Losing salvation vs. once saved always saved

[Super Gnat]

I'd also add to reassure you that by your very act of asking about your sin and wanting to be right with God, you have not yet turned your back on God, so by that fact you haven't "lost" your salvation. He's tugging at your heart which is why you may be troubled by it so you haven't ignored him yet. Just go to him and tell him the conflict you're having.

I cosign this completely. While I do believe it's OSAS, I'm willing to admit I could be wrong about that--but either way, if it's possible, it's only through throwing yourself so far away from God that there's no way to come back, and if you really did that, you wouldn't care about going to heaven or what God thinks about you. If you're worried about it, it means it hasn't happened.

 

[BustedFlat]

Personally, I believe that one can lose his or her salvation. The line at which salvation is lost? I don't know. Personally, I don't really care to know. It's like if I were married. Perhaps my wife would stay with me if I cheated on her, but rather than figure how terrible I would have to be to her before she'd leave me, I'd rather figure out ways to love her better and figure out why I do things that hurt her (just as one should figure out why one seeks to hurt God by sinning against Him, my reason is usually resentment).

If I could do something to lose my salvation that means it is based on my works. Is that what you are attempting to say? Being saved, my goal should be to Glorify His Name, to become a rightful representation of Him. But I am saved by grace, and remain saved due to that grace.


In Jesus


BustedFlat

 

[Merciel]

If I could do something to loose my salvation that means it is based on my works. Is that what you are attempting to say? Being saved, my goal should be to Glorify His Name, to become a rightful representation of Him. But I am saved by Grace, and remain saved due to that Grace.


In Jesus


BustedFlat

Well, you do have to do something to gain your salvation in the first place (i.e. believe and repent), right? Does that make it a works-based salvation?

 

[BustedFlat]

Well, you do have to do something to gain your salvation in the first place (i.e. believe and repent), right? Does that make it a works-based salvation?

2Ti 1:9Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,




Would look as though our salvation came first, “ before the world began”. Believe, repent, confess are all after effects of the Lords Calling.
<edit> Understand that there is no works in salvation, only in accepting the gift that is given. Everyone has been given the gift , EVERYONE! Not all will accept it but the gift has been given and will not be rescinded. So no we do not have to do anything to get salvation.

</edit>

In Jesus


BustedFlat

 

[cavell]

We keep debating this old chestnut. Forgive me dear ones when I say, we are saved as long as we stay saved.

If we do not stay saved, then we are no longer saved.

Being human we excuse our shortcomings and backslidings as best we can. Thankfully for us all, God is merciful....slow to anger and plentious in mercy

Falling short....we cast ourselves upon His mercy

I am reading a book by Choo Thomas, a Korean American. The book is entitled 'Heaven is so Real'

This subject is dealt with

www.choothomas.com

 

[Cris413]

Can those of you who do not believe once saved...always saved please show me the Scripture that supports this?

I believe it's all level ground at the Cross. There is no measure of sin. Sin is sin in God's eyes.

I believe the consequences of certain sins in our lives are greater than others. Jesus died for ALL sin.

I believe to consider that we can lose our salvation is to consider God is a fickle God. You accept Jesus...you're in. Well...you walked away from Me...you're out. Now you've repented...you're back in. Ooops...that's a pretty big sin and you've committed it several times...you're back out. Whew...I'm so glad you repented...you're back in. This to me is just crazy thinking.

I will not even consider this concept of our loving Father and I think it demeans the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household."

