Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

[thomass]

Our Savior does much more than save us from our sins.
We need Him for every prayer...in His name, to Father.
We have been given His mind, and with it deal with everything from waking up in the morning till our last prayers before we go to sleep.
But He has already saved me from my sins.

He has saved you from the condemnation of sin, if you do not understand you still commit sin in your flesh, you are in trouble, for the Holy Spirit is the convictor of sin. So where is the Holy Spirits conviction in your life?

 

[thomass]

Anyway, only dropped into the website again for a short stay, must go. It is non productive seeing others woodenly quote the letter and making statements that bear no reality to there's or anyone elses lives. No stimulating conversation possible

 

[nolidad]

I see these websites have not improved much. People woodenly quote the letter where it suits them, that bears no reality to there's or anyone elses life, but believe they are qualified to preach the word. Reading the bible is great, but, if you cannot understand the true message in it, you are left with nothing relevant of which to help others. The notion that Christians live sinless lives in their flesh, is, to put it mildly, nonsense.

I would love to see all of us who love the Lord live sinlessly perfect lives. It would be awesome to never do anything again that grieves the Spirit and brings dishonor to the one who loves us so. The Bible says it is possible to do so, but not even Paul said he had attained perfection yet near the end of his life.

What causes me to stand against this sinless perfection on this thread is th efocus on works for reward and that devilish theology that is a believer commits one sin- they are lost and can never be saved again ! That God has n patience or mercy or kindness for His less than perfect children. This lie must be opposed and rebuked!

 

[Phil W]

According to your belief, to dwell on impure thoughts means a person cannot be a born again Christian for they commit sin, bring forth fruits of the devil, and Christians cannot commit sin. Don't water it down now

I agree, as it is written that Jesus said "That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matt 5:28)
That would encapsulate the idea of dwelling on something.

 

[Phil W]

I will not join people who woodenly quote the letter without understanding the message contained in it. Nor will I join in hypocrisy. You are nowhere near sinless in your flesh. You would do well to remember the following:
The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matt7:2

I'm sure the site, as well as I, will welcome you back when you are ready to debate a subject.
If quoting scripture is defined as "wooden", it is the only thing that is God inspired and never changing.
Men's interpretations do.
So, do you want what God inspired or what man has done with it?
BTW, my "flesh" was killed for it's sins. (Rom 6:23)
I now walk in the Spirit, the light: and there is no sin in here.

 

[Phil W]

I would love to see all of us who love the Lord live sinlessly perfect lives. It would be awesome to never do anything again that grieves the Spirit and brings dishonor to the one who loves us so.

Why do you fight so hard against the idea then?

The Bible says it is possible to do so, but not even Paul said he had attained perfection yet near the end of his life.

The only thing Paul had yet to "attain" was his new body. (Phil 3:21)

What causes me to stand against this sinless perfection on this thread is the focus on works for reward and that devilish theology that is a believer commits one sin- they are lost and can never be saved again ! That God has n patience or mercy or kindness for His less than perfect children. This lie must be opposed and rebuked!

Real believers don't commit sin, as His seed within them precludes evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
So that POV is a moot point.
As for "works for reward"...works done by those who have crucified their old selves and been reborn to walk in newness of life with Christ are done in the fear of the Lord, as Peter writes in 1 Peter 1:17..."And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:"
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom. (Pro 1:7, 9:10)
And by the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil. (Pro 16:6)

 

[Jan001]

Born of water is a Hebraism that means natural birth. We have a saying these days when a woman gewts ready to deliver--"her water broke". It does not mean water and spirit baptism.

Born of flesh means natural physical birth. That is what Nicodemus was referring to in the following Scripture passage:

John 3:4-7
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew. rsv

Jesus explained that being born from a mother's womb is a fleshly birth. Jesus explained that being born of water and the Spirit is to be spiritually reborn. Jesus explains how this spiritual birth is accomplished by His command in Matthew. Baptism as Jesus commands is what makes us His disciples.

Matthew 28:18-20
"Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” niv​

We always as believers abide in Him- He never leaves or forsakes us! His mercies never end!

