Loving the Sinner

[GMRELIC]

I'm a bit tired of the "hate the sin, love the sinner" arguments against homosexuality.

Now...I'm sure a few of you actually practice this belief -- if so, good job! If not -- please stop the lip service...this phrase is getting almost as annoying as Adam & Steve.

Do you really love the sinner?

Do you want homosexuals to move in next-door?

Do you want your children playing with the adopted children of a homosexual couple?

Do you want to work alongside a homosexual person?

Do you want to invite a homosexual person to eat dinner with your family?

How many of your friends are homosexual? Your close friends? Your best friends?

What would you think if a family member were gay?

After honestly answering these questions (you need not answer these publicly)...ask yourself again...am I loving the sinner?

I so agree with you on this, I really detest the Phrase Love the Sinner hate The Sin, I see very little Love being givin to this group of people.
Love is demonstrated in actions, Love is not pointing to a group of people, and telling them what a foul, disgusting group they are. Love is not trying to belittle them to try and make them believe the way someone wants them to believe. Love is not being disruptive and annoying and gay events.
These actions tend to drive alot more people away from the Lord than to even bring someone close to him. If we want to demonstrate love we should, help cloth the poor, feed the hungry, nurture the sick. volenteer time to help
those in need, show compassion, don't spread hatred.

 

[merryheart]

Last time I saw that argument on these boards, it was directed at interracial couples. We still see people on this very forum decrying "racial mixing" because they worry about acceptance at school.

The way I see it, I have two options in how I approach the question of children raised by families that some people will look down on.

I can talk about how the parents shouldn't have done that, and thus contribute to an atmosphere of hostility and contempt, and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy, or I can treat them like other parents, and let it be just another baseless worry.

I can't do much about how other people treat people, but how I'm called to treat them is clear.

You can read more about how people deal with interracial relationships on this blog, which collects news stories from a number of sources on this topic.

The problem of prejudice is not one we can best confront by telling people not to be members of groups there is prejudice against.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to seebs again.

Very true! If we all lived by this truth there wouldn't be much left to debate, would there

 

[morningstar2651]

I'm sure most of the people who have viewed this thread have realized its purpose.

It's to remind people that their actions speak far louder than their words.

 

[praying]

Being a child of a interratial couple allows you to bond with other interatial kids as well black also allowing you into certain gangs etc. This alone will help you alot throw your school life.

Well we can see where you are coming from, where to begin.

Bonding with "interatial kids as well black" Not the black kids ohh yes we want to bond with them because it:

"allowing you into certain gangs" and we all know all black kids and Hispanics are in gangs and whites never are.

"This alone will help you alot throw your school life" Being in a gang helps with school? I missed that course. Apparently it does not help everyone allot through school.

 

[praying]

Oh im sorry i should not have assumed that you where familiar with the differances between typical black/interratial and gay families.

Please define for us the following typical family units:

Interracial
Black ( I can't wait for this definition)
Homsexual

My point being that they will most lickely be raised in completly differant backgrounds.

:o

Not to mention that that children growing up in a homosexual family will most of the time lack a father figure.

I doubt it, somehow I think that all lesbian couples know some men that they can rely on to impart fatherly wisdom and of course Gay couples, well that speaks for itself, two father figures!!

 

[SnowBear]

Because being raised by a Homosexual couple will result in trouble when the child goes to school. Its difficault enough for alot of ppl to get through junior-high school with out having the additional burder of having a gay couple.

if you are truly concerned about such things why don’t you do something about prejudice and bullying?

Oh im sorry i should not have assumed that you where familiar with the differances between typical black/interratial and gay families. My point being that they will most lickely be raised in completly differant backgrounds. Not to mention that that children growing up in a homosexual family will most of the time lack a father figure.

our son has two fathers.



Single parents manage to raise healthy well adjusted children every day. your supposition that lack of a parent of one or the other gender is somehow harmful is without support.