Romans 8:1-3 There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh

2 Corinthians 1:21,22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption

Ephesians 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of his glory

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

God bless

 

[MarkEvan]

26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10

IMO these verses more than any others, irrefutably state that one can fall away from the faith which they once held. Firstly what does verse 26 mean when it says "after having recieved the knowledge of the truth," does it mean simply that if someone recieves the good news and rejects it and willfully continues in that sin, that for these there is no sacrifice for sins? Taken in it`s entire context it would not in this instance mean someone who has not been born again, for who (who has not been renewed in Spirit) has been sanctified, who isn`t born again.....no one!! Therefore due to the context, that someone is "sanctified in the blood of the covenant," it can only be talking about a believer.
If this passage was talking about those who are not born again, then why would Paul need to tell christians the result of those who are unbelievers and continuing in sin, this passage can do nothing to stop anyone from going to hell and cannot help anyone go to heaven, any verses of warning such as this serve no purpose if God has eternally decreed from the foundation of the earth those who He shall save and those whom He shall condemn. You could write a thousand books warning people of the consequences of sin, and it would be to no avail because it would not prick the conciense of anyone other than those whom God has saved.....and they can`t loose that anyway, so why tell them that "if they continue in sin there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."


Oh one thing to the OP, it does not take outward complete apostacy to loose your faith, read Matthew 7 14 onwards, Jesus also says that if we do not confess Him before others He will not confess us before the father....so you can be living your life right in all areas but if you are not giving the good news (ie are ashamed of Him and His words) then reguardless of all your other good works they will profit you nothing.



mark



Sorry I get a bit carried away sometimes

 

[jsw_24]

I just can't see anything being powerful enough to pull Christ out of you, erase the Holy Spirit, wash away Christ's atonement and snatch you out of God's hand.

 

[MerCYsMIraCLe]

I do not believe that our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life in pencil. If that were the case my space would be a hole in the parchment.


I think it is funny that the verse that set off the reformation is an Old Testament verse:

Hab 2:4¶Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.






In Jesus




BustedFlat

great post!

 

[MerCYsMIraCLe]

Can those of you who do not believe once saved...always saved please show me the Scripture that supports this?

I believe it's all level ground at the Cross. There is no measure of sin. Sin is sin in God's eyes.

I believe the consequences of certain sins in our lives are greater than others. Jesus died for ALL sin.

I believe to consider that we can lose our salvation is to consider God is a fickle God. You accept Jesus...you're in. Well...you walked away from Me...you're out. Now you've repented...you're back in. Ooops...that's a pretty big sin and you've committed it several times...you're back out. Whew...I'm so glad you repented...you're back in. This to me is just crazy thinking.

I will not even consider this concept of our loving Father and I think it demeans the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household."

Romans 8:1-3 There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh

2 Corinthians 1:21,22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption

Ephesians 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of his glory

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

God bless

And another great post!

 

[MarkEvan]

I do not believe that our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life in pencil. If that were the case my space would be a hole in the parchment.

Then why in Revelation does Jesus threaten the churches with, removing the lampstand from amongst them, and from blotting their names out of the book of life?
Although I do not believe that He literally blotts names out, I do believe that He is here telling them that their salvation is dependant upon what they do....."work out your salvation with fear and trembling!"

mark

 

[Cris413]

Hebrews 10

IMO these verses more than any others, irrefutably state that one can fall away from the faith which they once held. Firstly what does verse 26 mean when it says "after having recieved the knowledge of the truth," does it mean simply that if someone recieves the good news and rejects it and willfully continues in that sin, that for these there is no sacrifice for sins? Taken in it`s entire context it would not in this instance mean someone who has not been born again, for who (who has not been renewed in Spirit) has been sanctified, who isn`t born again.....no one!! Therefore due to the context, that someone is "sanctified in the blood of the covenant," it can only be talking about a believer.
If this passage was talking about those who are not born again, then why would Paul need to tell christians the result of those who are unbelievers and continuing in sin, this passage can do nothing to stop anyone from going to hell and cannot help anyone go to heaven, any verses of warning such as this serve no purpose if God has eternally decreed from the foundation of the earth those who He shall save and those whom He shall condemn. You could write a thousand books warning people of the consequences of sin, and it would be to no avail because it would not prick the conciense of anyone other than those whom God has saved.....and they can`t loose that anyway, so why tell them that "if they continue in sin there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."