To continue to believe in God requires continued obedience to His commandments. Acts 14:21-23

Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. rsv

1 John 2:3
And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. rsv

And I do follow Him- but it does not mean sinless perfection as some who have been deceived by that abominable lie believe.

It is wonderful if one can attain sinless perfection in thei slife. But God our Father never stops loving HIs children when we have bad days!

Sinless perfection is what we are commanded to strive for. Luke 13:23-28, Hebrews 4:1-12, Phil 3:8-12

It is true that God never stops loving His children when they have bad days. It is also true that if His children fail to repent and confess their mortal sins before they die, they will condemn themselves to the second death/eternal hellfire.

Matthew 13:19-21
When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. rsv

MORTAL SIN:

1 John 5:16-17
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. rsv

Well we are all in the state of sanctification! We are all being made holy. some are further along than others! We are declared holy and now God is making us holy (saints simply means set apart ones which is also a meaning of sanctification- to be set apart for noble or holy uses.)

All who follow Christ by continuing to obey His commandments are in a state of sanctification. All who have forsaken Christ by refusing to continue to obey His commandments have rejected their faith. They have fallen away from Christ. They have denied Christ.

Hebrews 12:25
See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. rsv

1 Timothy 1:18-20
This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, 20 among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. rsv

Christians can deny Christ by their sinful deeds. Christians can reject the faith by their sinful deeds.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. rsv

Matthew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. rsv

If we sin mortal sins we are actually denying our faith in Christ before men.

Now read it again more closely this time! Jesus said " I NEVER KNEW YOU" not I knew you once but don't know you now! IOW these are people who were never saved, they were trying to please God by good works which cannot happen ever!

There is no "time frame" with God. There no past or future. There is only the present. If a person dies with unrepented mortal sins on his soul, he will not inherit eternal life. The righteous person who sins a mortal sin dies spiritually at the exact instant that he sins the mortal sin. Christians who commit mortal sins and do not repent before death do not inherit eternal life.

So when Jesus claims, "I never knew you", it means that He does not know them presently. IF the Holy Spirit is not present within a person's soul presently, Jesus' claim is that He does not know him, and therefore He also claims that He never knew him because only the present matters to Him. The past does not matter.

Ezekiel 33:11-16
Say to them, As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death (spiritual) of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live (spiritual); turn back, turn back from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel? 12 And you, son of man, say to your people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him when he transgresses; and as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall by it when he turns from his wickedness; and the righteous shall not be able to live by his righteousness when he sins. 13 Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live (spiritually), yet if he trusts in his righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered; but in the iniquity that he has committed he shall die (spiritually). 14 Again, though I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ yet if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has taken by robbery, and walks in the statutes of life, committing no iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. 16 None of the sins that he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right, he shall surely live. rsv

Examples of mortal sins:

1 Corinthians 6:8-10
But you yourselves wrong and defraud, and that even your own brethren. 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. rsv

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. rsv

Colossians 3:5-6
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. rsv

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one (Christian) does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv

We do please God by doing the good works/deeds that God had prepared for us to do before we were born. We will indeed be judged by our works/deeds. In fact, our deeds/works will determine whether we are approved to inherit eternal life or whether we are condemned to the second death which is eternal hellfire. We were created to do good works/good deeds/produce good fruit. If we fail to do the good works that we were created to do in Christ Jesus, we are not true followers of Christ and so we will be thrown into eternal hellfire.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. rsv

Matthew 3:7-10
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sad′ducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bear fruit that befits repentance, 9 and do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. 10 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. rsv

Matthew 7:13-20
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. 18 A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits. rsv

 

[Jan001]

Jesus said God is the God of the living, not of the dead.
You have made the mistake of equating "life" with the "condition of the vessel".

A person can die a physical bodily death but his spirit cannot ever die because his spirit is immortal. Therefore God is the God of the spiritually living even if his physical body is in the grave/tomb. Physical death does not separate the righteous man from God.

All sins warrant death.
Fortunately, it is written..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
..................There is no righteous man who still commits sin.

Righteous men do indeed daily commit sins that are not mortal.

1 John 5:16-17
And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. 16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. rsv


The righteous man chooses to not sin mortal sins.

