Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[geocajun]

As you can see salvation is not dependent upon anything man can do. Man is justified by what Christ did at Calvary alone.

Does man have to have faith to be saved? Does man need to love God?
Are these things man doing the will of God?
For what its worth, I agree that man does not merit sinlessness (initial justification) - Christ did this for us and did it perfectly.

Because he did nothing to earn salvation he can do nothing to lose what is not his.

This is not reasonable.
If someone gives me something free, such as a $100 bill and I did nothing to earn it - I can still certaintly lose it.
I am not sure how your applying this logic, but it doesn't not seem logical at all to me. Maybe you could expound on it a bit?

And anybody who thinks after reading the above thinks that he can still lose his salvation after all that Christ has done is just trusting in his own merits..

Well I trust it the Merits of Christ for my salvation, but I also trust that I am more than capable of commiting serious sin. Once I do this, I trust that I cannot go to heaven until I repent and confess that sin, and again am forgiven and restored back to my initial state of sinlessness (initial justification).

Yes, I have heard all the verses you use to teach one can lose his salvation but if you take what Paul says you are secure.

we are quoting St. Paul. - you aren't implying that scripture is contradicting itself are you? how else can we harmonize St. Paul telling us that we can be "broken off" with your idea that we "cannot be broken off" ?

 

[Benedicta00]

AV,

What I quoted was the early first, second, and third, century Christians. They were the ones who learned from the apostles themselves. They were closest to Christ and they bare witness to what Christians believed since day one when there was no canon of scripture. How do you think Christianity survived the first 4 centuries before we had the cannon of scripture?

 

[AVBunyan]

1. What I quoted was the early first, second, and third, century Christians.
2. How do you think Christianity survived the first 4 centuries before we had the cannon of scripture?

Thank yuo Shelb5 for our response.

1. Those were all nice quotes but they were not scripture and that is my final authority. They may have been nice and godly people but many of their sayings were not in agreement with scripture. Being close to the Lord is no guarantee to being right. Judas spent three years with the Lord and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. Did you get a chance to read through all the scripture refereneces I put in the post?

2. The scripures were available back then - they may not have been in nice, bound velum scrolls but the parchments were available.

Have a nice day

 

[Benedicta00]

Thank yuo Shelb5 for our response.

1. Those were all nice quotes but they were not scripture and that is my final authority. They may have been nice and godly people but many of their sayings were not in agreement with scripture. Being close to the Lord is no guarantee to being right. Judas spent three years with the Lord and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. Did you get a chance to read through all the scripture refereneces I put in the post?

2. The scripures were available back then - they may not have been in nice, bound velum scrolls but the parchments were available.

Have a nice day

Do you realize that some of who I quote canonized your bible? Do you realize that many of who I quoted were the early martyrs for Christianity, that if they would not have shed their blood against those who persecuted and tried to do away with Christianity, you would not have your faith today? And you are saying that the great fathers of the Christian faith who established Christianity for us all, were in error when some of them learned from the apotles themselves?

The Nicene creed is not scripture either yet you accept that and these same people whom I quote argued against those who said Jesus was not God. The council assembled to fight heresy when scripture was being quoted to argue against Jesus being God. You accept that even though it is not scripture don't you?

There are no scripture verses you can present that contradict any of the ECF writings.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It's easier to turn away from God and walk in the other direction than it is to turn towards Him and follow Him. Why would it not be easier to lose our salvation than to gain it?

I was reading down throught the thread looking for a good place where my 2 cents would fit in, and your question caught my eye Matt.
Why is it harder to lose you salvation than to gain it?
It is harder to lose it because we did nothing to gain it.
Just like we did nothing to be lost to start with, we did nothing to gain it either. You did nothing to get lost (other than being born), you also did nothing be saved (other than to be exposed to the truth of the gospel...).
Consider these verses:

Romans 5:16-19 GNB
16 And there is a difference between God's gift and the sin of one man. After the one sin, came the judgment of "Guilty"; but after so many sins, comes the undeserved gift of "Not guilty!"
17 It is true that through the sin of one man death began to rule because of that one man. But how much greater is the result of what was done by the one man, Jesus Christ! All who receive God's abundant grace and are freely put right with him will rule in life through Christ.
18 So then, as the one sin condemned all people, in the same way the one righteous act sets all people free and gives them life.
19 And just as all people were made sinners as the result of the disobedience of one man, in the same way they will all be put right with God as the result of the obedience of the one man.

