Losing motivation

[KnowHisJoy77]

When our faith is tested we often find it difficult, i find my peace in heaven, not this world. Sure i experience peace but i also experience tribulation and anguish. This to me seems like what the Apostles said would happen. How much peace did the apostles have when they were hiding behind the temple walls, in fear of the Jews?

It is natural for humans beings have depression tribulations mourning grieving etc the Bible tell the stories of men walking with God, human like us. Lord Jesus was the man of sorrows, the Apostles suffered for the faith ended up persecuted, were martyrs, all fought the good fight on NT plus OT books some Psalms are full of anguish, depression etc others that are well know to be sought comfort for deep depressed when we are down mood land life seems[bless and do not curse]without mean is[bless and do not curse] Eclesiastes and of course Job and Chapter 3 is one very depressing read..poor dear Job. I love Job and pay him many visits and stay with him in his struggles..I like many identify with their moods because it translated my situation.

All these stories are in the Bible to show and to teach us, whatever circumstances we might go through, we must trust God is in control and that He proved His love for us already in the Cross. I am pretty much know the Lord do not want we get stucked in depression pit, to surrender to it and not fight. Depression voice is very negative, and many in this state forget that God is, still reign. What reminds me Martin Luther depressive moods and his wife dressed in black..he asked who had died and she said God did..because she was tired dealing with his non responsiveness because depressed. If we let depression will take over and talk for us..and will say lies all type of hopeles stuff..now if people in depression think they have green light to stop following God instructions to remain in the Word, trust and believe precious promises, stand and believe..they are wrong.

Unfortunately those who thinks that people who keep remind others of the Living Word while they are struggling with depression do not care or do not know what they are going through, is not so. Many went through that and experienced and know that God is right, His Word is living and medicine for the soul and food for the spirit for all individuals and depressed people are not above anyone else. We must preach to ourselves! I know people with mental illness that take their meds and take the Word plus praise and worship to keep it sane functioning..just pills not enough.

 

[KnowHisJoy77]

Hummm..I was thinking something ..I don't know what importance people here give to the Bible..Scriptures to me is the authoritative Word of God. I do not embrace any other teachings, traditions etc depending which Christian denomination is around I will be talking foreigner. I don't know yet to identify the different crosses people are carrying in their profiles. I am carrying a Protestant one.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

It is natural for humans beings have depression tribulations mourning grieving etc the Bible tell the stories of men walking with God, human like us. Lord Jesus was the man of sorrows, the Apostles suffered for the faith ended up persecuted, were martyrs, all fought the good fight on NT plus OT books some Psalms are full of anguish, depression etc others that are well know to be sought comfort for deep depressed when we are down mood land life seems[bless and do not curse]without mean is[bless and do not curse] Eclesiastes and of course Job and Chapter 3 is one very depressing read..poor dear Job. I love Job and pay him many visits and stay with him in his struggles..I like many identify with their moods because it translated my situation.

All these stories are in the Bible to show and to teach us, whatever circumstances we might go through, we must trust God is in control and that He proved His love for us already in the Cross. I am pretty much know the Lord do not want we get stucked in depression pit, to surrender to it and not fight. Depression voice is very negative, and many in this state forget that God is, still reign. What reminds me Martin Luther depressive moods and his wife dressed in black..he asked who had died and she said God did..because she was tired dealing with his non responsiveness because depressed. If we let depression will take over and talk for us..and will say lies all type of hopeles stuff..now if people in depression think they have green light to stop following God instructions to remain in the Word, trust and believe precious promises, stand and believe..they are wrong.

Unfortunately those who thinks that people who keep remind others of the Living Word while they are struggling with depression do not care or do not know what they are going through, is not so. Many went through that and experienced and know that God is right, His Word is living and medicine for the soul and food for the spirit for all individuals and depressed people are not above anyone else. We must preach to ourselves! I know people with mental illness that take their meds and take the Word plus praise and worship to keep it sane functioning..just pills not enough.

I don't disagree at all. However, i don''t think that depression is something someone can lay hands on and cast out like an illness, or something that faith will cure in one day. Perhaps i'm wrong, but i believe we must learn to trust God, learn to obey Him, pray, stay in the Word, even learn to endure a little suffering, and learn to control our emotions. This is just my opinion.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Hummm..I was thinking something ..I don't know what importance people here give to the Bible..Scriptures to me is the authoritative Word of God. I do not embrace any other teachings, traditions etc depending which Christian denomination is around I will be talking foreigner. I don't know yet to identify the different crosses people are carrying in their profiles. I am carrying a Protestant one.

