Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline

[lismore]

You may as well join the moose lodge or some dance club.

Interesting post. Just one Q, what's the moose lodge?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Interesting post. Just one Q, what's the moose lodge?

Perhaps it is a thing of the past. There used to be the moose lodge, the elks, the fraternal order of something or other. Basically social clubs where generally older people came together to associate, dance, eat etc. Sometimes it was to help you get ahead in your business organization.

Loyal Order of Moose - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lismore]

Perhaps it is a thing of the past. There used to be the moose lodge, the elks, the fraternal order of something or other. Basically social clubs where generally older people came together to associate, dance, eat etc. Sometimes it was to help you get ahead in your business organization.

Loyal Order of Moose - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks! I guess the nearest thing we have in Scotland might be a Masonic Lodge or an Orange Lodge.
God Bless

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

I'll suggest that many of the statements so far do apply...and this one too: quasichristian nationalist religion, is finally being weakened profoundly in the U.S., after four hundred years of domination.

When the Father brought knowledge of the Son to me in 1996, and for some years just after, I sent about 3,000 emails to email lists who proclaimed Christian leadership. I asked questions, received answers that did not fit the things we have that the Lord Jesus has said, and persisted. Eventually, quiet folks usually quashed did speak up in agreement with His Word on the subjects. But I could find no one in public church-leadership who were able to stand in these things. Always there was the prevarication, the subservience, to quasichristian nationalism, or perhaps more accurately, national quasichristianism, where people suggest that a nation of this world can be made to be of Christ.

But 1996 was 1996, and today in 2023, I find the Lord is driving differently. National quasichristianists recently marched...and exposed themselves for what they were. There are still churches which push that, but there are far, far more people today who understand, than there was. And quasichristian nationalist churches are demoralized and closing, and I will call this a good thing.

 

[mindlight]

Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline

As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year – probably accelerated by Covid

www.yahoo.com

I'm sure this is nothing new to many of you but their claim of thousands a year seems a bit exaggerated but they are spot on the money with younger generations just not even bothering with attending and it seems to be having quite an effect. Will those laws in the USA pursuaded by Christianity all fall in the coming years as the old timers die off in the government? I seem to think it will happen. Disturbing trends are spreading across the country. Ministry has long since been seen as a global outreach program but I feel they need to look closer inside our borders now too as so many walk away or turn the other shoulder in these "minister's" own backyards.

Married, educated, and successful people are more likely to attend church in the USA while losers are not. A key factor is a father's faith, children are more likely to attend when he is right with God than when the mother is. The trends indicate a tendency to individualism and marriage breakup being key factors in the development of godless lifestyles. But the godless also kill their babies and are statistically more likely to have smaller families and so in the long run they are more likely to die out completely.

 

[FireDragon76]

People aren't even getting connected with churches, because they don't know they exist anymore. Conservative Evangelicalism's involvement in politics, support of religious fundamentalism, and shallow moralisms has lead to a stigmatization of Christianity among the young in general, so young people simply don't bother.

Pastors aren't reaching out effectively because they don't realize there is a need, and they don't necessarily know how to present their religion as a viable option. Or they are hamstrung by church structures of governance that limit the theological and pastoral imagination of their communities.

I have been trying to find a way to get local pastors to look into John Vervaeke's research on what he calls "The Meaning Crisis". Vervaeke is a cognitive scientist at the University of Toronto. He spends alot of his time now days in dialog with religious leaders, to see if it is possible for Christian churches to move away from the western model of religions as propositions (which is dying in our culture right now), towards religion based on participatory ontology (like real sacramentology), shared community rituals and embodied practices, and a commitment to actual personal transformation (as opposed to egocentric models of "getting to heaven when you die" or the "Prosperity Gospel"). Some churches like Episcopalians, UCC, or Lutherans have resources for this, potentially, but most are stuck treating postmodernity as a purely political problem, when in reality it is existential and metaphysical. It would involve a more mystical and sacramental approach to religion.

