Looking For The Scriptural Church

[1watchman]

Here is the question, I believe, we should all be considering as to a church fellowship.
- 1 Watchman

LOOKING FOR A CHURCH?
Commentary By R. DeWitt, 11/10​

There is no where to look except to God and His Word to find the Church. The truth is that there is only one church ---all true believers are in it, so real "born again" saints should not speak about finding the right church, rather finding the expression and fellowship of the church. It is shown plainly in Acts 2 and the Epistles, but most professing Christians are not studying the Word, and are looking for some innovations that will make a local fellowship pleasing to them and their interests. That is a wrong spirit! Let us not pervert God's testimony in the world, or join or start something we prefer, but be in submission and learn to conform to the mind of God.

If one means to say: I want to find the scriptural expression of the church in the world, which is apart from traditions and man’s innovations, that will open the way to be helped to find what God has given us. God has said: "...ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart" (Jer. 29:13). That means to know God and His mind for us.

Some of us believe we have found what God intended for the church, and if we are wrong we can be corrected (if we are honest, not looking to man, not holding our own ideas, and are crying to the Lord to teach us and keep us from going astray). Are we willing to be honest and open to God's leading, or are we satisfied with what pleases us and refuse to look any further?

For me, I have been settled and happy in a worldwide and very scriptural fellowship for over 40 years, that appears in every way to me to be what God has intended for mankind. If one can show me why it is wrong and not according to God's Word, I would be ready to leave and go where God shows to be the truth. Where is that? Truly not everywhere, for “God is not the Author of confusion”, as He says, and speaks of “Unity of the faith” and “no schism” in the body. After 50 plus years as a believer, I have not seen anything more true to the Word than what I have found. Can we all honestly say that before God? If one is still unclear, is it not time to "search the Scripture" and be down before God in much prayer? One can see a picture of God’s fellowship in the world by contacting a sound Bible publishing house (see www.bibletruthpublishers.com , which is a place of sound ministry by esteemed Bible teachers over 100 years with literature and guidance).


I am not judging anyone, but calling all real Christians to be open and honest. Do we all want to walk in unity? The universal church must be fully scriptural and with no additions and innovations or deletions. All the various Christian religions and sects I see are man-made with rituals, ceremonies, traditions, programs, entertainment, ideas and innovations; and they are sectarian by ignoring the Word of God.

The great heresy today in Christendom is to hold and say that God wants us to "go to the church of our choice", which I am convinced is a lie of Satan. There is no church of our choice in Holy Scripture. It is divisive of God's one testimony of the "one body", dishonoring Him, and shows a determination to do what pleases self. A faithful believer surely should not think that way.

Well, surely "the time is short", as God says, so we need to be on the right pathway as we walk with the Lord Jesus home to Heaven. We will then receive the commendation: "Well done, good and faithful servant". –RLD: from biblecounsel.homestead.com.

ADDENDUM: One cannot help but wonder what a real “born again” believer in Christ reading here, would choose to do if led to a truly scriptural gathering in the world. Would he/she be willing to leave the sect they are associated with to gather on scriptural ground? Judging from many conversations it appears most of them would not want it, for they prefer their own innovations that please them where their friends are, and with their personal comfort and reasoning. Many voices have stated there is no such thing as a scriptural fellowship in the world, and all we have is the various sects of our individual choices. This seems so very sad, especially when we consider all Christians must stand at the “Judgment Seat of Christ” in Heaven and give account. -RLD

 

[Albion]

LOOKING FOR A CHURCH?

Commentary By R. DeWitt, 11/10​

There is no where to look except to God and His Word to find the Church. The truth is that there is only one church ---all true believers are in it...

After 50 plus years as a believer, I have not seen anything more true to the Word than what I have found. Can we all honestly say that before God?..

For me, I have been settled and happy in a worldwide and very scriptural fellowship for over 40 years, that appears in every way to me to be what God has intended for mankind...

I am not judging anyone, but calling all real Christians to be open and honest. Do we all want to walk in unity? The universal church must be fully scriptural and with no additions and innovations or deletions. All the various Christian religions and sects I see are man-made with rituals, ceremonies, traditions, programs, entertainment, ideas and innovations; and they are sectarian by ignoring the Word of God...

ADDENDUM: One cannot help but wonder what a real “born again” believer in Christ reading here, would choose to do if led to a truly scriptural gathering in the world. Would he/she be willing to leave the sect they are associated with to gather on scriptural ground? Judging from many conversations it appears most of them would not want it, for they prefer their own innovations that please them where their friends are, and with their personal comfort and reasoning....