I like where it says that we are much more saved now than we were lost before!
How lost were we?
Hopelessly!

How much more saved are we than we were once lost? What is the opposite of hopeless? Abundanty?!!

We were condemned and lost through no fault of our own because of what Adam did.
We are redeemed and saved by no action of our own by what Jesus did... except "how much more"!

So I can confidently say that I am saved to a greater degree than I was once lost.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[AVBunyan]

Thanks geocajun for your questions and response – it shows you gave my post some thought and I appreciate you at least looking at it.

“Does man have to have faith to be saved?”

Man’s faith is worthless – he has to have the faith of Jesus Christ in order to be justified. The faith from Christ is a free gift according to Eph. 2:8,9. This is great news for this helps us not to worry about our weak faith in regards to being justified.

“Does man need to love God?”

After he is saved he should love God but before he is saved he is dead and cannot love God.


“This is not reasonable. If someone gives me something free, such as a $100 bill and I did nothing to earn it - I can still certainly lose it.”

This is a hypothetical situation. Yes, you can lose the money but we are not talking about money here we are talking about the work that God did at salvation. The point I am making is that you do not have the power in yourself to undo the 38 different things God did for you instantly at your salvation. Wouldn’t you want to believe that or would you rather continue to find ways of “losing it”. Why not study out what I’ve presented and let God speak to your heart.


”I am not sure how you’re applying this logic, but it doesn't not seem logical at all to me. Maybe you could expound on it a bit?”

I’ll try - God demanded a perfect righteousness from me – I could not fulfill that requirement. Christ became sin for me that I might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Since Christ did the work at Calvary there was nothing left for me to do. God demanded the perfect sacrifice – Christ did the work and because of that work God imputed Christ’s righteousness to me. Since I did nothing at all to satisfy God then there is nothing I can do to undo the work Christ did. Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

“Well I trust it the Merits of Christ for my salvation, but I also trust that I am more than capable of commiting serious sin. Once I do this, I trust that I cannot go to heaven until I repent and confess that sin, and again am forgiven and restored back to my initial state of sinlessness (initial justification).”

This is where I believe you are incorrect according to Paul. Now, think about what you just said for a moment. You said you trust Christ but then you turn around and trust YOUR OWN REPENTANCE AND CONFESSION plus YOU NOT COMMITTING A SERIOUS SIN. So, when it gets right down to it you are not fully trusting in what Christ already did for you 2000 years ago – you are trusting ultimately in YOU. This is very important to see. God is not impressed with us “helping”” out His blessed Son. I could see God saying, (hypothetically speaking) “You mean to tell me what my Son did was not sufficient?” Our salvation is in a Person not a system, beliefs, or things we do.

We are quoting St. Paul. - you aren't implying that scripture is contradicting itself are you?”

I believe the 1611 AV is perfect and has no contradictions in it. God called Paul to reveal the Saviour and what He did at Calvary for us today – those before Paul did not have the revelation that he got from the Saviour – Look at Eph. 3:8,9 along with Col. 1:25. Paul said the gospel whereby you are saved (I Cor. 15:1-5) is “his” gospel – Rom. 2:16, 16:25; II Tim. 2:8.

“How else can we harmonize St. Paul telling us that we can be "broken off" with your idea that we "cannot be broken off"?”

I assume you are referring to Rom. 11 – there Paul is not dealing with individuals but the Gentiles as a whole vs. Israel as a whole. The issue there was the Gentiles getting in on the blessings not the individual being cut off after salvation – look at the context.

Enjoyed the chat – Looking forward to your response if you feel led to.


May God bless!

 

[Netpreacher]

The Bible tells us that without faith it is impossible to please God. If you lose your faith in the blood of Jesus Christ to wash away your sins, or lose faith that He rose from the dead, are you still able to please God?

The Bible is very clear concerning the issue of unrepentant sin. If you sin, will you die? If you sin after becoming a born-again Christian, will you be punished for it?

If the answer to these questions is no, then your faith is nothing but a license to commit sin. Calvinism and this kind of theology bears fruit of laziness in typical American Christianity. If you go to other countries where the brothers are being tortured for their faith, they press into the faith with everything they got, while we sit back and just say "Well, I'm saved! That's it! I can do nothing now!"