1 John 5:18
We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. rsv

We know that a man who truly loves his wife does not sin the sin of adultery. He chooses for himself to not commit adultery.

Any one born of God who truly loves Him does not sin mortal sins. The righteous person chooses for himself to not commit mortal sins and therefore God keeps him saved/righteous by continuing to abide in Him. Or if he does fall away through mortal sin, he immediately repents and confesses his sin so that God's Spirit will once again abide in him.

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” rsv

Proverbs 24:16
for a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again; but the wicked are overthrown by calamity. rsv

Psalm 51:10-14
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
and put a new and right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence,
and take not thy holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of thy salvation,
and uphold me with a willing spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors thy ways,
and sinners will return to thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God,
thou God of my salvation,
and my tongue will sing aloud of thy deliverance. rsv

We choose for ourselves daily moment by moment, by our thoughts, words, and deeds, whether we sin not mortal sins or mortal sins or whether we remain steadfast in perfect obedience to God's commandments.

 

[nolidad]

ohn 3:4-7
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew. rsv

Jesus explained that being born from a mother's womb is a fleshly birth. Jesus explained that being born of water and the Spirit is to be spiritually reborn. Jesus explains how this spiritual birth is accomplished by His command in Matthew. Baptism as Jesus commands is what makes us His disciples.

That would be incorrect! Jesus shows the two (flesh and water) and Spirit and Spirit. It is also a hebrew idiom that natural birth is born of water. That is where we get the expression "my water broke".

Water Baptism does not save! It is for those who are already saved. It is simply obedience to Jesus and it is a public declaration of what has already taken place inside!

Sinless perfection is what we are commanded to strive for. Luke 13:23-28, Hebrews 4:1-12, Phil 3:8-12

No argument from me here!

So when Jesus claims, "I never knew you", it means that He does not know them presently. IF the Holy Spirit is not present within a person's soul presently, Jesus' claim is that He does not know him, and therefore He also claims that He never knew him because only the present matters to Him. The past does not matter.

That would also be incorrect! Jesus is the creator of words and their meaning! Jesus did not say "I do not know you" which would be presently, but He said I never knew you which means at no time did He have a relationship with that person! Please do not blame Jesus for incorrect grammar, and then subtly correct what you deem wrong! Jesus said what He meant and meant what He said!

MORTAL SIN:

1 John 5:16-17
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. rsv

All sin is mortal!
Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

James 2:

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So tell a little white lie and you have violated the whole!

We were created to do good works/good deeds/produce good fruit. If we fail to do the good works that we were created to do in Christ Jesus, we are not true followers of Christ and so we will be thrown into eternal hellfire.

This is also incorrect!

Yes we are to do good works! But they do not save us or keep us saved- the New Testament is absolutely clear that Jesus saved us and keeps us until the day or redemption-Period!

You would make Gods love conditional and that is a lie!

You mentioned Eph. 2:10. Too bad you didn't read the prior verses!

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

saved is in the perfect passive participle which simply means it was done once for all time and needs not to be repeated!

So what about our works?

1 Cor. 3:

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Learn verse 15! And be free of fearing God will stop loving you if you do really bad! His love will He not take away from His children.

JOhn 3: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

And believe means trust or relies upon or has confidence in- not maintaining good works and avoiding "MORTAL" sins (all sins are mortal.)

 

[Hazelelponi]

BTW, my "flesh" was killed for it's sins. (Rom 6:23)
I now walk in the Spirit, the light: and there is no sin in here.

1 John 1:8

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"

Pride goeth before the fall.

 

[nolidad]

Why do you fight so hard against the idea then?

I don't fight against teh idea of sinless perfection. I denounce and call it a false gospel your concept that if a believer sins He has forever lost their sin and if they don't maintain sinless perfection they are children of darkness- that is an unbiblical lie. and if you studied th eword you would know that as well!

The only thing Paul had yet to "attain" was his new body. (Phil 3:21)

This is a lie!

Verse 12:

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Paul declared he wasn't perfect yet! Twisaitng pauls words demeans you!

I have spent enough time with you! I have showed you how those who taught you this are deceivers and preaching a false gospel. I have shown you that yes we should constantly stirve for perfection, but there is life long forgiveness for the children of God.