 

[FireDragon76]

Conformity to worldly standards does not build a strong and growing church. The first time a "socially acceptable" church runs into a little opposition or persecution, the less committed members run for the hills: or maybe a more "moderate to liberal" congregation where they are more comfortable. The more "liberal to moderate" a church becomes, that is the more "socially relevant and conforming" it is, the less Christian it becomes. You may as well join the moose lodge or some dance club.

Young, educated people aren't looking for religious zealotry and fundamentalism. Their worlds are too complicated and pluralistic for that to be credible. They don't know what they are looking for, but it's definitely not that.

John Vervaeke has some beautiful stuff to say about agape and how it can be transformative. Maybe Christians should put some actual faith in love, and not trying to drum in "old time religion", which people in North America increasingly find tired and lacking.

Christianity is radical. It has "new creatures" that hold to values that do not match cultural standards (watch the current news).

Jesus accepted all kinds of people that wouldn't be accepted in many churches today.

I suspect the AoG is growing because Christians are leaving other less dedicated congregations to get with the genuine thing. All Pentecostal Churches benefit in the long run because they do not step back from their stance on Holiness, the true Gospel, the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. Also the gospel fact that healing is included in the atonement. This is something that many churches have stepped away from.

AOG is growing but Christianity as a whole is declining in North America. It's not reasonable to expect Pentecostalism can make up for the decline.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

A nonstop Kentucky prayer 'revival' is going viral on TikTok, and people are traveling thousands of miles to take part

 

[FireDragon76]

A nonstop Kentucky prayer 'revival' is going viral on TikTok, and people are traveling thousands of miles to take part

That's Kentucky. Let me know when a revival happens in New York City.

Somehow I doubt revivalism can save Evangelicalism. Young people are very familiar with flash mobs and how they work.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

That's Kentucky. Let me know when a revival happens in New York City.

Somehow I doubt revivalism can save Evangelicalism. Young people are very familiar with flash mobs and how they work.

Well, Christianity has been around for over 2000 year and it will still be here long after New York has fallen into the sea.
I put my money on God, faith, love, and the Spirit of God.

 

[FireDragon76]

Well, Christianity has been around for over 2000 year and it will still be here long after New York has fallen into the sea.

That reminds me of a poem by P.B. Shelley, Ozymandias, about the ruins of a once great empire, with an inscription on a statue:

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

Zoroastrianism has been around for nearly 3,000 years, even longer than Christianity. It was once the state religion of the Persian empire, a great religion with a great prophet, Zarathustra, whose teachings many historians say changed the world. And now there are fewer than 120,000 practitioners worldwide now, to the point it is considered an endangered religion, about to go the way of Ozymandias' boast.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You have to understand the difference between churchianity and Christianity.
Christianity ain't going nowhere but up.

 

[Lost Witness]

Zoroastrianism has been around for nearly 3,000 years, and there are fewer than 100,000 practitioners worldwide now. There are no guarantees, just because something is old, that it will survive

it's a religion it'll die, they all do.
Christianity, True Christianity is a relationship with Eternity. (The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit)
The LORD is that eternity, he'll never fade away or cease to be
these denominations, and other worldly constructs will cease to be but the LORD and his word...
Will NEVER cease to be

 

[SavedByGrace3]

That reminds me of a poem by P.B. Shelley, Ozymandias, about the ruins of a once great empire, with an inscription on a statue:



Zoroastrianism has been around for nearly 3,000 years, even longer than Christianity. It was once the state religion of the Persian empire, a great religion with a great prophet, Zarathustra, whose teachings many historians say changed the world. And now there are fewer than 120,000 practitioners worldwide now, to the point it is considered an endangered religion, about to go the way of Ozymandias' boast.

But we have a secret weapon... maybe not so secret.

Matthew 16:17-18 KJV
17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[FireDragon76]

You have to understand the difference between churchianity and Christianity.
Christianity ain't going nowhere but up.

Christianity won't survive without institutions to support it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Christianity won't survive without institutions to support it.