It's time to wake up and become real Christians, who are ready to die and work for their salvation like men.

 

[AVBunyan]

1. If you sin after becoming a born-again Christian, will you be punished for it?
2. If the answer to these questions is no, then your faith is nothing but a license to commit sin.
3. Calvinism and this kind of theology bears fruit of laziness in typical American Christianity.
4. "Well, I'm saved! That's it! I can do nothing now!"

Thanks Netpreacher for your thoughts.

1. Oh yes, whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap down here. Sin brings consequences, it just bring damnation or losing of one's soul.

2. I know no true saint who believes in grace believes it gives one a license to commit sin. We, who believe grace, believe: Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Grace teaches a man to live holy not the threat of the law or judgment. A man who understands grace seeks to live right because of what Christ has already done.

3. In typical American Christainity maybe - but the greatest missionaries, old writers and sufferers for the cause were not lazy and these men and women were Calvinists. Don't blame the doctrine for laziness. Typical Cristainity today is the most fleshly, worldy, uneducated in the scriptures, that there ever was. But, don't blame it on Calvinism.

4. Again, I know no true grace believer who thinks this way. I don't know who you are hanging around with and I don't doubt there are some cases but don't lump us altogether.

I don't take anything you said personally for I figured you are just preaching - no problem - preach it - Christainity is weak and lazy today. But we don't come close in our spiriutal walk to those Calvinists of yesteryear!

May God bless

 

[Benedicta00]

A person can be saved and lose their salvation if they reject the commandments of God and begin to live a life of mortal sin unto death knowing they are disobeying God and refusing to repent- even in their last hour.

The, "then they weren’t really saved" excuse does not cut it, IMO. A person who is born again and knows what sin is and they willfully do it anyway regardless that they know God said 'thou shall not', they lost salvation.

 

[AVBunyan]

1.A person can be saved and lose their salvation if they reject the commandments of God and begin to live a life of mortal sin unto death knowing they are disobeying God and refusing to repent- even in their last hour.

2. The, "then they weren’t really saved" excuse does not cut it, IMO. A person who is born again and knows what sin is and they willfully do it anyway regardless that they know God said 'thou shall not', they lost salvation.

1. Show me an example where a person who is in the body of Christ, sealed until the day of redemption had that happen to them. Show me where the apostle Paul taught anything like what you are saying. One more time with feeling - if righteousness comes by the law then Christ is dead in vain.

2. Have you ever read Romans 7 seriously? Here is the great apostle Paul struggling with the sin nature that is in all of us. To have to worry about going around without sinning and then have to worry about confession is not grace but law and bondage.

Bottom line - Either a person is trusting Christ alone or themselves for their salvation - as for me I am trusting what Christ did - God is satisfied with what Christ did for me and that is good enough for me.

May God bless

 

[geocajun]

1. Show me an example where a person who is in the body of Christ, sealed until the day of redemption had that happen to them. Show me where the apostle Paul taught anything like what you are saying. One more time with feeling - if righteousness comes by the law then Christ is dead in vain.

I am not sure what law you are referring to - be it the law of Moses, or the commandments Christ gave us.

but here are a few verses for you to munch on anyway:

(Romans 11:20-22)
20 That is so. They were broken off because of unbelief, but you are there because of faith. So do not become haughty, but stand in awe.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, (perhaps) he will not spare you either.
22 See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
(Hebrews 10:26-29)
26 If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins
27 but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who rejects the law of Moses is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?
(2 Peter 2:20-22)
20 For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
22 What is expressed in the true proverb has happened to them, "The dog returns to its own vomit," and "A bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire."

 

[Benedicta00]

1. Show me an example where a person who is in the body of Christ, sealed until the day of redemption had that happen to them. Show me where the apostle Paul taught anything like what you are saying. One more time with feeling - if righteousness comes by the law then Christ is dead in vain.

Explain to me if a married women has an affair with her married pastor and they both do not repent, knowing that what they are doing is a sin and they should die, are they still saved? Your telling me this sot of thing never happens?

2. Have you ever read Romans 7 seriously? Here is the great apostle Paul struggling with the sin nature that is in all of us. To have to worry about going around without sinning and then have to worry about confession is not grace but law and bondage.