You have chosen to reject this- so be it! I cannot wish you well in any ministry you endeavor to do, for you are basing it on a lie! Iwill let God judge between us!

 

[BCsenior]

Reborn people cannot commit sin?
I guess they have no need of a saviour from sin then. Father and Spirit will do?

Welcome, Thomass ...

Yes, the #1 reason the Word came to earth (and became Jesus)
was to FREE all of God's precious BACS from their slavery to sin!
Meaning ... since they were new creations in Christ,
they were actually FREED from their bondage to Satan and sin!

However, they still could CHOOSE to continue being habitual sinners,
IF they desired to do so, and chose to do so!
Why? Because they are NOT robots with NO free will, that's why!

 

[nolidad]

Welcome, Thomass ...

Yes, the #1 reason the Word came to earth (and became Jesus)
was to FREE all of God's precious BACS from their slavery to sin!
Meaning ... since they were new creations in Christ,
they were actually FREED from their bondage to Satan and sin!

However, they still could CHOOSE to continue being habitual sinners,
IF they desired to do so, and chose to do so!
Why? Because they are NOT robots with NO free will, that's why!

This is 100% wrong!

The reason Jesus emptied HImself, became a man was to pay for our sins! He suffered the wrath of god for our sins in our place! That is why He came!

 

[BCsenior]

Yes I understand. You (Phil W) needed a saviour from sin at the point of conversion, and possibly until you got baptised, but not after that

Thomass, you have been correctly enlightened ...
initially forgiven for your sin does NOT mean forever forgiven for your future sins!

What sense does this make? ...

(1) Repent of past sins, but NOT repent of future sins?

(2) Be forgiven of all past sins, and then ...
after becoming a new creation in Christ,
after receiving the Holy Spirit inside,
after receiving all of God's Scriptures ...
... also automatically be forgiven of future sins?

(3) IGNORE/REJECT all of God's many dire warnings in the NT
about habitual sinning?

No way, Jose!

 

[BCsenior]

I see these websites have not improved much. People woodenly quote the letter where it suits them, that bears no reality to there's or anyone elses life, but believe they are qualified to preach the word. Reading the bible is great, but, if you cannot understand the true message in it, you are left with nothing relevant of which to help others. The notion that Christians live sinless lives in their flesh, is, to put it mildly, nonsense.

Some deceived "believers" acknowledge they sin,
but claim they will NOT be held accountable because ...
their sins are automatically cleansed by the blood of Jesus (or some such excuse).

These deceived "believers" have fallen into Satan's current trap of the day,
which is in alignment with an olde trap of his ... OSAS or eternal security.
The current trap is free-grace, grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
It also is straight from the very pits of hell.

BACs have responsibility and will be held accountable
... not only re: rewards ... but more importantly for their salvation!

 

[BCsenior]

I see these websites have not improved much. People woodenly quote the letter where it suits them, that bears no reality to there's or anyone elses life, but believe they are qualified to preach the word.

For years, I have warned there are tares (weeds) in the churches and in Christian forums!
Watch out for them ... for the devil uses them to confuse God's real BACs!
I am talking in general, and I am not pointing out anyone specifically.

 

[Phil W]

A person can die a physical bodily death but his spirit cannot ever die because his spirit is immortal. Therefore God is the God of the spiritually living even if his physical body is in the grave/tomb. Physical death does not separate the righteous man from God.

Are the twenty four elders around the throne of God alive or dead?
Isn't Enoch still alive?
And Elijah?

Righteous men do indeed daily commit sins that are not mortal.

Were that true, then Romans 6:7, 1 Peter 4:1, 1 John 3:9, and 1 Cor 15:34. among others, are all lies.
They are not lies.
We CAN be free from sin.
That is the result of "turning from" sin...repentance!
By making a distinction between mortal sins and any other type of sin you do yourself a grave disservice.
All sin carries the same punishment.

The righteous man chooses to not sin mortal sins.

Any sin makes a man UNrighteous.

1 John 5:18
We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. rsv

Isn't this verse proof of my words?

We know that a man who truly loves his wife does not sin the sin of adultery. He chooses for himself to not commit adultery.

