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Why thank you, however, I will refrain from basking in my achieved salvation until such time as I've actually completed the race. And what is this "Reformation" you speak of?
I will agree that there are examples within Scripture that when taken out of the context of the entirety of Revelation (Scriptural or otherwise) can lead to that understanding.
I personally found in the belief that one could lose their salvation (yes, I once held this position because I was TAUGHT it 'by men' in fancy robes) was that I could somehow gain or earn it back again, when that is in fact quite ridiculous.
Eternal LIFE is a GIFT from God that CANNOT be EARNED or RETURNED.
s
I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.
I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.
Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?
You know, a moment before I read your note, I was sitting here wondering to myself why the assurance of God's gift stirs such resentment among people. All that's necessary is to say that the Bible teaches that salvation can't be lost, so don't spend your life worrying if that good deed is good enough, how many of them do I need to please him, is this one going to offset all those bad things I did, what if I sin a moment before death?" etc. and it comes down on you like a ton of angry bricks.
"NO, I want to live in constant uncertainty!" "I am on my own!" "Sure, God can remove himself from me for doing what he knew all along I was gong to do!" and so on. I've heard it all. You'd think that people would be uplifted and reassured by the knowledge of what Our Lord did for us on the Cross such that gratitude would be always #1 in their lives. But it's as though the natural human resents the idea that God does for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
Well, you can never lose an argument if you stick to those guns. Just say that everything that goes against your thesis is "taken out of context." Showing where it might actually have been taken out of context, if indeed that is the case, is sometimes attempted, however.
I don't believe in the theology of "Once saved, always saved" because it leaves too much room for people to take things for granted and to be mean and unkind thinking that they can be because they are saved.
I just post on these forums for interesting discussion. Rarely if ever do I look at it from the perspective of winning or losing an argument. Now, in my experience on these forums and elsewhere, all I've seen from proponents of OSAS is one-liners or the "well if God would do anything else it's not a god I would worship". Sorry but if those folks want to propose a doctrine that goes against 2000 years of Christian teaching, well they're gonna have to come up with something substantial.
Your example is why it's dangerous to believe in the man-made doctrine of OSAS. Salvation is a journey. You make a commitment daily to believe and follow Christ. Just like you make a commitment to stay married daily. There are times in everyone's life, I believe, where we have times of spiritual drought, or doubts, or struggles/hardships. This is "normal," as a part of working out our salvation, as St. Paul says. We just have to continue down that well-trodden path...follow those righteous before us that finished the race and were crowned by God.
I don't believe God was angry with you. God is always there to welcome you with open arms. He is like the father in the story of the Prodigal son. God is love...and this love is so incomprehensible to our human minds. Just know that He always loves us, no matter what, and to show our love for Him, we follow Him and his Commandments and live the best we can, every day, moving ultimately closer to Him. God bless.
I just want to add to the parable of the Prodigal Son, that when the son wanted to leave, the father let him go even though it broke his heart to do it. He didn't force his son to stay. God will not force us to stay either.
I just want to add to the parable of the Prodigal Son, that when the son wanted to leave, the father let him go even though it broke his heart to do it. He didn't force his son to stay.
God will not force us to stay either.
People can decide they don't want to stay with God for a variety of reasons, such a tragedy happening resulting in disillusion and anger with God. Because God loves us, He will allow us to leave Him--
However, He will not give up on trying to get you to come home to Him and He will be watching and waiting for you to come home.
I like this lighthouse it made me smile with the hope of the coming Spring. thank you. (ETA got a giggle out of the irony of my old signature too. hehe)Faith, like many things have seasons and when we are in winter we feel desolate, but winter doesn't mean death, for spring is approaching.
I am glad that you are turning back to the Lord.
It is actually good that you feel like you know nothing.
Because really, we know nothing.
Now you must rely on the Lord and not on your self.
And He is still there and He has not forsaken you.
When you turned away from the Lord, you lost your enjoyment of Him.
But, He did not leave you.
I suggest that you pray and read the Bible and sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs (and listen to them as well) and gather together with other Christians with whom you can pray and sing and read the Bible and enjoy the Lord.
If you don't have other Christians who you can enjoy the Lord with right not, pray that He will bring you to some companions in Christ.
It is not a matter or OSAS or not. That is just theology and words and winds up being junk that people argue over. All that arguing about who is right about God does not save anyone. Nor does it give Life to anyone.
What gives us Life is Christ Himself. And we enjoy Him by calling upon His name, reading His word, enjoying His presence with other Christians, praying, and singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.
You won't get your joy in Christ back by participating in an online arguement about OSAS. So don't worry about that.
Just pray and turn your heart to the Lord and you will not only regain the joy that you had in the Lord in the past, but you will surpass that joy now since you must rely on Him to be your joy.
I am praying for you that you will once again enjoy the Lord.
I wish it were that easy for me to believe, but knowing that I turned away from him and it was by my power, my freewill that he gave me it is harder to believe. Someone once told me a long time ago that we are never to base our relationship on God on feelings, but that is part of what is getting me I think...I don't feel him like I once did in fact I feel his dislike of me sometimes..I hope that is just my own head messing with me, but it does make it more difficult to believe that I am still in his favor that he still wants me.I don't believe it is possible to lose salvation:
John 10:28-30 (New International Version)
28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."
Sounds to me like once you're in...you're in.
CC
Thank youWelcome back
God isn't angry with you. Read the story of the prodigal son and you will see how God feels about you returning to Him. There is nothing you could ever do to lose your salvation. Those who are in Christ are sealed by the Holy Spirit forever. You can wander away and remove yourself from the will of God, but you cannot lose your salvation.
