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Lost cause

Puffinstuff

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[QUOTEI think you're right, though. First and foremost we need professional help, I need a wider support group, and a MFT program would put an end to some of the negative influences from her past one way or another. Between these 3 things I think things will improve. Thank you.
][/QUOTE]

What about you? You and you alone?
 
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Puffinstuff

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Well I need both support and a gut-check. A support group would provide that, and at a deeper level, a marital counselor. Is that what you mean?

What do you need is what I mean? In the pit of your stomach what ales you ?

I "think" you want to join the military fail or succeed that is what you want.And you want a "woman" (your wife) to back you in that venture.That is what I think you want.
 
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Rora47

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What do you need is what I mean? In the pit of your stomach what ales you ?

I "think" you want to join the military fail or succeed that is what you want.And you want a "woman" (your wife) to back you in that venture.That is what I think you want.

You know, I've let go of that dream and I'm sorry it was not more clear, the details get washed out here. Currently the plan is to become a mechanic in Canada. There is nothing wrong with the military and I still find it appealing, and those who sacrifice should be honored, but I feel somewhat like this:

At this, the guardian-redeemer said, "Then I cannot redeem it because I might endanger my own estate. You redeem it yourself. I cannot do it." (Ruth 4:6)

It seems at this point, the military would only protect me from my wife, it wouldn't necessarily protect our marriage together. Because it would endanger that more than anything, I cannot do it and I've been lucky enough to come to terms with that fact.
 
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Hetta

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the military would only protect me from my wife
What, you think they will shoot her if she gets on your nerves? LOL. The military does not encourage spouses to "use" service to escape their marriage. The military rather encourages strong marriages. Nobody should use military service as a "get out of marriage free" card. Given your attitude, it's just as well you didn't go in.
 
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Puffinstuff

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What, you think they will shoot her if she gets on your nerves? LOL. The military does not encourage spouses to "use" service to escape their marriage. The military rather encourages strong marriages. Nobody should use military service as a "get out of marriage free" card. Given your attitude, it's just as well you didn't go in.

:thumbsup:
 
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Puffinstuff

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It seems at this point, the military would only protect me from my wife, it wouldn't necessarily protect our marriage together. Because it would endanger that more than anything, I cannot do it and I've been lucky enough to come to terms with that fact.

You are looking for an occupation to "protect you " from" your wife.

I think that is key.
 
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Audiomechanic

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You sound as though you hate her. Do you think she doesn't notice this?

Interesting that you thought that when reading his posts. I picked up on the opposite. That he's tired of being beat up for his whole marriage and his wife not respecting him. I don't see him hating her at all. I see a damaging behavior pattern on her part (likely learned from childhood from her family).

Especially in light of:

When we first met she would blame/badmouth me to her family so I think that is where the behavior comes from. I did my best to compliment her good traits... now she uses that as ammunition any time we disagree "remember you said". She finds examples of other people doing things she thinks I should do, then builds an emotional legal case, starring me as the villain. I mean, it's the whole 9 yards.
 
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Rora47

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Out of the blue tonight, she apologized for how 'hard and unfair' she's been, and said I was the 'most important person in her life'. I was surprised... and what's really surprising is I can tell she meant it... made me get teary eyed. Guess we're not such a lost cause after all.

If anyone here was praying, I appreciate it. I think we should still go to counseling and I will be getting into a support group too.
 
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Audiomechanic

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Out of the blue tonight, she apologized for how 'hard and unfair' she's been, and said I was the 'most important person in her life'. I was surprised... and what's really surprising is I can tell she meant it... made me get teary eyed. Guess we're not such a lost cause after all.

If anyone here was praying, I appreciate it. I think we should still go to counseling and I will be getting into a support group too.

:thumbsup: :clap:
 
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Hetta

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Interesting that you thought that when reading his posts. I picked up on the opposite. That he's tired of being beat up for his whole marriage and his wife not respecting him. I don't see him hating her at all. I see a damaging behavior pattern on her part (likely learned from childhood from her family).

Especially in light of:
We don't know both sides of the story - only his. And yes, I see a lot of resentment and bitterness.
 
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Audiomechanic

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We don't know both sides of the story - only his. And yes, I see a lot of resentment and bitterness.

You're right, we only have his side of the story. But, I'd be pretty bitter and frustrated too if my wife gave me verbal beatings, complained about me to her family, belittled me and otherwise made marriage very difficult.
 
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Hetta

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You're right, we only have his side of the story. But, I'd be pretty bitter and frustrated too if my wife gave me verbal beatings, complained about me to her family, belittled me and otherwise made marriage very difficult.
And again, that's his side of the story. It would be nice to hear hers. If you like to see his views on submission, they are on another thread. That is probably the basis to many of their marital problems, if he is trying to force 'obedience' out of this woman.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Honestly, this situation looks like it's so full of mutual resentment that the answer really is just to go to counseling. I think there is a little more to the story we're not getting and both ends need to come out in some sort of structured counseling situation. It's obvious she thinks you don't listen to her and badger her (which, she has a point... In the military issue, I think she pretty clear she was against it... Yet you bring it up repeatedly in hopes of a different response, and blame her when she doesn't give you that different response), which, ironically, is what you think she does to you.