And our son is bi-racial…just like his dads

 

[SnowBear]

There is much evidence, as stated in another post (need to find it) that there is absolutely NO difference in the psychological wellbeing/adjustment of the child in regards to heterosexual vs. homosexual familial upbringings.

allow me:
The main study in this is one completed by Judith Stacey and Timothy Biblarz

Stacey and Biblarz “(How) Does Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?”American Sociological Review, 2001, Vol. 66 (April:159–183) 159



“the results demonstrate no differences on any measures between the heterosexual and homosexual parents regarding parenting styles, emotional adjustment, and sexual orientation of the child(ren)” parents or their children.”

And:

”studies find no significant differences between children of lesbian mothers and children
of heterosexual mothers in anxiety, depression, self-esteem, and numerous other measures of social and psychological adjustment. The roughly equivalent level of psychological well-being between the two groups holds true in studies that test children directly, rely on parents’ reports, and solicit evaluations from teachers. The few significant differences found actually tend to favor children with lesbian mothers Given some credible evidence that children with gay and lesbian parents, especially adolescent children, face homophobic teasing and ridicule that many find difficult to manage (Tasker and Golombok 1997; also see Bozett 1989:148; Mitchell 1998), the children in these studies seem to exhibit impressive psychological strength.”


It is true that children raised by same sex parents are not identical to children raised by heterosexual parents. It seems that children raised by same sex parents feel that they have few limitations placed on their careers of choice:

“daughters of lesbian mothers reported greater interest in activities associated with both “masculine” and “feminine” qualities and that involve the participation of both sexes, whereas daughters of heterosexual mothers report significantly greater interest in traditionally feminine, same-sex activities (also see Hotvedt and Mandel 1982). Similarly, daughters with lesbian mothers reported higher aspirations to nontraditional gender occupations (Steckel 1987). For example, in R. Green et al. (1986), 53 percent (16 out of 30) of the daughters of lesbians aspired to careers such as doctor, lawyer, engineer, and astronaut, compared with only 21 percent (6 of 28) of the daughters of heterosexual mothers.”

As for the implied but unstated assertion that children raised by same sex parents are more likely to be gay and lesbian Stacy and Biblarz concluded:

“these young adults … were not statistically more likely to self-identify as bisexual, lesbian, or gay. To be coded as such, the respondent not only had to currently self-identify as bisexual/lesbian/gay, but also to express a commitment to that identity in the future.”

 

[hernyaccent]

I personaly dont have anything agasint homosexuals as long as they dont want to adopt and raise a child.

Then you do have something against us. My girlfriend and I plan on having children and will do an amazing job of it. You may be able to deny homosexual men the right to raise children but you cant do the same to two lesbians if one bares the child. How do you feel about this situation?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Umm what are you talking about. Being gay seems to be the in thing atm.

I personaly dont have anything agasint homosexuals as long as they dont want to adopt and raise a child.

How is it the "in thing"? Why would you be against someone raising a child?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Because being raised by a Homosexual couple will result in trouble when the child goes to school. Its difficault enough for alot of ppl to get through junior-high school with out having the additional burder of having a gay couple.

Proof?

 

[hernyaccent]

Oh im sorry i should not have assumed that you where familiar with the differances between typical black/interratial and gay families. My point being that they will most lickely be raised in completly differant backgrounds. Not to mention that that children growing up in a homosexual family will most of the time lack a father figure.

WOW. This is very interesting. What is a typical black, typical interracial and typical gay family?

I am multi-racial but raised by black grandparents. I spent my entire life in the best schools in New York City. Never went lacking for anything. I don't speak " ebonics" and I am fairly educated.We shared family events and church on the weekends. I was told never to see skin color and that the " white man" of the old days shouldnt be my view of whites today. Is that a typical interracial - black household? After living my life this way I realized I was a homosexual. Now I am involved in a long term relationship with a Mexican American whom I plan on having children with. We plan on raising our children to accept everyone even the religious funds of the world. They will be well rounded and open minded and that in my opinion is not very " typical" . Do you feel as if it is?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Being a child of a interratial couple allows you to bond with other interatial kids as well black also allowing you into certain gangs etc. This alone will help you alot throw your school life.

Wow, I know you didn't just type that.

 

[Krysia]

WOW. This is very interesting. What is a typical black, typical interracial and typical gay family?