Oh one thing to the OP, it does not take outward complete apostacy to loose your faith, read Matthew 7 14 onwards, Jesus also says that if we do not confess Him before others He will not confess us before the father....so you can be living your life right in all areas but if you are not giving the good news (ie are ashamed of Him and His words) then reguardless of all your other good works they will profit you nothing.



mark



Sorry I get a bit carried away sometimes

Hi Mark,

First I would like to say that I have personally been blessed by many of your posts. Thank you brother!

This post did leave me a little confused. So if I missed the point of your post, my apologies. (Sometimes you just have to speak to me like I’m 2 years old)

Secondly, I would like to comment that I personally believe there is a difference in losing one’s “faith” and losing one’s “salvation”. I have lost “faith” before but in those wilderness times I never once doubted my “salvation” and I praised God everyday for His grace and mercy…especially during those times.

I was wondering when I posted the request for Scripture to support losing one’s salvation if anyone would quote Hebrews 10 – particularly verse 26.

In my study of this verse I found that I could not state my understanding more plainly and simply that as noted by Pastor Chuck Smith in his commentary in BLB: **

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (NKJV)

**This is talking to the Jew who is wavering in his faith in Jesus Christ and who is seeking to go back to the priest with a sin offering. There is no further sacrifice. The lamb will do nothing. For the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is complete. It is once and for all. And there is no further sacrifice that can be offered, of a goat or a lamb or a calf or anything else. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is complete. There remains no other sacrifice for your sins. You can’t go back to the old system.

Here is the link if anyone would like to read the entire commentary. I found the whole study wonderful
Click here

Also of note concerning Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame. (NKJV)

Please be aware there is a HUGE difference between “backsliders” (fallen back into sin) and “defectors” (a deliberate and decisive abandonment)

Pastor Chuck points out in his commentary regarding Hebrews 6:4-6

Satan often uses this verse to a person who has backslidden. He says, "Man, you are out. Do you see what it says here in Hebrews? You've had it. That was the unpardonable sin that you committed and there is no way to renew you to repentance. You are out of the game."

Again, Pastor Chuck Smith has wonderful commentary in BLB regarding this Scripture I encourage all to give it a read.

God bless

 

[MarkEvan]

Hi Mark,

First I would like to say that I have personally been blessed by many of your posts. Thank you brother!

This post did leave me a little confused. So if I missed the point of your post, my apologies. (Sometimes you just have to speak to me like I’m 2 years old)

Secondly, I would like to comment that I personally believe there is a difference in losing one’s “faith” and losing one’s “salvation”. I have lost “faith” before but in those wilderness times I never once doubted my “salvation” and I praised God everyday for His grace and mercy…especially during those times.

I was wondering when I posted the request for Scripture to support losing one’s salvation if anyone would quote Hebrews 10 – particularly verse 26.

In my study of this verse I found that I could not state my understanding more plainly and simply that as noted by Pastor Chuck Smith in his commentary in BLB: **

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (NKJV)

**This is talking to the Jew who is wavering in his faith in Jesus Christ and who is seeking to go back to the priest with a sin offering. There is no further sacrifice. The lamb will do nothing. For the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is complete. It is once and for all. And there is no further sacrifice that can be offered, of a goat or a lamb or a calf or anything else. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is complete. There remains no other sacrifice for your sins. You can’t go back to the old system.

Here is the link if anyone would like to read the entire commentary. I found the whole study wonderful
Click here

Also of note concerning Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame. (NKJV)

Please be aware there is a HUGE difference between “backsliders” (fallen back into sin) and “defectors” (a deliberate and decisive abandonment)

Pastor Chuck points out in his commentary regarding Hebrews 6:4-6

Satan often uses this verse to a person who has backslidden. He says, "Man, you are out. Do you see what it says here in Hebrews? You've had it. That was the unpardonable sin that you committed and there is no way to renew you to repentance. You are out of the game."

Again, Pastor Chuck Smith has wonderful commentary in BLB regarding this Scripture I encourage all to give it a read.

God bless

Hi Chris,

A lot of the times I find myself having to request things reworded so that I can get a better grasp of what is said, so don`t worry about if it doesn`t make sense just say and I will try to put it more clearly.

