Lost None or One?

[Godistruth1]

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:28 KJV

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:39 KJV

That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:9 KJV

Vs

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12 KJV

 

[HypnoToad]

Context matters. The first three verses are about one specific group of people: saved people; the last passage is about a completely different specific group of people: Jesus' disciples.

Apples & oranges.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:28 KJV

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:39 KJV

That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:9 KJV

Vs

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12 KJV

You forgot a verse:

John 6:70-71 New International Version (NIV)

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

 

[Godistruth1]

Context matters. The first three verses are about one specific group of people: saved people; the last passage is about a completely different specific group of people: Jesus' disciples.

Apples & oranges.

How is it different when Jesus is speaking in general? Of all disciples he said he will lose none and last verse says he lost one among his disciples.

 

[Godistruth1]

You forgot a verse:

John 6:70-71 New International Version (NIV)

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

Hey thanks. This adds up to the lost one claim of Bible!

 

[HypnoToad]

Of all disciples he said he will lose none

No, He wasn't talking about His disciples in that verse, He was talking about saved people.

 

[bcbsr]

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:28 KJV

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:39 KJV

That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:9 KJV

Vs

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12 KJV

First of all the New Covenant didn't come into effect until Acts chapter 2. I take it that Judas was never one given to Jesus by the Father. Concerning Judas, he says, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" John 6:70 I take it that Jesus chose him as a warning not to presume salvation by office.

 

[Godistruth1]

No, He wasn't talking about His disciples in that verse, He was talking about saved people.

This does not look like speaking about saved people in any way but this refers to disciples only

"those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition"

 

[HypnoToad]

This does not look like speaking about saved people in any way but this refers to disciples only

"those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition"

*THAT* verse is about His disciples. Ones like John 6 & 10 are NOT about His disciples, they are about saved people. "Those who are given to me" is about saved people - Judas was never a saved person, that's why he's excluded in John 17:12.

 

[Godistruth1]

*THAT* verse is about His disciples. Ones like John 6 & 10 are NOT about His disciples, they are about saved people. "Those who are given to me" is about saved people - Judas was never a saved person, that's why he's excluded in John 17:12.

Does this look like it's speaking about saved people or disciples

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing"

 

[HypnoToad]

Does this look like it's speaking about saved people or disciples

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing"

I've already answered that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

How is it different when Jesus is speaking in general? Of all disciples he said he will lose none and last verse says he lost one among his disciples.

Because the context in the first set of passages concerns all whom the Father will give Jesus, i.e. the elect, the saved, however you want to call it. The last refers only to the Twelve, which included Judas Iscariot.

An argument could be made that Judas was never truly part of the elect, thus is not included in the broader scope of the first three passages.

More importantly, however, most Christians simply don't concern themselves with this kind of nit-pickiness, because it's not how we read and use our Scriptures. Most Christians don't read the Bible the way Muslims read the Qur'an.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Barney2.0]

It would be good to ask yourself, was Judas Iscariot ever really an Apostle, no he was not. Although he was counted among the original twelve he was not a true Apostle so Christ in reality never lost anyone since Judas was never counted among the true Aposltes. And who says Judas cannot be saved? Did he not repent before his death?

 

[bling]

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:28 KJV

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:39 KJV

That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:9 KJV

Vs

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12 KJV

You bring up a good point, but you have to understand somethings are not being addressed in every promise.

Christ does not loss anyone (you can not blame Christ for those who are lost). This does not mean the person, themselves, cannot walk away from their own salvation, since they still have free will. Jesus is not kidnapping believers and holding them, but is protecting them and keep out others. Judas left of his own free will and could have returned repentant if he wanted to.

 

[mindlight]

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:28 KJV

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:39 KJV

That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:9 KJV

Vs

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12 KJV

Jesus chose Judas knowing that he would betray Him. He was in the team without ever being one of them

John 6:70-71
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

 

[Godistruth1]

Jesus chose Judas knowing that he would betray Him. He was in the team without ever being one of them

John 6:70-71
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

It was decree of lord that he would lose none. It was impossible to lose anyone. Yet Jesus lost one despite the decree of God!

 

[mindlight]

It was decree of lord that he would lose none. It was impossible to lose anyone. Yet Jesus lost one despite the decree of God!

It is clear what Jesus meant and what he knew. Your just playing language games here.

 

[Godistruth1]

It is clear what Jesus meant and what he knew. Your just playing language games here.

Yes its clear. There is no language game. Jesus said its degree of lord he will lose none but despite that he lost one.