I am multi-racial but raised by black grandparents. I spent my entire life in the best schools in New York City. Never went lacking for anything. I don't speak " ebonics" and I am fairly educated.We shared family events and church on the weekends. I was told never to see skin color and that the " white man" of the old days shouldnt be my view of whites today. Is that a typical interracial - black household? After living my life this way I realized I was a homosexual. Now I am involved in a long term relationship with a Mexican American whom I plan on having children with. We plan on raising our children to accept everyone even the religious funds of the world. They will be well rounded and open minded and that in my opinion is not very " typical" . Do you feel as if it is?

Great post

 

[Krysia]

Wow, I know you didn't just type that.

LOL - that was my reaction, too

 

[praying]

LOL - that was my reaction, too

Takes all kinds me thinks.

 

[seebs]

Oh im sorry i should not have assumed that you where familiar with the differances between typical black/interratial and gay families.

I'm afraid we'd have to see your support for your claims about what's "typical".

My point being that they will most lickely be raised in completly differant backgrounds. Not to mention that that children growing up in a homosexual family will most of the time lack a father figure.

Hmm. This is an interesting argument, at least... But in fact, it turns out that parents are quite flexible, and don't seem to have any trouble providing their children with role models.

In fact, studies show a few interesting results. For instance, children raised by a lesbian couple may benefit; both women tend to be more involved with the children than a "father" would (Tasker, at Birkbeck college). The notion that children require one parent of each "type" fell apart some years ago; studies comparing different sets of parents reveal that, while children raised by single mothers tend to do poorly, chingle raised by widows tend to do fine. In short, it's not the lack of a father figure, but rather, qualities likely to be associated with single parenting (perhaps low income?) that appear to be the problem.

If you want more information, look at the 1996 Hawaii supreme court case ruled on by Kevin Chang; in it, the state (the "defense") produced a number of expert witnesses to support their claim that same-sex parents would be unfit; in fact, the witnesses testified that they would be fit, while perhaps occasionally marginally less so... But the judge found that, compared to some of the other family structures we accept, a committed pair of same-sex parents were probably a better bet.

(I'm afraid I can't offer a direct link to the ruling, but the ruling is absolutely fascinating; make the time to visit a law library and pick it up. The case was decided originally in December of 1996. Hawaii since passed a law which effectively overturned the ruling, but the actual facts of the case are still correct.)

 

[JustJack!]

In these times, disfunction is the norm. The days where ppl got married, settled down in a 2 bed/2 bath house with a white picket fence and had 2.5 children are over.

 

[LiberatedChick]

Do you really love the sinner?

Yes. Though I must add that I am human and therefore not perfect, I'm sure there are times when I'm not as loving as I should be.

Do you want homosexuals to move in next-door?

There's 15 other flats our block, I'm sure there's all kinds of different people living nearby. So no it wouldn't bother me at all.

Do you want your children playing with the adopted children of a homosexual couple?

My husband and I don't currently have any children but I would have no problem with it if the children were well behaved and they got on. Same with the children of hetrosexual couples.

Do you want to work alongside a homosexual person?

Maybe I already do. I don't tend to question the sexual preferences of my colleagues.

Do you want to invite a homosexual person to eat dinner with your family?

Depends if I got on with them and they with me. The same goes for hetrosexuals though...I'm not going to invite a stranger or someone I don't get on with to dinner.

How many of your friends are homosexual? Your close friends? Your best friends?

Currently, none that I know of. However, I must add that I tend to keep myself to myself and so don't have many friends. I did have a gay friend whilst in school, I wasn't Christian then but she was a very nice person.

What would you think if a family member were gay?

I have a gay family member and like with most things just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I can't love them. I've had friends with all kinds of religious beliefs but just because they differ from me and I don't agree with their beliefs doesn't mean that I can't be friends with them. It's the same with all differences imo...no one's going to be a carbon copy of me and so if they're willing to not let differences get in the way of a friendship, or in this case, a family relationship then neither will I.

 

[chalice_thunder]

... children growing up in a homosexual family will most of the time lack a father figure.

Not if they're being raised by gay dads? They get 2 father figures!