I also would like to add that I very much value your points of view on anything and this is the first time I have disagreed with anything you have said, however my understanding is not the rule which we should take...we should look to the scriptures for guidance.


.........now i`ve forgotten what I was going to say!!


Ah yes,


I also agree that there is a huge difference between loosing faith and salvation, salvation IMO is not yet ours, we have an assurance that those who endure to the end will be saved but that salvation is the end product, the culmination of our faith. Faith again IMO is something that can be lost, but when that loss is complete, ie when we are not only dipping into darkness but walking in it, then according to James 1 we have lost it, and without faith it is impossible to please God.

I have several objections to what pastor Chuck says of verse 26,

1/ Paul (I might as well continue saying paul as I believe he wrote hebrews) was not talking about someone who was wavering in faith, he was talking about someone who was wilffully doing that which they knew to be wrong.

2/ Pastor chuck does not address the verses that say that such a person has "profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the spirit of grace," if it were talking about someone who was thinking about going back to the old covenant, then what do these verses signify?

3/ It cannot only apply to a jew, we are both according to Paul, one in Christ Jesus, what applies to them applies to us.

4/ Finally think about what is being said, if Pastor chuck is right then someone who has not recieved the knowledge of the truth can still offer sacrifices that are acceptable to God, but we both kow that this is not the case. All men now fall into this covenant, all men are comanded to repent, there is no other sacrifice full stop for man other than that of christ.


For the moment I will stick with chapter 10.

Mark

 

[Cris413]

Then why in Revelation does Jesus threaten the churches with, removing the lampstand from amongst them, and from blotting their names out of the book of life?
Although I do not believe that He literally blotts names out, I do believe that He is here telling them that their salvation is dependant upon what they do....."work out your salvation with fear and trembling!"

mark

Wow Mark…you sure are sending me through the Word today…thank you brother.

The best I can give in response to this post is straight from the Word and encourage reading the entire Scripture rather than a verse or two:

Revelation 2:1-7 The Loveless Church

1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:

2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

3 “and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary.

4 “Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

5 “Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place – unless you repent

6 “But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God” (NKJV)

Keeping in mind Jesus is speaking to the Seven Churches of the Apocalypse.

Again…I feel led to quote commentary from Pastor Chuck Smith (KJV), as I am merely a work in progress and not a Pastor-Teacher:

So the warning is that He will not stay in a loveless church. He will take that church away from His presence. For where was Jesus walking in the midst? "This sayeth he who walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks." So, it is relevant to the message of judgment that He announces. "If you don't repent, I am going to take and remove the church from the place of My presence. I won't stay", He is saying, "in a church that lacks love."

As I read the Word and ask the Spirit for guidance and understanding, I do not yet feel led that this is a warning that one can lose his/her salvation. It says to me that Jesus will not be present in a loveless church. The “works” of the church are wonderful…but the focus is not on works…but love…

Matthew 22:37,38 Jesus said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all yourheart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” 38 “this is the first and great commandment (NKJV)

God bless you brother.

 

[Cris413]

Hi Chris,

A lot of the times I find myself having to request things reworded so that I can get a better grasp of what is said, so don`t worry about if it doesn`t make sense just say and I will try to put it more clearly.

I also would like to add that I very much value your points of view on anything and this is the first time I have disagreed with anything you have said, however my understanding is not the rule which we should take...we should look to the scriptures for guidance.


.........now i`ve forgotten what I was going to say!!


Ah yes,


I also agree that there is a huge difference between loosing faith and salvation, salvation IMO is not yet ours, we have an assurance that those who endure to the end will be saved but that salvation is the end product, the culmination of our faith. Faith again IMO is something that can be lost, but when that loss is complete, ie when we are not only dipping into darkness but walking in it, then according to James 1 we have lost it, and without faith it is impossible to please God.

I have several objections to what pastor Chuck says of verse 26,

1/ Paul (I might as well continue saying paul as I believe he wrote hebrews) was not talking about someone who was wavering in faith, he was talking about someone who was wilffully doing that which they knew to be wrong.

