Looks, money and intelligence...

[GrowingSmaller]

Well one would need to establish first that...

1. God is real.
2. God is good.

Before I could answer that first question. However, religion doesn't want you to critically examine those two points. That's why it pushes "faith" above all else...that's why religious faith is self serving.

I get the point 100%.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Ana. I had a "reigious experience" . It one of those Marys room style scenarios. You have to experiece it to know what its like. Just like you cant experience "green" without colour vision, you can't experience the hand of "God" without a bit of kashf.

Kashf

. Ṣūfism. Kashf, (Arabic: “uncovering,” “revelation”), in Sufism (i.e., Islamic mysticism), the privileged inner knowledge that mystics acquire through personal experience and direct vision of God.
http://www.britannica.com/topic/kashf

This also relates to kufr (covering, denial, unbelief). The absence or opposite of kufr is faith (iman). So all faith IMO of like a kashf, if it was faith from unbelief to belief.

Now, we have to look at the quality of iman (faith) - and the consequences of believing actively.

Iman (faith,, belief) stems from the concept of security, confidence and trust. Now, believeing actively, as a Muslim, makes me secure internally and in community. In contrast to the life I used to live its a 'revelation'. To me that establishes a good cause, because the effects are good.

But God allows evil, yet (evil being anti-life, anti-security, anti-trust etc) those who follow it are eventuually doomed.

At least Islam gives me some life skills in a difficult world.

“And whoever is conscious of Allah, He will make for him a way out, And will provide for him from where he does not expect. And whoever relies upon Allah – then He is sufficient for him. Indeed, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Allah has already set for everything a [decreed] extent.” (Quran 65:2-3)

 

[GrowingSmaller]

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[Ana the Ist]

Ana. I had a "reigious experience" . It one of those Marys room style scenarios. You have to experiece it to know what its like. Just like you cant experience "green" without colour vision, you can't experience the hand of "God" without a bit of kashf.



This also relates to kufr (covering, denial, unbelief). The absence or opposite of kufr is faith (iman). So all faith IMO of like a kashf, if it was faith from unbelief to belief.

Now, we have to look at the quality of iman (faith) - and the consequences of believing actively.

Iman (faith,, belief) stems from the concept of security, confidence and trust. Now, believeing actively, as a Muslim, makes me secure internally and in community. In contrast to the life I used to live its a 'revelation'. To me that establishes a good cause, because the effects are good.

But God allows evil, yet (evil being anti-life, anti-security, anti-trust etc) those who follow it are eventuually doomed.

At least Islam gives me some life skills in a difficult world.

“And whoever is conscious of Allah, He will make for him a way out, And will provide for him from where he does not expect. And whoever relies upon Allah – then He is sufficient for him. Indeed, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Allah has already set for everything a [decreed] extent.” (Quran 65:2-3)

I'll respond to this, but I'll need to know what a "Mary's room type experience" is. I've never heard that term before.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Thanks for the time.

Marys room is a thought experiment. Mary IIRC , reads all there is to know from the perspective of the brain, about colour vision. Shes a superscientist. But she lives in a room of black and white objects. What could she know about colours she cant see, except through being let into the outside world, rather than reading a textbook on the topic? I am presuming she cant imagine green etc, or if he can, then she cant identify how the term "green" is to be used from brain wave manuals etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument#Thought_experiment

In Bertrand Russels terms on similar issues, theres theoretical knowledge and knowledge by acquaintance. You may now understand.

Theres theoretical knowledge of faith and religious experience especially, and then theres the experience (or acquaintance) itself. The acquaintance side is not really communicable, which is probably why they call it "mysticism". Which term stems from the root meaning "conceal".

"God has seventy thousand veils of light and darkness; if He were to remove them, the radiant splendors of His Face would burn up whoever (or ‘whatever creature’) was reached by His Gaze"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashf

Whan you have the experience you "know" that "God" is "good". Or, the experience seems to be qualitatively benign in a sense that is beyond ones ordinary capacity to translate into everyday analogies and terms.

But He is aslo so powerful, in the sense that we can stray to our own peril but to his... well.... He is beyond forcing us to be good, and who knows where we will end... even the piuos depend on His mercy and fear when hearing His name.

Theres the famous case of Pascal. Who left the sciences turning towards theology after a mystic experience.

Yada, yada yada. I think God actually appreciates a sense of humor sometimes.