Im just some guy who follows the Lords commands and i have no Church. I do communicate with believers online and i think many of them pray for me.

 

[KnowHisJoy77]

I don't disagree at all. However, i don''t think that depression is something someone can lay hands on and cast out like an illness, or something that faith will cure in one day. Perhaps i'm wrong, but i believe we must learn to trust God, learn to obey Him, pray, stay in the Word, even learn to endure a little suffering, and learn to control our emotions. This is just my opinion.

I think there is a season in our lives that we go through depression and our souls become downcast and there are different degrees and reasons why we get depressed too. I think.secular psychology is of no good for a Christian because many of them are atheist and don't believe we have souls, or that we sin or that human beings are fallen like God say we all sinners and need Jesus. They say depression is an illness and want to medicate giving prescriptions and millions of people around the world take it.

I believe in biblical counseling. If necessary to medicate. Yes I believe in exercising self control and all the fruits of Spirit. I agree with you to stay in the Word and to endure for sure. Some people around the world have no acess to basic care and mental care are out of reach, they have to endure. Now many societies will try to cure their sick in different ways..if the problem is because they haven't made peace with God and belongs to the kingdom of darkness, only coming to God will deal with that sin that needs the blood of Christ. The bible Jesus talked about casting demons and the need of praying and fasting. The bible talk about elders to lay their hands on the sick, to call the elders. I do know that people in their anguish and struggles will look for solutions for their pain. And some will try to self medicate themselves with all type of things too from shopping, food, etc to drugs.

I do not believe that someone who is born again has a demon inside, is possessed. It is, not possible to be sealed by the Holy Spirit and have Him inside and be possessed by demons. Christians can be oppressed. People trying to help others and others ignorant of whats really goes on inside an individual can error, but we are to forgive all and not to let bitterness takes root in our hearts regarding what others did to us. And false teaching must be condemned as false teachings and point to Scriptures and the Lord.

 

[KnowHisJoy77]

Im just some guy who follows the Lords commands and i have no Church. I do communicate with believers online and i think many of them pray for me.

Oh..why you have no church? Are you looking for one or you don't have acess to any church or you are home or hospital bond? Sorry for asking but there many people with different conditions even paralyzing depression and they don't leave home. I went through a season of agoraphobia and other phobias and I was really stucked! I ended up lacking vitamin D because lack of sun exposure.

I am sorry if I am invading your privacy. .I just try to get information to understand better. I give information for others to understand me better and where I am coming from too. I am simple person and I love the Lord and His Word. Compassion and love for people is because of Him. To me Love and Truth walk together.

Praying with you and you pray with me too.

God bless!

 

[dms1972]

I don't know what importance people here give to the Bible..Scriptures to me is the authoritative Word of God. I do not embrace any other teachings, traditions etc depending which Christian denomination is around I will be talking foreigner. I don't know yet to identify the different crosses people are carrying in their profiles. I am carrying a Protestant one.

I describe myself as a christian seeker, as Jesus and the Bible says to seek first the Kingdom of God and it's Righteousness. I also am seeking a church fellowship to belong to. I haven't rejected church. I think the Bible is central in bearing witness, and coming to knowledge of Jesus Christ. The Bible is God's written Word. It is both God's Word and the words of men of His choosing that He called to bear witness to His Son.

 

[dms1972]

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[Restoresmysoul]

I think there is a season in our lives that we go through depression and our souls become downcast and there are different degrees and reasons why we get depressed too. I think.secular psychology is of no good for a Christian because many of them are atheist and don't believe we have souls, or that we sin or that human beings are fallen like God say we all sinners and need Jesus. They say depression is an illness and want to medicate giving prescriptions and millions of people around the world take it.

I believe in biblical counseling. If necessary to medicate. Yes I believe in exercising self control and all the fruits of Spirit. I agree with you to stay in the Word and to endure for sure. Some people around the world have no acess to basic care and mental care are out of reach, they have to endure. Now many societies will try to cure their sick in different ways..if the problem is because they haven't made peace with God and belongs to the kingdom of darkness, only coming to God will deal with that sin that needs the blood of Christ. The bible Jesus talked about casting demons and the need of praying and fasting. The bible talk about elders to lay their hands on the sick, to call the elders. I do know that people in their anguish and struggles will look for solutions for their pain. And some will try to self medicate themselves with all type of things too from shopping, food, etc to drugs.

