a being falling from Heaven in the OT. That being was Lucifer (Isaiah 14:9-16).

It says in the NT (Rev. 12:7-9) that Satan fell from Heaven.

Satan has many different names. Just think of all the different names and titles of God.

Yes but why would you associate the two?

Moreover, the falling of lucifer from heaven in Isaiah 14 isn't a literal account. It's an account of the fall of the king of Babylon from the heights of his pride.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A glider pilot described his experience as, "Soaring like an eagle!" Being a literalist Christian I corrected him by reminding him that only an eagle can 'soar like an eagle'. I also cautioned him that if he used that metaphor he would run afoul of others who either couldn't understand what he meant, or who simply wouldn't accept the literary device that he employed in describing his experience.

I then advised him to describe his flight as, "Gliding through the air like a man in a glider."

 

[DArceri]

Posted by GratiaCorpusChristi

Yes but why would you associate the two?

Moreover, the falling of lucifer from heaven in Isaiah 14 isn't a literal account. It's an account of the fall of the king of Babylon from the heights of his pride.

(God said to the king of Tyre) "By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones." (Ezek 28.16)

NOTE: Guardianship is the main job of cherubim (plural of cherub), as is demonstrated by Genesis 3.24, and as is illustrated by Exodus 26.18 and 25.22a. (See also Ezekiel chapters 1 and 10.)

As stated in Ezekiel 28.14, Satan is the cherub who was anointed by God to the incredibly high honor of serving as a personal guardian to God's presence and holiness.

NOTE ALSO: Throughout the Bible, Satan is consistently characterized as God's premier enemy, a rebel against all that God stands for. In fact, the Hebrew word "satan" means "enemy."
Like Satan, Lucifer became an enemy of God. ("I will exalt my throne above the stars of God...")
Like Satan, Lucifer rebelled against God and sought to take God's place. ("I will be like the Most High...")
Like Satan, Lucifer ascended into God's own heaven in order to conduct his rebellion. ("I will ascend into heaven...")
In Luke 10.18, Jesus reports that He witnessed Satan "fall like lightning from heaven." Isaiah 14.12 states that, like Satan, Lucifer fell from heaven. ("How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer...")

 

[Solidlyhere]

I don't think it matters, one way or the other.

The Bible did not make it clear if Lucifer is an A.K.A. for Satan.
That must have been for a reason.
God chose to NOT tell us.

So, I think they are the same ... but NO ONE knows except God (and He's not talking about it).

 

[epyon]

This is one of my best sites when comes to this subject http://www.steliart.com/angelology_fallen_archangel.html hope it helps.

 

[spirit1st]

In a sense they are .because he was perfect.but lost his name or maybe it was his title!
none the less,he is different.he once was holy .but now very evil
changed into a 100% different being1
he is made of jewels and stones.nothing like us .except he is a spirit.
like we are spirits and our FATHER GOD is a spirit!
he hates mankind and fears the least christain.
he knows we have power over him.our power is in the name above all names?JESUS CHRIST!
satan puts thoughts in every persons mind .just as our lord does.we decide which thoughts to beliebve and live
we can rebuke him and tel him in the name of JESUS CHRIST to get out and take your dumb thoughts with you.he must go.
but he will try again

 

[spirit1st]

Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Eze 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
Eze 28:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
Eze 28:5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffic hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
Eze 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
Eze 28:7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
Eze 28:8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
Eze 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
Eze 28:10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

\Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
E
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
this is the yoyo! sorry it is so big

 

[BethelArsonist]

The deeper you get into the understanding of scripture, I believe, the more you may begin to accept, as I have, that there is really only one supernatural being. In fact, God says "Beside me there is no God, I know not of any."

I think He is right. The term, satan, means "adversary," while the pronoun, Lucifer, seems to be an associative name Isaiah coins to refer to the "state of mind" he describes it as.

It was through many centuries of Christian "mythology," it seems to me, that the idea was solidified of there being another supernatural being besides God.

But don't be fooled. Let Satanists believe in Satan, and be deceived. And let Christians just believe in God.

