Love Thy Enemy... But to what extent?

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

If you love your enemy they would no longer be your enemy.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If you love your enemy they would no longer be your enemy.

Abraham Lincoln, when asked what he did about his enemies (is said to have) replied, "I make friends of them." Smart dude that Lincoln.

 

[Nithavela]

Christianity is a far too usefull tool in war to be allowed pacifism.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

The trouble with most people is they are too busy waiting for Love to come to them that they forget it's already lies within them and just needs to be released. It's like thought. It's a seed that only grows when it is removed from it's container and shared appropriatly with the world.

 

[lisah]

So, are you twisting my words to try and make it seem like I am encouraging hate?

No. You were soliciting interpretations regarding the phrase "Love thy enemy" and I gave mine.

I said nothing personal, and I used my own words based, in part, on The Book of Luke and other concepts that I connect to that.

Maybe I did not understand what you were asking for?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The trouble with most people is they are too busy waiting for Love to come to them that they forget it's already lies within them and just needs to be released. It's like thought. It's a seed that only grows when it is removed from it's container and shared appropriatly with the world.

Most people do possess true love, but cannot overcome the mystery of iniquity.

 

[Sketcher]

In this situation we are deciding the daughter is more valuable than the enemy. Does God look at His creation and place quantitative value on everyone, or are all of us equally precious in is sight? Consider the parable of the 1 lost sheep out of 100.

Loving the enemy at the expense of the daughter is a sin against the daughter. It's one thing to love your enemy. It's another to love your enemy so much that you aid and abet the evil that they are trying to do.

If you love your enemy they would no longer be your enemy.

That didn't work for Jesus when they crucified him, there were many other martyrs this didn't work for either.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

That didn't work for Jesus when they crucified him, there were many other martyrs this didn't work for either.

Uh, excuse me, but it did. You seem to think that since the opposing charactor doesn't return kindness with warmth then there is nothing. That's not what love is about. Love is a gift that frees you up from a lot of negative effects of life. It is a gift and if you expect a reward back for your efforts then it is not a gift but an anticipated exchange.

 

[Bknight006]

Could you please elaborate by posting and explaining scripture that God 'permits us to join the military' and also to 'defend ourselves physically'.

It is never stated directly within the Bible, but the lack of condemnation of soldiers throughout the Gospels combined with the numerous wars waged by Israel that were ordered by God says a lot about the matter. Since I'm too lazy to elaborate myself, I'll let this essay explain further (with more detail and Biblical referencing than I could possibly manage anyways; I'm not particularly familiar with the details of Scripture.)

Anyways, when tyrants and forces of evil threaten the world, a nation, or a people, are we supposed to stand aside and allow them to bring the world into an oppressive dictatorship? What if the Christian Franklin Roosevelt had stood aside and allowed Imperial Japan to conquer America, knowing that it would lead to the death of millions and the devastation of American cities? What if the Anglican Winston Churchill had allowed the Nazi and Italian Empires to continue on their warpaths, knowing that it would lead to the fall of Great Britain and the genocide of numerous ethnic groups? It would have led to mass destabilization, the destruction of numerous cultures, and the death of potentially hundreds of millions. Japan, Germany, and Italy would still be totalitarian empires rather than peaceful democracies. Racism and hatred would be societal norms rather than reviled concepts. That sort of world is one that very few would want to see.

Also, read the essay I originally posted. No offense, but it really doesn't seem like you did.

 

[Sketcher]

Uh, excuse me, but it did. You seem to think that since the opposing charactor doesn't return kindness with warmth then there is nothing. That's not what love is about. Love is a gift that frees you up from a lot of negative effects of life. It is a gift and if you expect a reward back for your efforts then it is not a gift but an anticipated exchange.

You seem to be getting at something that was completely different than the point I was attempting to make - loving an enemy doesn't make them stop being an enemy to you. Jesus forgave the guards as they continued to crucify him, but that didn't bring them around. They continued to be his enemies, as shown by their continuing to crucify him rather than let him go or give him a quicker death.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

You seem to be getting at something that was completely different than the point I was attempting to make - loving an enemy doesn't make them stop being an enemy to you. Jesus forgave the guards as they continued to crucify him, but that didn't bring them around. They continued to be his enemies, as shown by their continuing to crucify him rather than let him go or give him a quicker death.

Dude. an enemy to you is a person you call an enemy, not what they call you. The love you have is your love and if it's unlimited, then anything they did to you will just sadden you, because you understand the madness that they are going through.

It doesn't matter how much they hate you, because you are inoculated against that anger by the love you expend around you. It's the same thing as a parents love for a child who is cursing them out because of them being a teenager and being caught in that crazy world between being a child and an adult. The child might despise them, but all the parent wants to do is hug their child and pray for them. This, to me is what love is.

It might be insane to the casual observer, but that how many times haa anyone seen a beautiful women in the arms of a ugly man and wondered what she saw in him? She sees in him the vission she precieves through the lenses of love. There is no other explanation.

I hope this helps you with what I was explaining earlier.