Communist countries have outlawed these institutions and killed the followers... even today in China. Yet the faith continues.
The BBC says there are more Christians in China than communist party members. All in underground churches.

Why many Christians in China have turned to underground churches

As the Chinese government tightens its control on the church, many Christians have joined unofficial "home" churches, as the BBC's John Sudworth explains.

www.bbc.com

 

[FireDragon76]

Communist countries have outlawed these institutions and killed the followers... even today in China. Yet the faith continues.
The BBC says there are more Christians in China than communist party members. All in underground churches.

Why many Christians in China have turned to underground churches

As the Chinese government tightens its control on the church, many Christians have joined unofficial "home" churches, as the BBC's John Sudworth explains.

www.bbc.com

In China, some churches actually get quiet support from local Communist party officials.

If and when Christianity is a few lone cranks in a town with their Bibles, they aren't going to be passing down any kind of coherent, identifiable religion. Without community, Christianity quickly descends into individual, idiosyncratic spiritual beliefs and practices. It has happened before, like the Kukure Christians in Japan, or some of the cults of China or Korea.

 

[FireDragon76]

If I had to guess, it’s the combination of moderate levels of pentecostal hooplah, moderate levels of prosperity theology, and moderately hip aesthetic that’ve kept their numbers up.

I looked at the graphs and I'm not impressed for being some kind of theological argument for Fundamentalist or Pentecostal churches. That kind of slow, steady growth could simply be due to higher birthrates of it's membership, many of whom are not white.

I don't see a religion like the Assemblies of God breaking into the mainstream in the near future, which explains why it's only had slow growth. Some liberal mainline churches after WWII had explosive growth, in comparison.

It seems to me the real question is how can we get younger people involved in liberal or progressive churches, since historically those are the most likely to attract a large number of people who are unchurched, at least in the last century.

 

[rturner76]

I think the modern world doesn't like to be told what to do or follow anybody's rules but their own Some of us grew up in church but fewer and fewer people are taking their kids to church or the kids refuse or make such a fuss about it parents leave them at home. So every generation since before 1900 has had less to do with the church. Now with science and computers providing everyone's answers, people look less and less at religion or they go for yoga or Buddhism but more often Atheism. We are letting go of God and he will punish us for it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I looked at the graphs and I'm not impressed for being some kind of theological argument for Fundamentalist or Pentecostal churches. That kind of slow, steady growth could simply be due to higher birthrates of it's membership, many of whom are not white.

I don't see a religion like the Assemblies of God breaking into the mainstream in the near future, which explains why it's only had slow growth. Some liberal mainline churches after WWII had explosive growth, in comparison.

Perhaps we are talking about a different Assemblies of God?
Of course research on Google returns wildly contradictory results, but these are a few from what I feel are reputable sources. It seems the AOG is as big or bigger than many of the older congregations. Of course we pray for the success of all. I was born and raised Episcopalian... and have seriously considered returning as I get older. Feels like "home" .

AOG:
"The Assemblies of God was founded in 1914. Today there are close to 13,000 churches in the U.S. with nearly 3 million members and adherents.
There are more than 69 million Assemblies of God members worldwide, making the Assemblies of God the world's largest Pentecostal denomination."
"The Assemblies of God (USA) experienced its 27th consecutive year of growth in 2016, with 3.24 million adherents and 2 million in major worship service attendance. In 2016, the AG saw an all-time high of new church plants and water baptisms and a 16 percent increase in Spirit baptisms. A new AG church is planted in the U.S. every 21 hours."

For comparison:
Lutherans:
"The ELCA (Lutheran) was officially formed on January 1, 1988, by the merging of three Lutheran church bodies. As of 2021, it has approximately 3.04 million baptized members in 8,724 congregations."
And they are shrinking:
Will the ELCA be Gone in 30 Years?

"The LWF (Lutheran World Federation) now has 149 member church bodies in 99 countries representing over 77 million Lutherans; as of 2022, it is the sixth-largest Christian communion."