I do not believe that someone who is born again has a demon inside, is possessed. It is, not possible to be sealed by the Holy Spirit and have Him inside and be possessed by demons. Christians can be oppressed. People trying to help others and others ignorant of whats really goes on inside an individual can error, but we are to forgive all and not to let bitterness takes root in our hearts regarding what others did to us. And false teaching must be condemned as false teachings and point to Scriptures and the Lord.

I have some sort of physiological disorder, i don't know what but i know my mind goes through many things. However, this is just spiritual warfare as far as i'm concerned. I know nothing about demon possession but i know we all have the enemy inside, he tries to get us to follow him, but we must walk in the spirit. This is my opinion.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Oh..why you have no church? Are you looking for one or you don't have acess to any church or you are home or hospital bond? Sorry for asking but there many people with different conditions even paralyzing depression and they don't leave home. I went through a season of agoraphobia and other phobias and I was really stucked! I ended up lacking vitamin D because lack of sun exposure.

I am sorry if I am invading your privacy. .I just try to get information to understand better. I give information for others to understand me better and where I am coming from too. I am simple person and I love the Lord and His Word. Compassion and love for people is because of Him. To me Love and Truth walk together.

Praying with you and you pray with me too.

God bless!

Its personal, i don't discuss it. Thanks for your concern though. No matter what challenge i face i must walk by faith, not sight. I put my hope in the Lord in everything, no matter what happens i cant fall away from hoping in Him or following Him. This world is not my home, im just passing through.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I'm not scared, even though i have problems that others will never understand, i have faith and His Grace is sufficient for me. And men like David and Paul, and of course the Lord Himself have been a great role model and much inspiration for my life. People will never understand a thing unless they themselves go through it, so i don't blame them, but i don't let their ignorance cause me grief either, not anymore. I don't say they are ignorant, just that they don't know about certain things, just as we all don't understand everything. I actually feel very blessed even though things can be difficult at times. Every suffering i have endured has helped me in some way, it taught me self control, and to set my affections on heaven rather than this fallen word. Amen, glory to God and Praise our Lord and Savior, i'm blessed.

 

[KnowHisJoy77]

I forgot where this thread was...


You are welcome Restoresmysoul! Yes, we are not citizen of this world but pilgrims.

Blessings to you'all. ..

I am waiting for a great friend to leave surgery! ♥ God is in control!

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I forgot where this thread was...


You are welcome Restoresmysoul! Yes, we are not citizen of this world but pilgrims.

Blessings to you'all. ..

I am waiting for a great friend to leave surgery! ♥ God is in control!

Amen.

 

[dms1972]

Thanks again folks who prayed , I am still keeping going with life on earth.

I think the main thing I struggle with is that christianity should be mutually supportive, I look for ways to help others and encourage others, but feel rather overlooked or brushed off sometimes with a quick check your own spiritual self-sufficiency exercises kind of reply. Does God require any more than praying for others in need? I find he requires more of me at times that I actually walk with someone in need for a bit.

Its strange that I live alone, and in three years at a church no one ever invited me to a meal with company in their own home. On the other hand I years ago I went to a church event at a church I didn't belong to and a couple with several children who didn't know me at all, without formality just invited me back for pancakes and to watch some tennis that was on TV at the time. It really encouraged me at the time. They were very relaxed and unassuming. I miss this. I went forward nearly everytime I was at my last church - forward to be open for fellowship. Listened to elderly folks who live alone, and found out how their week had been, while younger guys made approaches to the younger women visitors and brought them cups of tea. I was ready to invite others back if the opportunity presented itself and have shown hospitality to others - they talked mostly about themselves and their projects, or just shyed away from any extended conversation.

Honestly cause it needs to be said, Churches without God the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit - suck. Forums without the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit suck too. I can think of no better way to put it they suck what life there is left in a person sometimes. Subjective worship sucks. Again no disrespect. Busy activity and loads of things going on don't always mean their is living water on offer.

Most churches think that when Jesus said "behold I stand at the door and knock" - he was talking about the human heart primarlily - that's as may be the case. But He said this to a church. Please don't go off twisting it to mean Jesus is out there in the neighbourhood - again that is as may be the case.

