Lots

[gadar perets]

Not much is mentioned as to where Paul was during Yeshua's life. Could be he was an observer from the other side of the fence.

True, but he certainly was not one of those who "accompanied" the disciples throughout their walk with Yeshua. They were looking for someone that was on their side of the fence. Besides, Paul was not even converted yet when they chose Matthias. Paul was not an option for them.

 

[visionary]

True, but he certainly was not one of those who "accompanied" the disciples throughout their walk with Yeshua. They were looking for someone that was on their side of the fence. Besides, Paul was not even converted yet when they chose Matthias. Paul was not an option for them.

Bartholomew or Nicodemus..etc...etc what I am getting at is that their pick disappeared off the history books without anything to his credit other than the "lot" pick.

 

[Lulav]

I probably should have used "bore" or "used" instead of "wore". The point is, lots were used even in Aaron's day. They were not a later substitute for the Urim and Thummim.

It wouldn't change what you were saying. You seem to believe that they were two different things while I on the other hand believe in Aarons time and after that the Urim and Thummin were what was used to cast lots.

A few sage words.........

“The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD” (Proverbs 16:33).

This might shed some light on the subject, from the JE

The most important passage is I Sam. xiv. 41, where Wellhausen and Driver have corrected the text, on the basis of the Septuagint, to read as follows:

"And Saul said: Lord, God of Israel, why hast thou not answered thy servant this day? If this iniquity be in me or in Jonathan my son, Lord, God of Israel, give Urim; but if it be in thy people Israel, give Thummim. Then Jonathan and Saul were taken by lot; and the people escaped" ​

(Driver, "Notes on the Hebrew Text of the Books of Samuel," p. 89, Oxford, 1890; Budde, "The Books of Samuel," in Polychrome Bible, p. 63; H. P. Smith, "The Books of Samuel," p. 122; Kirkpatrick, "The First Book of Samuel," in "The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges," 1891, p. 137).

 

[AbbaLove]

Bartholomew or Nicodemus..etc...etc what I am getting at is that their pick disappeared off the history books without anything to his credit other than the "lot" pick.

One tradition says that Matthias 'evangelized' in Ethiopia, where he was martyred. Another says that Matthias traveled to Damascus and later died in Judea. A third tradition says that Matthias spent most of his time in Jerusalem, where he eventually died. Matthias, short for the name Mattathias, means “gift of Yahweh.”

Revelation 21:14
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[gadar perets]

Bartholomew or Nicodemus..etc...etc what I am getting at is that their pick disappeared off the history books without anything to his credit other than the "lot" pick.

Why does that matter? Even if true, it does not discredit the use of casting lots.

 

[Meowzltov]

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from YHWH.


Do you believe castings lots is an acceptable way to determine Yahweh's will in our day?

The two phrases in Proverbs 16:33 are contrasting, not complimentary. IOW a lot is just a random cast into the lap, but a deliberate decision is from YHWH.

If lots were effective ways of knowing God's will, then you would get the same answer every time you rolled, BUT YOU DON'T.

 

[gadar perets]

The two phrases in Proverbs 16:33 are contrasting, not complimentary. IOW a lot is just a random cast into the lap, but a deliberate decision is from YHWH.

I disagree. They are complimentary. YHWH gives His decision by causing the answer that matches His will to be cast.

If lots were effective ways of knowing God's will, then you would get the same answer every time you rolled, BUT YOU DON'T.

What do you mean, "BUT YOU DON'T"? Give me an example of that.

If it was such a haphazard, random chance, matter of luck, then the apostles would never have used it. Nor would Aaron or Moses.