Repenting and asking for forgiveness and being forgiven when we sin is bondage to you?

Bottom line - Either a person is trusting Christ alone or themselves for their salvation - as for me I am trusting what Christ did - God is satisfied with what Christ did for me and that is good enough for me.

Would it be to much to think God would like you to be sorry when you offend Him instead of thinking Christ swept it under the rug?

 

[AVBunyan]

1. Explain to me if a married women has an affair with her married pastor and they both do not repent, knowing that what they are doing is a sin and they should die, are they still saved? Your telling me this sot of thing never happens?

2. Repenting and asking for forgiveness and being forgiven when we sin is bondage to you?

3. Would it be to much to think God would like you to be sorry when you offend Him instead of thinking Christ swept it under the rug?

1. Sure this happens and if they are truly saved then they remain saved - now they lose their marriages, their peace of mine, the husband loses his money in alimoney payments - their reputations are gone, the joy is gone, etc. - yes, they reap what they sow and many suffer for their nonsense but they are saved. The person in sin in I Cor. 5 was still saved after that terrible act.

2. Where and when did I say this was bondage to me? I believe in repentance and confession but not in order to stay saved or to get forgiveness for a true saint already has forgiveness with God. What does Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 say - now please read it and tell me what the verses say. In a King James Bible it says I have forgiveness in Christ right this moment and when I speak wrongly to my wife I fell bad for my nonsense but when I go to Eph. 1:7 it says I am forgiven..

3. Mercy!!! Where did you get the idea that I believe God sweeps sin under the rug or I believe I can live like I want with no reaping what I've sown or that I don't believe in repentance or contrition? My, would you be so kind as to go back a re-read my posts on Justification. I believe a truly saved, regenerate person will feel terrible for sin and that the person who understands grace will sin less than those who do not understand grace.

Enjoyed the chat

May God bless you and give you grace to see grace!

 

[Benedicta00]

1. Sure this happens and if they are truly saved then they remain saved - now they lose their marriages, their peace of mine, the husband loses his money in alimoney payments - their reputations are gone, the joy is gone, etc. - yes, they reap what they sow and many suffer for their nonsense but they are saved. The person in sin in I Cor. 5 was still saved after that terrible act.

2. Where and when did I say this was bondage to me? I believe in repentance and confession but not in order to stay saved or to get forgiveness for a true saint already has forgiveness with God. What does Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 say - now please read it and tell me what the verses say. In a King James Bible it says I have forgiveness in Christ right this moment and when I speak wrongly to my wife I fell bad for my nonsense but when I go to Eph. 1:7 it says I am forgiven..

3. Mercy!!! Where did you get the idea that I believe God sweeps sin under the rug or I believe I can live like I want with no reaping what I've sown or that I don't believe in repentance or contrition? My, would you be so kind as to go back a re-read my posts on Justification. I believe a truly saved, regenerate person will feel terrible for sin and that the person who understands grace will sin less than those who do not understand grace.

Enjoyed the chat

May God bless you and give you grace to see grace!

You make no sense, no offense.

You are saying that a saved person can sin and get away with it. I can’t believe your saying this…

How do you know that a couple where one is supposed to be a man of God will lose those the things that you mention if they are careful not to be found out? But if the man is caught and shames his church, you do not think that is grave?

Why do you believe God is merciful to harden unrepentant sinners?

Why do you think you are suppose confess and repent if you can’t lose salvation? What would be the point in it?

If I sin, and do not repent and turn from my sin and still remain in my sin, I am still saved? Is this what you are saying because that is what is sounds like?

 

[AVBunyan]

You make no sense, no offense.

1. You are saying that a saved person can sin and get away with it. I can’t believe your saying this…

2. But if the man is caught and shames his church, you do not think that is grave?

3. Why do you believe God is merciful to harden unrepentant sinners?

4. Why do you think you are suppose confess and repent if you can’t lose salvation? What would be the point in it?

5. If I sin, and do not repent and turn from my sin and still remain in my sin, I am still saved? Is this what you are saying because that is what is sounds like?

1. We sin all the time - maybe you don't know what sin is - the only sins you seem to be concerned about are really "bad" sins. Of course what the man did is grave - serious and a disgrace.