 

[lokt]

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!..." This is the only time in the entire Bible where Satan’s name is mentioned. The Hebrew word (if we take Strong’s acceptance of the Masoretic text’s vowel points as reliable) is heylel, meaning "the morning star." But the word from which this is derived--and perhaps the actual word itself, since the consonants are identical, is halal: to be clear, to shine, which has a second, less flattering connotation as well. It can mean "to make a show, to boast," hence, to be "clamorously foolish," to "stultify." Webster defines stultify: "To make or cause to appear foolish or ridiculous; to reduce to foolishness or absurdity; to render wholly futile or ineffectual." The next time you’re tempted to give Satan any credit or respect, remember that. By the way, halal in Arabic means "moon god," a proper definition of Allah. If you didn’t know before, now you do: Allah and Satan are one.
"How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God [a euphemism for angels]; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High....’" Sorry, big guy. You’re a couple of dimensions short of deity. This is like Goofy announcing that he’s going to draw Walt from now on--it’s absurd.
Isaiah had his number. "Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol [the abode of the dead], to the lowest depths of the Pit. Those who see you will gaze at you, and consider you, saying: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world as a wilderness and destroyed its cities, who did not open the house of his prisoners?’" (Isaiah 14:12-17) Notice that Satan and the men he deceived into doing his bidding ("those who see you") are all going to be together in the "Pit," but "his prisoners" seem to be in a different category. Satan--he who seemed so formidable when he roamed the earth "like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour"--will be an object of scorn and derision in this brave new underworld. Forget the odd idea that hell is Satan’s realm--he’s merely one of the inmates, toothless and impotent.
To answer your original question, the answer is yes although opinions may differ as to the name or origins of his name.
Isaiah called him Halal ben Shachar,(somewhat very loosely translated 'arrogant fool'), which was rendered Lucifer in the latin, which means 'son of the dawn'. The light connotations being aspirations of usurping Yahuweh's light, being a secondary, reflective/false light, or both.
Satan is hebrew for 'adversary', the greek 'satanis' means accuser.
However, we can forget the name. Knowing he exists and has a very definite potential to deceive and kill physically, (by proxy), and spiritually, is what's important.

 

[DArceri]

The deeper you get into the understanding of scripture, I believe, the more you may begin to accept, as I have, that there is really only one supernatural being.

The existence of Satan as real is proved by the fact that Jesus recognized him as such. He referred to him frequently by name (e.g., Luke 10:18; Matthew 4:10; etc.), and indeed called him “the prince of this world” (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11).

 

[BethelArsonist]

This question was asked by a 13 year old guys. Let's keep it simple here. Christians should believe in only one God, only one supernatural being. There is a "spirit" of Satan that exist most definitely, but it is not an apparition - a dead soul. It is a state of mind born of the natural animal tendencies of man in the heart of man that man must tame. It also, through men, gains power in high places.

Let's not confuse the kid. I can remember, as a kid his age, lying awake at night being afraid of the Satan idea like you describe when there was no good reason for it.

Satan is not a god, don't make him one.

 

[Merciel]

I agree with another poster that the Isaiah reference doesn't refer to the devil, but to the actual king of Babylon. I think the only place in the OT you'll find the devil is in Job. All other satans I don't think refer to that satan.
I'm of the belief that satan is a broad concept that could refer to the fallen angel known as the devil or a state of mind. It's kind of confusing, but a lot of the Bible is confusing.

 

[Merciel]

The deeper you get into the understanding of scripture, I believe, the more you may begin to accept, as I have, that there is really only one supernatural being. In fact, God says "Beside me there is no God, I know not of any."

I think He is right. The term, satan, means "adversary," while the pronoun, Lucifer, seems to be an associative name Isaiah coins to refer to the "state of mind" he describes it as.

It was through many centuries of Christian "mythology," it seems to me, that the idea was solidified of there being another supernatural being besides God.

But don't be fooled. Let Satanists believe in Satan, and be deceived. And let Christians just believe in God.

There are many supernatural beings out there besides God though. Michael, for example. Satan isn't a god and nobody (except perhaps satanists) believes he is.

 

[DArceri]

This question was asked by a 13 year old guys. Let's keep it simple here. Christians should believe in only one God, only one supernatural being. There is a "spirit" of Satan that exist most definitely, but it is not an apparition - a dead soul. It is a state of mind born of the natural animal tendencies of man in the heart of man that man must tame. It also, through men, gains power in high places.

Let's not confuse the kid. I can remember, as a kid his age, lying awake at night being afraid of the Satan idea like you describe when there was no good reason for it.

Satan is not a god, don't make him one.

Who says Satan has any power other than what God gives him? So let me get this straight, you don't believe in angels either? If that is correct then the Book of Revelation is a complete sham since angels appear in almost every chapter.

 

[BethelArsonist]

Ive heard that too Merciel

I saw a really involved study one time that went into greater detail about that. This study related Lucifer to the captive side of the house of David - from the wives of David that God took and gave to his enemy. This was about 250 years after David, when they may have become a formidible cross-bred people. They were children of Esau (Edom), but claimed the right to the throne apart from the kingdom. And the Edomites were confederate with Babylon even when Judah went into captivity.

 

[BethelArsonist]

The book of Revelation is entirely symbolic entirely, no exception. And the term angel, merely means messenger