2/ Pastor chuck does not address the verses that say that such a person has "profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the spirit of grace," if it were talking about someone who was thinking about going back to the old covenant, then what do these verses signify?

3/ It cannot only apply to a jew, we are both according to Paul, one in Christ Jesus, what applies to them applies to us.

4/ Finally think about what is being said, if Pastor chuck is right then someone who has not recieved the knowledge of the truth can still offer sacrifices that are acceptable to God, but we both kow that this is not the case. All men now fall into this covenant, all men are comanded to repent, there is no other sacrifice full stop for man other than that of christ.


For the moment I will stick with chapter 10.

Mark

Thank you for your insight. This is certainly not an issue that will be resolved in a day on CF . Theologians have been discussing this issue for a long, long time and I certainly am not a theologian.

I use to have this conversation regularly with the Pentecostal Minister I use to work with...suffice it to say we both kept our own beliefs but what was really terrific was that the common ground we share is our love for the Lord.

See you there, brother!

God bless

PS...I will study and pray on this further and particularly your concerns regarding Pastor Chuck Smith's commentary. Again...this requires a rather intensive study.

 

[BustedFlat]

Then why in Revelation does Jesus threaten the churches with, removing the lampstand from amongst them, and from blotting their names out of the book of life?
Although I do not believe that He literally blotts names out, I do believe that He is here telling them that their salvation is dependant upon what they do....."work out your salvation with fear and trembling!"

mark

Is he talking about the saved? Or is he talking about those who think that sitting in church (works) saves them?
Is he talking about the churches that teach you can only be saved if they say you are?

The judge at the White Throne Judgment will be Jesus and those not in the book of life will have their judgment. Revelation 20:11-15:
Rev 20:11¶And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. :14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Hi Chris,

A lot of the times I find myself having to request things reworded so that I can get a better grasp of what is said, so don`t worry about if it doesn`t make sense just say and I will try to put it more clearly.

I also would like to add that I very much value your points of view on anything and this is the first time I have disagreed with anything you have said, however my understanding is not the rule which we should take...we should look to the scriptures for guidance.


.........now i`ve forgotten what I was going to say!!


Ah yes,


I also agree that there is a huge difference between loosing faith and salvation, salvation IMO is not yet ours, we have an assurance that those who endure to the end will be saved but that salvation is the end product, the culmination of our faith. Faith again IMO is something that can be lost, but when that loss is complete, ie when we are not only dipping into darkness but walking in it, then according to James 1 we have lost it, and without faith it is impossible to please God.

I have several objections to what pastor Chuck says of verse 26,

1/ Paul (I might as well continue saying paul as I believe he wrote hebrews) was not talking about someone who was wavering in faith, he was talking about someone who was wilffully doing that which they knew to be wrong.
2/ Pastor chuck does not address the verses that say that such a person has "profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the spirit of grace," if it were talking about someone who was thinking about going back to the old covenant, then what do these verses signify?
3/ It cannot only apply to a jew, we are both according to Paul, one in Christ Jesus, what applies to them applies to us.

4/ Finally think about what is being said, if Pastor chuck is right then someone who has not recieved the knowledge of the truth can still offer sacrifices that are acceptable to God, but we both kow that this is not the case. All men now fall into this covenant, all men are comanded to repent, there is no other sacrifice full stop for man other than that of christ.


For the moment I will stick with chapter 10.

Mark

The book of Hebrews was written to address the questions and concerns of the Jewish believer. It very much contains valuable information for all believers, but its focus is on the Jewish, and it is dealing with them wanting to go back to the traditions of the temple. They have a lifetime of Levitical law preached at them and are wanting to go back to what they have always been taught. It is very important that you understand the first chapters as well as the first verses of the chapter to understand what is going on in 10:26. As A. J. Fausset wrote in his 1871 commentary:

Previously the oneness of Christ's offering was shown; now is shown its perfection as contrasted with the law sacrifices.