“Fire. God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, not of the philosophers and the scholars. I will not forget thy word. Amen.” - Pascal

 

[SkyWriting]

I live in the UK, a largely secular society, and IIRC in a newspaper article a couple of years ago people thought the 3 most valuable things were wealth, looks and intelligence.

Is the UK largely known for any of those three?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Thanks for the time.

Marys room is a thought experiment. Mary IIRC , reads all there is to know from the perspective of the brain, about colour vision. Shes a superscientist. But she lives in a room of black and white objects. What could she know about colours she cant see, except through being let into the outside world, rather than reading a textbook on the topic? I am presuming she cant imagine green etc, or if he can, then she cant identify how the term "green" is to be used from brain wave manuals etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_argument#Thought_experiment

In Bertrand Russels terms on similar issues, theres theoretical knowledge and knowledge by acquaintance. You may now understand.

Theres theoretical knowledge of faith and religious experience especially, and then theres the experience (or acquaintance) itself. The acquaintance side is not really communicable, which is probably why they call it "mysticism". Which term stems from the root meaning "conceal".

"God has seventy thousand veils of light and darkness; if He were to remove them, the radiant splendors of His Face would burn up whoever (or ‘whatever creature’) was reached by His Gaze"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashf

Whan you have the experience you "know" that "God" is "good". Or, the experience seems to be qualitatively benign in a sense that is beyond ones ordinary capacity to translate into everyday analogies and terms.

But He is aslo so powerful, in the sense that we can stray to our own peril but to his... well.... He is beyond forcing us to be good, and who knows where we will end... even the piuos depend on His mercy and fear when hearing His name.

Theres the famous case of Pascal. Who left the sciences turning towards theology after a mystic experience.

Yada, yada yada. I think God actually appreciates a sense of humor sometimes.


“Fire. God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, not of the philosophers and the scholars. I will not forget thy word. Amen.” - Pascal

Ok...since Mary can at least read about this experience even if she cannot have it....

Lets hear about your experience.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Is the UK largely known for any of those three?

No I dont think so, but I think we're trying... or so it seems.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Ana I has a visionary style experience after praying, there was all kinds of context, which I feel vulnerable about so I dont want to go into detail. But I prayed, and a lightning storm formed, and it seemed like God was talking through its effects of my conscinece. Synchronicities and apparent spiritual presence etc.

My heart was touched by the light, so to speak. But also the guiding force behind it.. I went to church the next day (and I was h/c atheist until then, I really never went to church) and the scripture reading was about healing of the blind man in the NT. It really fit in with my experience. Also there was another reading which I forget. That neatly fit in too.

Later I askesd a Catholic priest and he said he believes things like than can happen. I think they call it "private revelation" or something. Obviously maybe I ought not be sharing it, if its personal to me and not for the public good etc.

I had actually been at a b&b, but the room I had the vision in (at a friends house), I had been there a couple of weeks before...and there was a real big flash of lighning just outside the window. I felt scared and thought "God is trying to tell me something" - which was relaly odd for me, although I was becoming more open to "repent and believe" logic. Because I was an atheist.

ALso I developed psychosis. I chatted wirth a psychologist about the "vision" and she said in ther UK were open to that kind of thing being "saintly" or whatever - we're a religiously tolerant society. In an h/c atheist state it would just be written off.

The day after the vision I actually felt like shrowding myself, because the workld outside now seemedso sinful and sinister. I had been given "spiritual eyes" accoding to one of the scripture readiongs, and I was now on a new plane of awareness compared to my former self.

MAybe it was illusion, a wierd "paranormal" fluctuation, a set of odd coincidences.

AV-VET (sp?) has a good attitude. Even if atheists witnessed miracles they may still not belive. It takes faith to believe...

 

[GrowingSmaller]

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[GrowingSmaller]

So anyway. Whats best in terms off the global ecomomy. I am thinking that massive disparities are not helpful, not only socially and in terms of justice, but also economically is it good to have a plate of rice costing $3 in amreca and 5 cents in Africa (as a guestimate).

In the West people complain of having to work so hard to support their families. In Africa India and ther Muslim world, peope seem to be having more children but have less money. IIRC. How is it that the rich can't even afford families anymore? Is the "bubble" bursting?

Especially in a globalised market. In a sectioned off ecosystem there can be "isolation" of lifeforms. But if were all on the same turf some of the big beasts may become dinosaurs.