2. Where did I hint that I didn't think it was grave - it is terrible - one of the worst sins there is.

3. God is merciful in the sense Christ died for those sins 2000 years ago. God may cause him to reap what he has sowed down here but in Christ (positionallly) he is justified.

4. To clear your conscience befor egod - the sine record was cleared at Calvary. I confess and acknowledge my sins to God in order to be honest with God - I thank him for the forgiveness that I already have and seek by the power of the Holy spirit in me to not to do it again.

You are confusing practical outworking with positional before God. I'm trying to be patience here but you seem to say that I'm saying things that I am not.

Bottom line - Christ died for your sins, was buried, and raised again the third day - Because of that when a person believes that God justifies him based upon Calvary. When a man messes up (and he does all the time) then God still sees him as justified. will the man reap what he sows down here? Of course but his salvation is sure.

 

[Benedicta00]

So are you saying that a unrepentant sinner will still go to heaven even if he never turns from his sin?

 

[geocajun]

1. We sin all the time - maybe you don't know what sin is - the only sins you seem to be concerned about are really "bad" sins. Of course what the man did is grave - serious and a disgrace.

Just sitting back observing your comments, I can tell that you aren't really listening to anything being said to you.

 

[AVBunyan]

Just sitting back observing your comments, I can tell that you aren't really listening to anything being said to you.

Surely, you jest - show me please where I am not listening and show me where Shelb5 is - thank you.:o

 

[Mark the Builder]

2. Where and when did I say this was bondage to me? I believe in repentance and confession but not in order to stay saved or to get forgiveness for a true saint already has forgiveness with God. What does Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 say - now please read it and tell me what the verses say. In a King James Bible it says I have forgiveness in Christ right this moment and when I speak wrongly to my wife I fell bad for my nonsense but when I go to Eph. 1:7 it says I am forgiven..

3. Mercy!!! Where did you get the idea that I believe God sweeps sin under the rug or I believe I can live like I want with no reaping what I've sown or that I don't believe in repentance or contrition? My, would you be so kind as to go back a re-read my posts on Justification. I believe a truly saved, regenerate person will feel terrible for sin and that the person who understands grace will sin less than those who do not understand grace.

Enjoyed the chat

May God bless you and give you grace to see grace!

This is quite a thread. Almost like watching a tennis match. AVBunyan, what is your thoughts on the need for a Christian to confess and repent? Is there a need; does it effect our standing with God at all if we don't?

It seems to me that you are saying the only consequences for sin is feeling bad and suffering the consequences for actions on earth but they have no effect on our heavenly standing. Are all the warnings given regarding the effects of sin with regards to a right standing to God only meant for those who are not saved?

For example 1 Cor. 5:9-11 "I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or a covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner -- not even to eat with such a person."

It seems to me that if it's God's intention to set outside the body of the church those 'Christians' who continue to sin that this would greatly effect their standing with not only the church but with God. I understand that this was a disciplinary action that was meant to draw the brother or sister back into fellowship but to tell me that it always did is a stretch. These I would consider the ones who shipwreck their faith.

mark.

 

[AVBunyan]

So are you saying that a unrepentant sinner will still go to heaven even if he never turns from his sin?

Shelb5 – I’m not sure what you are driving at or your motive in this is but I will continue for one more post. After looking at your above question I went to the Lord in prayer and this is what I have to say on the matter.

Shelb5 – how often do you sin everyday? I’m not talking about how often do you rob a bank or set off a terrorist bomb at the grocery market? I am not talking about hose “big, bad” sins, I’m talking about those little ones you don’t’ even know about. Have you ever read, “The sinfulness of Sin” written back in the 1600’s? Have you ever read Thomas Watsons’, “The Mischief of Sin”? Have you this day done something that was not of faith – Rom 14:13? Have you this day failed to do something good that you knew you should have done – James 4:17? Have you not read Jer. 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Do you know what that verse just told you and me? It says that we don’t’ even know our own hearts – do you know what that means? It means that you are sinning all day and most of the time you don’t even know it? Do you know what? You and I have sin that dwells in us and that makes us sinners and we sin all day long and don’t even know have of them. Have you repented and shown remorse for all the sins you’ve done today? Do you know another reason why we don’t know much about sin? We really don’t know about the holiness of God – we think we do but we don’t because if we did we would not sin so much but we do sin because that is what we are and that is what we do and God misses nothing - Prov. 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. – He knows our hearts and every sin act we commit – Psa. 139:1-5 and Heb. 4:12,13.