the Spirit of grace--the Spirit that confers grace. "He who does not accept the benefit, insults Him who confers it. He hath made thee a son: wilt thou become a slave? He has come to take up His abode with thee; but thou art introducing evil into thyself" [CHRYSOSTOM]. "It is the curse of evil eternally to propagate evil: so, for him who profanes the Christ without him, and blasphemes the Christ within him, there is subjectively no renewal of a change of mind ( Hbr 6:6 ), and objectively no new sacrifice for sins" ( Hbr 10:26 ) [THOLUCK].

wilfully--presumptuously, Greek "willingly." After receiving "full knowledge (so the Greek, compare 1Ti 2:4 ) of the truth," by having been "enlightened," and by having "tasted" a certain measure even of grace of "the Holy Ghost" (the Spirit of truth, Jhn 14:17 ; and "the Spirit of grace," Hbr 10:29 ): to fall away (as "sin" here means, Hbr 3:12, 17 ; compare Hbr 6:6 ) and apostatize ( Hbr 3:12 ) to Judaism or infidelity, is not a sin of ignorance, or error ("out of the way," the result) of infirmity, but a deliberate sinning against the Spirit ( Hbr 10:29 Hbr 5:2 ): such sinning, where a consciousness of Gospel obligations not only was, but is present: a sinning presumptuously and preseveringly against Christ's redemption for us, and the Spirit of grace in us. "He only who stands high can fall low. A lively reference in the soul to what is good is necessary in order to be thoroughly wicked; hence, man can be more reprobate than the beasts, and the apostate angels than apostate man" [THOLUCK].

A Jew who has not accepted Christ Jesus, must then by the Levitical Law continue with those laws and the sacrifices therein. This is why the loss of the Temple was such a stunning loss to them. Without it there is no chance for the sacrifice of sin.


In Jesus

BustedFlat

 

[epyon]

Once your are save Jesus is there alway advocating your soul to God. Jesus die for our sin so that when we turn our back all you have to do is ask forgiveness and it will be given.

 

[MarkEvan]

Thank you for your insight. This is certainly not an issue that will be resolved in a day on CF . Theologians have been discussing this issue for a long, long time and I certainly am not a theologian.

I use to have this conversation regularly with the Pentecostal Minister I use to work with...suffice it to say we both kept our own beliefs but what was really terrific was that the common ground we share is our love for the Lord.

See you there, brother!

God bless

PS...I will study and pray on this further and particularly your concerns regarding Pastor Chuck Smith's commentary. Again...this requires a rather intensive study.

My dear sister, once again you prove your worth, you bring it back to the very core of our faith, for faith working through love is everything, next to this the doctrines we hold are not so important (I do not say they are not important but rather that faith working through love far exceeds them). And you are right theologians have gone back and forth over this issue giving it more weight than is needed, but as you have said, all we need is faith working through love.

God bless

Mark

 

[MarkEvan]

Is he talking about the saved? Or is he talking about those who think that sitting in church (works) saves them?
Is he talking about the churches that teach you can only be saved if they say you are?

Firstly let me wish you a happy birthday now as I may forget to on the day......so happy birthday in advance.

IMO Jesus is here talking to those who are saved, as it would appear from th ewords used that their names (in one sense) are in the book of life, otherwise the typology of "blotting them out" is meaningless as their names wern`t in to be blotted out in the first place. I do not doubt that what He says addresses the churches as a whole, but as churches are made up of individuals we need to know what it means to each individual.

The book of Hebrews was written to address the questions and concerns of the Jewish believer. It very much contains valuable information for all believers, but its focus is on the Jewish, and it is dealing with them wanting to go back to the traditions of the temple. They have a lifetime of Levitical law preached at them and are wanting to go back to what they have always been taught. It is very important that you understand the first chapters as well as the first verses of the chapter to understand what is going on in 10:26. As A. J. Fausset wrote in his 1871 commentary:

My appologies but from what I read A.J Fausset appears to be advocating what I said, I may need it re-explaining, lol.

Mark

 

[I'mHis]

Thanks for all of your opinions guys!! I appreciate what everyone has said.