John 1:12,13
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
How do we know he is fighting on our behalf or has handed us over? I really want to believe he is fighting for me..Our Father in heaven NEVER stops loving us. We are His children even when we falter or doubt...
Think of Peter and the other disciples who sat at Jesus feet... and yet at that very hour, our beloved Peter denied the Lord 3 times and He was still loved and forgiven. My friend... my sister in Christ... God loves you. He has always been there with you... throughout your heartache and pain and suffering, throughout your struggle to believe due to your heartache and pain. God understands these things and He has and will continue to reach out to you because He loves you.
To answer your question, salvation is precious and it doesn't happen with one decision, it happens over a life time of living and making mistakes and still finding a way, even with doubt, to turn to Him and be open to Him and know intellectually that He is still there for you and loves you.
God understands our struggles and our humanity. It's a daily dying to sin and a daily learning and re-learning... growing and falling... and getting right back up again... fighting to get back to Christ and at our most hurting moment... Christ does step in and He fights on our behalf...
It sure does complicate things not being able to forgive myself...it's hard to have a relationship with someone when you feel guilt ridden everytime you are near them and not good enough.I don't believe in the theology of "Once saved, always saved" because it leaves too much room for people to take things for granted and to be mean and unkind thinking that they can be because they are saved.
I believe that we daily know that Christ loves us and that we do our best to sincerely live a Christlike life. That being said, if we are struggling and at the same time trying and with God's grace and the help of the Holy Spirit, we can have faith and trust that we can have the hope of salvation.
It's a daily sacrifice... and learning and growing, but don't be discourage... in Christ, that is where our hope begins and in faith, that is where our growing continues.
And we are truly loved by God... and He understands and does forgive... the hard part for me, is forgiving myself.
You know... I'm here for you and I hope you write to me via pm or maybe we can talk on the phone. It would be good for both of us.
God's peace,
Debbie
I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.
I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.
Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?
I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.
I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.
Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?
There are so many good posts in this thread that really give me some hope either way osas or not if I can daily be with the Lord again that is what I want and hope for so maybe OSAS is true but living like it's not is better for your relationship with God.
This meant alot to me. I hope this is right.If He was not with you then you would not even care.For He has put His desires in your heart.. He is drawing you back to Him as He promised He would. He will never leave you nor will He ever forsake you.. If He would have turned you over you would not be here to desire to be back with Him. He has had you in the palm of His hand the whole time. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.. Start putting His truth into your very being and He is one you can believe.. He is faithful even when we are not..
Thank you Suzy, brought tears to my eyes hon.So great to see this! I wanted to share with you this song, its my new favorite song, but it really touches on what you're talking about and I hope that you like it.
.
There are many of us who have gone down the same path for different reasons, but when Christ has trully been in our hearts once and for all He never leaves us, we are the ones that walk away from the relationship.
But God never gives up on us, just as the parable of the prodigal son, God
awaits our return with open arms.
It is so strange, I know these Scriptures...but even if I read the Bible or remember them myself it doesn't seem real until I know that you all believe them for me...I know that sounds weird, but thank you. I think it is definitely a sign that I need to try church again and see what happens though..Salvation is of the Lord not from us. Jonah summarized the soteriology of scripture well " Salvation is of the Lord"(Jonah 2:9). Salvation does not derive from our strength but from the Lord's will. The saved are "children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God" (John 1:13). Paul said "it does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy" (Rom. 9:16).
Salvation was completed by Christ. "It is finished" (John 19:30). Anticipating His sacrifice, Jesus said, 'I have finished the work which you have given Me to do" (John 7:14). The writer of Hebrews writes, "By one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy" (Heb. 10:14). From God's perspective, the work of the Cross is an accomplished fact from all eternity (Rev, 13:8, Eph. 1:4). This means that in God's eyes, in the eyes of Him who sees with infallible foreknowledge, all our sins (past, present, and future) were already covered before we were born.
Salvation is an irrevocable gift. Paul says in Romans 11:29 that "God's gifts and His call are irrevocable" and Paul also says that salvation is "the gift of God" (Rom. 6:23, Eph. 2:9). Hence, God can never overturn salvation since He is bound by His own unconditional covenant to be faithful even if we are faithless (2 Tim. 2:13).
Salvation can not be gained or lost by our own good works. We know that salvation can not be gained by good works, "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal of His Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). If salvation is not gained by our works then it can not be lost by our own works.
It's good to see you HenSweety, we rejoice with you that you have returned to the Lord just as the prodigal son returned to his father (Luke 15:11-31). So we clothe you with the best robe, we put a ring on your hand, we make a feast for you, and we eat and be merry.
If He was not with you then you would not even care.For He has put His desires in your heart.. He is drawing you back to Him as He promised He would. He will never leave you nor will He ever forsake you.. If He would have turned you over you would not be here to desire to be back with Him. He has had you in the palm of His hand the whole time.
This meant alot to me. I hope this is right.
not necessarilyquote=erythro; you can break a covenant
not to you, obviously, but the new definition of "Israel" - the ones supposedly chosen for salvation - became spiritual, not blood, tribe, or nation bound. So a New Testament was necessitated. The kind that cannot be broken by one of the parties - a covenant based on mercy, not ordinance.and to your point that there is no recorded case of someone losing their salvation: the new testament was written by jews who had a very GOOD understanding of covenant, so the fact you can break your covenant with God did not need to be obviously stated
There's a red flag...I would also like to point out there is no verse which clearly says
Why don't you see them?that a person who was once a believer will never be able to break that covenant and lose their salvation.
As clearly others about eternal security have been.There are, however, many verses talking about God's undying love or his powerful protection, which can be misinterpreted.
Well, now it sounds like 'safe to sin' - just like the accusation being made about OSAS.By the way, I don't think there is no hope of regaining a lost salvation - praise God!
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