I'm sorry, maybe it's just me, but bells go off when I hear you got so angry at her that you were actively destructive, but we kind of glide over that huge, huge, huge lapse in judgment and red flag that it raises to continue to fixate on all she does to irritate you (and how it pushed you to do it in the first place)... I mean, a healthy dynamic isn't "I acted abhorantly, but if she'd just done what I wanted her to do, it wouldn't have happened." Healthy dynamics, even in arguments, isn't saying your bad behavior is the fault of the person who provoked you. On the occasions my husband and I disagree, we provoke eachother, we realize we do it, and we try to overcome it to find a solution. If we provoked eachother and provoked back, then blamed eachother for the behavior... Of course our marriage wouldn't be healthy.
 
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Inkachu

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Here is a link to background information that might help:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7727841/

WHY did you marry this woman...?

She is not just stubborn, she has serious issues that prevent her from relating and communicating in a healthy, mature way. This goes beyond a simple personality quirk, this is serious.

Counseling. ASAP.
 
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LinkH

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Rora47,

If she snaps at you, insults you, and tries to control you, maybe you can try to figure out if there is a way you can react to her verbal attacks that can shut it down. Btw, when you were first dating, were there ever times when she was on her 'best behavior.' Usually, during that time people treat each other nicely. We have a guard up when we don't know someone as well. If she did then, though, she is capable of showing some self-control.

Does she get emotional and yell or scream? Or is it just the content of what she says? Does her snapping at you fall short of yelling, but she says it with an inappropriate tone of voice (angry, bossy, etc.) I can think of a few approaches to take.

If you both are on-board with the same view of what husbands and wives roles are according to scripture, that can really help. The Bible says the wife is to respect her husband. That is also translated reverence. The Greek word refers to 'fear' and we are to 'fear' God and 'fear' rulers. And the wife is supposed to have this kind of 'fear' of her husband. I don't believe that's talking about being in fear of her life and safety, but a kind of reverence. (I remember a Sunday school conversation when all us kids were confused about why we should 'fear' God. :) )

Anyway, if she calls you bad names, yells at you, etc., one thing you can do is not address what she said, but address her manner of communication in a calm voice. "Honey, I see you standing there with your hand on your hip and the other finger pointed at me. You are raising your voice at me and calling me names. That is not the way a wife is supposed to talk to your husband. The Bible says you are to treat me with reverence or respect, and the way you are talking is disrespectful." If you've discussed beforehand how to treat each other and you are both on-board with the same concept of marriage Biblically, maybe it will work. If a part of her wants you to join in the argument, you sidestep that and address the problematic behavior. It might work, especially if she is not very, very angry. There are no guarantees. What you do needs to be customized to how she is, and she may react differently to this based on her moods.

In the same scenario, you could also address the content of what she says, maybe refer to the passage that talks about name-calling (thou fool, and raca were the examples there in Matthew 5.)

If she backs down and apologizes, then you can pray about it with her right then. Make sure you forgive her and don't keep a ledger of how bad she has been behaving. If she's constantly trying to improve and she's seeking God's help, that's a good thing.

Otherwise, especially if she's yelling or just calling names, you can tell her when she starts that she can talk to you when she learns to communicate in a calm, mature manner. When she calms down or when she can stop the name calling, she can come tell you what she wants. Then you can disengage. If she follows you, leave the room. If that doesn't work, you can leave the house for a little while and come back a little while later. If she gets some emotional satisfaction out of arguing and speaking her mind, this may take away whatever kind of enjoyment or relief she gets from yelling or name calling, leaving her unfulfilled in her inappropriate behavior, and motivating her to fulfill her desire to communicate in a more reasonable way.
 
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Rora47

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Yes, I have done that. I am very careful not to give her anything that would justify her feelings of being the victim... instead I address the root issue/attitude and try not to personalize it, instead pointing to the things in her past and how she needs to let go of those things.

Making things harder is that her attitude is pervasive and it's always tempting to me to side with her in the same behavior of feeling like a victim and stop making an effort to obey God. It seems like several times a day I have the temptation to develop a martyr complex forced in my face and take the easy way out. So it's not purely about her issues, it's that I am faced with my own attitude towards the long-suffering issues we've had while still dealing with them.

The time that I have lost my self control were times when I truly felt between a rock and a hard place--I either was going to give in to her, or give in to my own version of her behavior, either of which would have easily lead to emotional separation since it's the type of behavior that causes one to rebel and separate from wise influences and nurture pain, bitterness, and the false sense of protection that comes with a hard heart. Since neither was acceptable, I was basically freaking out because at the same time I myself was isolated in a foreign country with no support system and wondering how I was going to endure this for the rest of my life (since after a couple years there was no progress).


The main challenge is that in those cases where, in my experience, most people could be reasoned with, she would often instead blame-shift yet again and change the subject to something completely different in the process. It's sort of like when you played games as a kid, and one kid would be changing the rules every minute so they were always the winner. She would harbor the notion that any form of accountability on her part was 'pushing me down', 'attacking me', 'suffocating the spirit in me' (her words). I have since learned not to dignify her changes in subject with a response and instead stay focused on the real issue, that way we could eventually reach the plateau of mutual accountability we need to start from.


Currently:
In just the last half week or so, this behavior has changed, though. Just yesterday I brought something up and instead of blame-shifting or subject changing, she listened to what I had to say and apologized. It truly was a first in our relationship. I hope from here we can develop trust and she can learn to trust someone she is close to.

At this point I will probably pursue counseling for us anyways because there is still the root issue of projecting selfishness and a lack of objectivity onto me, and we may need an experienced 3rd party/counselor to untangle that just because of the nature of it. Overall, though, she seems to be doing better, more upbeat, less exhausted, etc. I appreciate everyone's responses and prayers.
 
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