Now do you now what all that above means? You and I are in a mess – we’ve got a serious problem. The problem is that God requires sinless perfection in order for us to enter into heaven - Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. God’s standard by which he will judge you and me is His blessed Son - Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Guess what? If we are not as good as Jesus Christ then we don’t have a chance. Now, how are we going to be perfect (since that is what God requires)? What is going to take care of our sin problem (not just sins but the sin that dwells in us Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned)?

God has been offended and demands payment and you cannot pay it (neither can I) so what are we going to offer to God to take our sin and sins away? What do we have to offer to God to take away our sins - our repentance, our confessions, our seeking to live holy, our good life, and our contrition over sin? God will not accept these in order to reconcile us or to clear the record. We have to be made righteous and perfect in order for us to be with Him in heaven. God is going to pour out His wrath for sin on someone – someone is going to pay back an offended God. Someone is going to partake of His wrath for sin.

God is merciful – He knows there is nothing we can to justify ourselves so HE DOES THE WORK FOR US. God demands a perfect sacrifice, which we cannot provide for him for we are tainted with sin. SO GOD PROVIDES THE SACRIFICE IN THE PERSON OF HIS SON. Christ became sin for us. Christ died for our sins, he was buried, and he was raised again the third day. God was satisfied with what Christ did and that is all He will accept. In other words the only thing that God will accept as a sin payment is His Son. Do you know what that means? You had better get into the Son because that is the only haven of safety there is. 1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Either you have the son or you don’t. When Christ bore our sins at Calvary He became sin for us and God poured out the wrath that was destined for you and me and poured it out on His only Son.

All that God requires of you for JUSTIFICATION is for you to take Him at His word that what Christ did at Calvary for you and me was sufficient. The issue here is justification – we are not talking about what is required of you AFTER JUSFICATION for that is another subject. Get the justification settled first. When God justifies you on the basis of Calvary then He looks at you positionally as though you had never sinned or ever will. This is what God puts down in the books – you are free and clear, judicially forever. Once you are n Jesus Christ you are the sinless perfection hat is required.

Now, justification is settled but we are still down here and messing up all the time. God knew this would be the case - that’s why He had to positionally clear the record for He knew as long as we in these vile bodies we were going to sin – the good news? God took care of those sins already – he had to for how were we going to clear ourselves every time we sinned? By our repentance and confessions? No way – God only accepts what Christ did not anything we can do.

Is sin bad? Yes, ALL SINS ARE TERRIBLE AND AN AFRONT TO A HOLY God. Rom 6:1 what shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Of course not – we should seek, by the power of the Spirit that is now in us to live holy in this wicked world. So, shelb5, you keep telling me I make light of sin and just sweep it under the table. I know what God thinks of sin but I also know how gracious He was to forgive me of my sins already. So, I seek to live right because of what He did for me. When I sin the Spirit in me convicts me brings me to repentance and acknowledging of the sin. Then by the power of the Spirit I seek to not do it again. I confess and acknowledge clearing my conscience before a holy God and restoring my boldness to go to God in prayer again. I DO NOT CONFESS AND REPENT IN ORDER TO GAIN FORGIVENESS OR TO GAIN ENTRANCE INTO HEAVEN FOR I AM ALREADY FORIGVEN, MY STANDING AND POSITION IN CHRIST IS SURE. MY PRESENT AND COMPLETE JUSTIFICATION DOES NOT GIVE ME A LICENSE TO SIN. Can I be any clearer on the matter?

I cannot make it any clearer. I have expounded justification and how God deals with sin as simply as time and space allows. I can do no more. My motive here is not to win a debate but to POINT YOU TO JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY HOPE FOR SALVATION. Salvation is in a person, Jesus Christ, not in our confessions, repentances, works, or acts of contrition.

“So are you saying that a unrepentant sinner will still go to heaven even if he never turns from his sin?”

Yes, for if he is truly a redeemed saint and in Christ he is still going to heaven. He may be miserable on his road to heaven but he is going because of what CHRIST DID AT CALVARY. I know you don’t like that and probably do not believe that but I’ve spent two days showing you from the scriptures that a man is saved by grace through faith and nothing more.

May God bless.