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” rsv

The scripture declares that sinners do not have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We choose for ourselves daily moment by moment, by our thoughts, words, and deeds, whether we sin not mortal sins or mortal sins or whether we remain steadfast in perfect obedience to God's commandments.

All sin will incur the wrath of God.
Thankfully, God has provided all we need to remain faithful.
Temptations are tests of our faith.
Every sin betrays faithlessness.

 

[Phil W]

1 John 1:8

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"

Pride goeth before the fall.

John is addressing two very different kinds of men and their differing kinds of walk in 1 John 1.
Some are walking in the light, which is God, and there is no sin in the light-God. They have had ALL their past sins washed away by the blood of Christ
The others walk in darkness, sin, and cannot say they have fellowship with God or that they have no sin.
It is incumbent on us to remain in the light-God.

If you have confessed your sins and been washed with the blood of Christ, can't you say you have no sin?

 

[Phil W]

I don't fight against teh idea of sinless perfection.

I'ld put a "puzzled face" emoji here if I could.

I denounce and call it a false gospel your concept that if a believer sins He has forever lost their *** and if they don't maintain sinless perfection they are children of darkness- that is an unbiblical lie. and if you studied the word you would know that as well!

It isn't a lie, as 1 John 3:9-10 says the same.
You make it easy for yourself to take the mark of the beast and not offend your conscience.
(I blanked out what I feel was a miswording above,
If you edit it later, so will I.)

This is a lie!
Verse 12:
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Paul declared he wasn't perfect yet! Twisaitng pauls words demeans you!

He mentions in Phil 3:21 what he had yet to experience for his ultimate perfection...a glorified vessel.
BTW, who is he addressing in verse 15?

I have spent enough time with you! I have showed you how those who taught you this are deceivers and preaching a false gospel. I have shown you that yes we should constantly stirve for perfection, but there is life long forgiveness for the children of God.

It is insanity to strive for the impossible.
Thank God it IS possible.

You have chosen to reject this- so be it! I cannot wish you well in any ministry you endeavor to do, for you are basing it on a lie! I will let God judge between us!

Matt 5:48..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

 

[Hazelelponi]

John is addressing two very different kinds of men and their differing kinds of walk in 1 John 1.
Some are walking in the light, which is God, and there is no sin in the light-God. They have had ALL their past sins washed away by the blood of Christ
The others walk in darkness, sin, and cannot say they have fellowship with God or that they have no sin.
It is incumbent on us to remain in the light-God.

If you have confessed your sins and been washed with the blood of Christ, can't you say you have no sin?

• Pulpit commentary 1 John 1:8
• Verse 8. - After the great message," God is Light" (verse 5) and its application to ourselves (verses 6, 7), we are now told what walking in the light involves:
• (1) consciousness of sin and confession of sin (verses 8-10);
• (2) accepting the propitiation of Jesus Christ the Righteous (1 John 2:1-2);
• (3) obedience (1 John 2:3-6). If we say that we have not sin. The present ἔχομεν again shows that the daily falls of those who are walking in the light are meant, not the sins committed in the days of darkness before conversion. The Lord's Prayer implies that we must daily ask forgiveness. We lead ourselves astray from the truth, and have no right estimate of the gulf between our impurity and God's holiness, if we deny this habitual frailty. In the sunlight even flame throws a shadow; and that man is in darkness who denies his sin. The truth may be near him; but it has not found a home with him - it is not in him. Πλανᾷν is specially frequent in the Revelation, and always of arch-deceivers - Satan, the beast, antichrist, false teachers; it seems to imply fundamental error (comp. 1 John 2:26)

As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10

There is a difference even saved between us and God, and it is in perfect Holy light we show our God, and our Lord - show Him in the truth of perfection such as He is..

We need to be able to recognise ourselves, in the fullness of our sin and our frailty and our weakness and our need, before we can show the light of Christ to the world.

Yes I have sinned, and fallen short of the Glory of God, and I do this daily..I am not saying look at me and see God, I am saying see God - for He is Holy Holy Holy something I can never be, but if God be willing, I can come close to sharing this truth with just one lost soul.

This is meat. If you say you have no sin the truth is not in you.