LDS Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers!
- Thread starter rockytopva
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Again, this is all evidence of roles, not species. Verbs like "he hath appointed heir" all point to roles, and would be completely unnecessary if they were different species.
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There only one some 'kind of other Gospel'...
And yet you're the one saying stuff which is completely not in the Bible...
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The scripture supporting Christ as the one species above all under God's creation...
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? - Hebrews 1
The scripture supporting Lucifer as an Arch-Angel at best...
There are seraphim and cherubim for example... The best biblical description of cherubim (sing cherub) is to be found in the story of the Ark of the Covenant, and it appears that they were sphinx-like creatures with human heads, the bodies of lions and two wings. Seraphim are described in Isaiah 6:2 as part of God’s retinue and it seems they were creatures of fire, with six wings.
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. - Jude 1:9
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: - 1 Thessalonians 4:16
It is widely regarded that Gabriel will be the archangel that blows the trumpet in the last day. So that is two archangels, Gabriel and Michael. As three is the number of perfect union so we assume Lucifer as the third archangel, especially as scripture says...
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:- Isaiah 14:12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12
Notice that the devil took a third part of the stars with him. This is because the devil was an Arch-Angel over a third of the angels. As three is the number of completeness, so Lucifer left a void in heaven, in which we humans were created to fill. The fallen angels know this, and war with us over their vacated positions.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? - Hebrews 1
The scripture supporting Lucifer as an Arch-Angel at best...
There are seraphim and cherubim for example... The best biblical description of cherubim (sing cherub) is to be found in the story of the Ark of the Covenant, and it appears that they were sphinx-like creatures with human heads, the bodies of lions and two wings. Seraphim are described in Isaiah 6:2 as part of God’s retinue and it seems they were creatures of fire, with six wings.
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. - Jude 1:9
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: - 1 Thessalonians 4:16
It is widely regarded that Gabriel will be the archangel that blows the trumpet in the last day. So that is two archangels, Gabriel and Michael. As three is the number of perfect union so we assume Lucifer as the third archangel, especially as scripture says...
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:- Isaiah 14:12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12
Notice that the devil took a third part of the stars with him. This is because the devil was an Arch-Angel over a third of the angels. As three is the number of completeness, so Lucifer left a void in heaven, in which we humans were created to fill. The fallen angels know this, and war with us over their vacated positions.
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What beyond heaven and earth? Not only that but it says He created ALL things.
Jesus is the eternal word of God. He's is not created. (John 1:2, 14)
The word was God, the word became a man.
Can you give me scriptures to support your posts please
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Lucifer was a creation but that does not mean he is a child of God. Based on your logic you would have to say that all of God's creations are God's children. That would mean rocks, puppies, fish, ect are children of God also. That does not make sense.
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"In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God." (John 1:1)
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
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John 1 says Jesus is God! Therefore HE IS THE FATHER ALSO! So technically Lucifer is the son of Jesus based on your logic and the belief in the holy trinity.Please, show me were it says that Christ, Lucifer, Michael are different species.
Show me support from the Bible that arch-angels and angels are different species.
Oh, you just share with us your own unbiblical doctrine? Then you should say so.
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What of that doesn't make sense? Do you think that there is another wellspring of life besides the Father?
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Jesus and the Father are one. So based on your logic, technically Lucifer is a child of Jesus.
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And you? So is the Father really your Heavenly GrandFather? I don't remember that being how scripture tell us to address Him...
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There are plenty of evidence in the bible that supports the trinity. "But that is a topic for another thread [emoji41] ".
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If you don't believe that Jesus is God then you are calling Jesus a liar.
Here are my biblical references.
Jesus Said He Existed Before Abraham
"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."
The people said, "You aren't even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"4
Jesus Said to See Him is the Same as Seeing God
Jesus shouted to the crowds, "If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."5
"No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied."
Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"6
Jesus Said He Could Forgive Sins
"...that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--he then said to the paralytic--"Rise, pick up your bed and go home." And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God..."7
He said to them, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."8
Jesus Said He Is the Judge and Can Grant Eternal Life
"For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father."9
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live."10
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."11
"For it is my Father's will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day."12
Jesus Said He Was the Same as God
"The Father and I are one."
Once again the people picked up stones to kill him.
Jesus said, "At my Father's direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?"
They replied, "We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God."
Here are my biblical references.
Jesus Said He Existed Before Abraham
"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."
The people said, "You aren't even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"4
Jesus Said to See Him is the Same as Seeing God
Jesus shouted to the crowds, "If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark."5
"No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied."
Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"6
Jesus Said He Could Forgive Sins
"...that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--he then said to the paralytic--"Rise, pick up your bed and go home." And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God..."7
He said to them, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."8
Jesus Said He Is the Judge and Can Grant Eternal Life
"For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father."9
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live."10
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."11
"For it is my Father's will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day."12
Jesus Said He Was the Same as God
"The Father and I are one."
Once again the people picked up stones to kill him.
Jesus said, "At my Father's direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?"
They replied, "We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God."
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Agreed. But for the purposes here, suffice it to say that Mormon's are non-Trinitarians and believe that Christ is the Father's SON.
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