I can't stand sick subjectivism - the legacy of Rudolf Bultmann in theology and Carl Jung in psychology. Some things are subjective but these two were given far too much credence especially Jung with his esoteric personality theories for the initiates. Do christians not know Jung was building an alternative worldview to Christianity? These are the mixtures that sap genuine christian motivation and renewal in my opinion.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Thanks again folks who prayed , I am still keeping going with life on earth.

I think the main thing I struggle with is that christianity should be mutually supportive, I look for ways to help others and encourage others, but feel rather overlooked or brushed off sometimes with a quick check your own spiritual self-sufficiency exercises kind of reply. Does God require any more than praying for others in need? I find he requires more of me at times that I actually walk with someone in need for a bit.

Its strange that I live alone, and in three years at a church no one ever invited me to a meal with company in their own home. On the other hand I years ago I went to a church event at a church I didn't belong to and a couple with several children who didn't know me at all, without formality just invited me back for pancakes and to watch some tennis that was on TV at the time. It really encouraged me at the time. They were very relaxed and unassuming. I miss this. I went forward nearly everytime I was at my last church - forward to be open for fellowship. Listened to elderly folks who live alone, and found out how their week had been, while younger guys made approaches to the younger women visitors and brought them cups of tea. I was ready to invite others back if the opportunity presented itself and have shown hospitality to others - they talked mostly about themselves and their projects, or just shyed away from any extended conversation.

Honestly cause it needs to be said, Churches without God the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit - suck. Forums without the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit suck too. I can think of no better way to put it they suck what life there is left in a person sometimes. Subjective worship sucks. Again no disrespect. Busy activity and loads of things going on don't always mean their is living water on offer.

Most churches think that when Jesus said "behold I stand at the door and knock" - he was talking about the human heart primarlily - that's as may be the case. But He said this to a church. Please don't go off twisting it to mean Jesus is out there in the neighbourhood - again that is as may be the case.

I can't stand sick subjectivism - the legacy of Rudolf Bultmann in theology and Carl Jung in psychology. Some things are subjective but these two were given far too much credence especially Jung with his esoteric personality theories for the initiates. Do christians not know Jung was building an alternative worldview to Christianity? These are the mixtures that sap genuine christian motivation and renewal in my opinion.

Please expound more on Carl Jung. What was this alternative worldview to Christianity? Thank you.

 

[dms1972]

------------

 

[dms1972]

Please expound more on Carl Jung. What was this alternative worldview to Christianity? Thank you.

I can't expound very much except based on what others more knowledgable than I have written.

Jung was from a family of Lutheran pastors he had several uncles who were in ministry, but he was disappointed with his father's approach to the life of faith - not on the grounds of his lutheranism, his father just seemed to him to not be finding the answers and was going through a crisis of faith. His mother was quite different but she suffered personality shifts between day and night. He thought he had the same sort of mind as his mother, a seers mind, but because of this he was from his childhood spiritually vulnerable and open to false revelations, that he then attributed to God.

He's was disappointed with the expression of faith he saw in his father.


Because of the false revelations and his acceptance of them however he said Jesus never became quite real to him, acceptable, or lovable. He always held concept of God that was a synthesis of good and evil.

He wouldn't treat christians at times who came to him because he said he couldn't do it better than Jesus, but in a sense though he was astute not to bring people into a mix of his spirituality, and their own, so that was why he with more mature christians sent them back to their christian group. He actually though his spirituality is emphatically not christian, has a measure of wisdom more so than those who dabble more ignorantly in things like yoga for exercise or relaxation - he knew it was quite dangerous to dabble ignorantly in spiritualities.

On several occasions he had dreams and feelings of being close to becoming psychotic. Often these dreams contained figures and symbols from the Bible but re-symbolised with a new meaning that reconciled good and evil.

He was basically opposed to the Augustinian understanding of the privatio bono : and insisted evil (Satan) was on a par with good (God). Wereas for instance CS Lewis would have said that the devil is not equal to God, but only equal to Michael the Archangel. Both are creatures.

But for Jung he eventually sought to explain explain evil as somehow originating within the Godhead. So his intellectual framework is Gnostic.


In fact the Bible speaks of a mystery of iniquity - therefore something we can't really explain - and proclaims rather that God is Good, and victorious over evil.