 

[lisah]

That didn't work for Jesus when they crucified him, there were many other martyrs this didn't work for either.

I am thinking there may be confusion here between the meaning of Enemy (a person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.) and having Enmity ( a feeling or condition of hostility; hatred; ill will; animosity; antagonism) toward another person.

There is no certainty that those who were martyrs held enmity toward a person who may have been an enemy. I am thinking that may be intent of the original post, at least in part.

 

[Sketcher]

Dude. an enemy to you is a person you call an enemy, not what they call you. The love you have is your love and if it's unlimited, then anything they did to you will just sadden you, because you understand the madness that they are going through.

It doesn't matter how much they hate you, because you are inoculated against that anger by the love you expend around you. It's the same thing as a parents love for a child who is cursing them out because of them being a teenager and being caught in that crazy world between being a child and an adult. The child might despise them, but all the parent wants to do is hug their child and pray for them. This, to me is what love is.

It might be insane to the casual observer, but that how many times haa anyone seen a beautiful women in the arms of a ugly man and wondered what she saw in him? She sees in him the vission she precieves through the lenses of love. There is no other explanation.

I hope this helps you with what I was explaining earlier.

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree - my thoughts and feelings towards a person alone are not what makes said person an enemy. I can be very loving toward someone, but if in spite of that they either begin to or continue to harm me, their deeds and the evil in their hearts define the person as my enemy. Even if I love that person to death.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree - my thoughts and feelings towards a person alone are not what makes said person an enemy. I can be very loving toward someone, but if in spite of that they either begin to or continue to harm me, their deeds and the evil in their hearts define the person as my enemy. Even if I love that person to death.

Hate has a way of being revealed and most people gravitate away from negitivity. People who hate are more an enemy to themselves because they end up pushing themselves further and further into the darkness and closer to those who have no life at all, just a bitter attitude towards everyone who doesn't agree with them.

I know where you are coming from, but this is the way I deal with people who have addicted themselves to the intoxicating insanity of hate. It devours all that it embraces.

 

[Black Dog]

. But what is interesting is that Rand's greatest teacher, Aristotle, defined love the same way the Christians do, "...wishing for him what you believe to be good things, not for your own sake but for his, and being inclined, so far as you can, to bring these things about" (Rhetoric, II, 4). Indeed, this is St. Thomas' source. It is also interesting that, when talking about the efficacy of Christ's passion, St. Thomas notes that the efficacy comes primarily from Christ's love rather than his suffering, clearly indicating a difference between love and self-sacrifice.

Considering Aristotle came before the bible, I don't think it's that surprising. Much of the bible has it's basis in previous myths, legends, and stories.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Of course, everyone's familiar with the phrase "Love thy enemy". However, what do you interpret that as? To what extent to you take that?

First of all this means you are to return good for evil. Treat people the way you want to be treated, not the way they treat you. Think of a waitress in a restaurant. No matter how mean the customer is to her, she is still nice to them because she wants the tip. As a Christian we are to be nice to people who are mean to us because of the reward we will receive from God.

 

[joshua 1 9]

People who hate are more an enemy to themselves

Sometimes this can be based on unforgiveness. The reason we forgive is for our own benefit. To be unforgiving hurts us more then the person we hold resentment against. We see this in divorce situations. In the Muslim nations if a girl rejects a boy there are times he will want to hurt her back for having hurt him. You hear stories where he threws acid in her face or where they cut her nose off. They do not believe in Karma the way they do in the East. They do not think that the evil they do to others will come back on them. The Bible teaches that you will sow what you reap.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

If you love your enemy they would no longer be your enemy.

I wonder what the Jihadists in the Middle East think about that. Can we end the conflict by giving them hugs?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I wonder what the Jihadists in the Middle East think about that. Can we end the conflict by giving them hugs?

Why are so many people hung up on what other people think, when the love inside of you is for your benefit? Others can not and will not ever feel more of the effects of your love than you can.

 

[Jack of Spades]

My view on this one is very close to the popular medieval understanding of two levels of commands. Medieval way of seeing it was this: There are two paths, path of the righteous/believer, and the path of the perfection. Talking about perfection has bad sound to it nowadays, but that was the medieval phrase for it.

Commands like "love thy enemy", indeed mean what it says. To kindly love my enemy, as if he was my brother. But because it's not in human nature to love his enemy and because it can sometimes be very unpractical to do so (Jesus afterall got himself killed for not fighting back), that sort of commands are not meant for everyone. They're for those who want to take the path of perfection, and live by Gods will to the maximum.

It also has a purpose of being a humbling reminder for anyone who thinks they're doing job good living in will of God. If one truly is dead to the ways of the world, then there are no such things as enemies or friends, only creation of God, which deserves nothing but love. That's the goal, and nothing less will be living in harmony with will of God.

I'm not claiming I live that way. Far from it. But if someone does, I really admire them. I think watering it down to something like "don't torture your enemies as much as you would like to, but a bit less" is likely not something Jesus meant by it, given his example. He let himself be killed while praying for his executioners.