There is more written about it by Leanne Payne, Jeffrey Satinover, David Benner. This paragraph from Leanne Payne's book The Healing Presence explains Jung's system:

Jung's reductionism...consists in treating supernatural and spiritual realities as merely things within the mind, as only psychologically real. "Creeds and confessions are regarded as projections of the psyche. Christianity become valued not for the truths it reveals about man and God, but for its usefulness in mapping and exploring the unconscious. Consequently, Scripture is interpreted subjectively, Christ loses his uniqueness as incarnate Word and Mediator between God and man." It is in this way that Jung not only empties Christianity of its objective reality, but any other system with transcendent value as well, and then shapes it into his own perception of psychic reality.

The Myers-Briggs personality test is based on Jung's theories - it kind of modifies them a bit. Some christians use it, others for instance Anglican Renewal Ministries reviewed their own use of it and decided to drop it.

I don't really know in regard to the Myers-Briggs - I generally think obsession with personality type is unhealthy and it is a questionable 'instrument' - with a quite circumscribed and limited use. It's used outside of that quite often now (because it became marketed). When it was assessed before that by an educational testing agency in regard to what it actually was measuring they found it wasn't always measuring what it claimed - (probably due to the esoterism in Jung's theories).

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I can't expound very much except based on what others more knowledgable than I have written.

Jung was from a family of Lutheran pastors he had several uncles who were in ministry, but he was disappointed with his father's approach to the life of faith - not on the grounds of his lutheranism, his father just seemed to him to not be finding the answers and was going through a crisis of faith. His mother was quite different but she suffered personality shifts between day and night. He thought he had the same sort of mind as his mother, a seers mind, but because of this he was from his childhood spiritually vulnerable and open to false revelations, that he then attributed to God.

He's an interesting figure who was disappointed with the expression of faith he saw in his father.

He wouldn't treat christians at times who came to him because he said he couldn't do it better than Jesus.

Because of the false revelations and his acceptance of them however he said Jesus never became quite real to him, acceptable, or lovable. He always held concept of God that was a synthesis of good and evil.

On several occasions he had dreams and feelings of being close to becoming psychotic. Often these dreams contained figures and symbols from the Bible but re-symbolised with a new meaning that reconciled good and evil.

He was basically opposed to the Augustinian understanding of the privatio bono : and insisted evil (Satan) was on a par with good (God). Wereas for instance CS Lewis would have said that the devil is not equal to God, but only equal to Michael the Archangel. Both are creatures.

But for Jung he eventually sought to explain explain evil as somehow originating within the Godhead. So his intellectual framework is Gnostic.

In fact the Bible says evil (iniquity) is a mystery - therefore something we can't really explain - and proclaims rather that God is Good.

There is more written about it by Leanne Payne, Jeffrey Satinover, David Benner. This paragraph from Leanne Payne's book The Healing Presence explains Jung's system:

Jung's reductionism...consists in treating supernatural and spiritual realities as merely things within the mind, as only psychologically real. "Creeds and confessions are regarded as projections of the psyche. Christianity become valued not for the truths it reveals about man and God, but for its usefulness in mapping and exploring the unconscious. Consequently, Scripture is interpreted subjectively, Christ loses his uniqueness as incarnate Word and Mediator between God and man." It is in this way that Jung not only empties Christianity of its objective reality, but any other system with transcendent value as well, and then shapes it into his own perception of psychic reality.

The Myers-Briggs personality test is based on Jung's theories - it kind of modifies them a bit. Some christians use it, others for instance Anglican Renewal Ministries reviewed their own use of it and decided to drop it.

I don't really know in regard to the Myers-Briggs - I generally think obsession with personality type is unhealthy and it is a questionable 'instrument' - with a quite circumscribed and limited use. It's used outside of that quite often now (because it became marketed). When it was assessed before that by an educational testing agency in regard to what it actually was measuring they found it wasn't always measuring what it claimed - (probably due to the esoterism in Jung's theories).

Because we have less industry and the shortage of men that there was for these sorts of jobs during and after the war is not the case now, its usefulness it seems to me is fairly limited.

Thank you for sharing an insight into this field. These things are above my head, not that i cannot understand them, just that my mind is geared toward simplicity and the Word. I value those things above all else. I have a hard time dealing with theology for this very reason. I can understand it but its not for me. I love the Word and the simplistic path of Christ found in faith, hope, love and holiness.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I suppose that if i left my place that God has given me, i may risk following Carl Jung.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

The Word is a fascinating thing. Sometimes we think its only scripture, or we may think its the Spirit. But its both. I love to think about it and how it helps me. It delights my heart.