So, the meaning is this--just join whatever church the writer belongs to? Not exactly a "breakthrough" message, is it?

 

[1watchman]

That is grossly missing the point about bowing to the Word of God, and the unity God has shown us in conformity to His Word. It seems to be a protest to keep on with sectarianism and the comforts one finds there. I don't think God will applaud that.

 

[Albion]

That is grossly missing the point about bowing to the Word of God, and the unity God has shown us in conformity to His Word.

Others may well feel differently, but I thought this was only a small part of the message you posted for us.

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

This has really helped confirm my conviction that the scriptural and most accurate church to the Bible really is Presbyterian/Reformed. Thank you.

 

[1watchman]

If you really believe in denominationalism and are settled with that, it is alright with me. I am no judge of anyone, but I do think one should judge the systems of men and seek the "unity of the faith" in God's universal testimony in the world.

I posted a sound paper on this thread, and I also saw there some ref. above where one can get answers; and Bible Truth Publishers is a very old and sound publishing house with much ministry from Bible teachers for over 100 years that is worth considering. Look up always, and God bless us all!

 

[mrjerseys]

I posted a sound paper on this thread, and I also saw there some ref.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If you really believe in denominationalism and are settled with that, it is alright with me. I am no judge of anyone, but I do think one should judge the systems of men and seek the "unity of the faith" in God's universal testimony in the world.

I posted a sound paper on this thread, and I also saw there some ref. above where one can get answers; and Bible Truth Publishers is a very old and sound publishing house with much ministry from Bible teachers for over 100 years that is worth considering. Look up always, and God bless us all!

According to the article, the apostolic churches, those which claim apostolic foundation, would be closest to what God had in mind, because they all look to the apostles to show us the Church of Jesus. The one church, which is not denominationalist.

 

[1watchman]

There are no "apostolic churches" today. The Apostles are gone, and the church order and guidance has been committed to the local assemblies and the Elders (see sound Bibles, rather than ideas of religionists). God places Elders as overseers (bishops) in local assemblies of the Church today, who are given the charge to apply the Apostles' teachings, and to maintain the testimony as shown in Acts 2 and the Epistles. There is no hierarchy in the New Testament Church.

 

[Trogool]

There are no "apostolic churches" today. The Apostles are gone, and the church order and guidance has been committed to the local assemblies and the Elders (see sound Bibles, rather than ideas of religionists). God places Elders as overseers (bishops) in local assemblies of the Church today, who are given the charge to apply the Apostles' teachings, and to maintain the testimony as shown in Acts 2 and the Epistles. There is no hierarchy in the New Testament Church.

Lulz, that makes no sense.

 

[Albion]

There are no "apostolic churches" today....God places Elders as overseers (bishops) in local assemblies of the Church today, who are given the charge to apply the Apostles' teachings, and to maintain the testimony as shown in Acts 2 and the Epistles.

Well, that's a pretty good definition of the meaning of "Apostolic Church."

 

[1watchman]

Well, I suppose that depends on how one looks at it. I have never thought of the Church as "Apostolic Church"; rather, the "Church of God" as God designates it.

I think the reference to the Church as the "Apostolic Church" must be the denominational designation to differentiate from other denoms. who don't follow the Apostles' teachings (which I see as true of most denoms.).

Since some of us do not accept denominations as true to the Word of God, I view The Church as that which God established through direction to the Apostles, and there is only one true and faithful testimony to that, which is by the Word of God ---thus, no sects are considered. It is the Church of God (not the so-called denomination by that name) so I have not considered a so-called "Apostolic Church" as existing, since they did not set forth their ideas, but God's work.

This may seem like a technicality to some, but when we get home to Heaven we will all have to answer for perverting and corrupting God's pure testimony in the world, I believe. I truly want to be on scriptural ground.

 

[Albion]

We have a definition established for this forum. That's all that matters here, even though there are two popular meanings given for the term "Apostolic" -- belief that's in accord with the Twelve OR churches whose polity is the historic Episcopate. But as I noted, this forum takes the second POV.

 

[SirWalter]

The elders or bishops are not the ones who pass along the knowledge of the teachings of Christ, but only the book God put into our hands and the Holy Spirit God puts into our hearts. Using purely scripture as my guide, as I have very little church influence, it became clear that the true church follows the scriptures for what they say and nothing else. The truth is in God and God's inspired book, not tradition or the councils of corruptible men.

Reading scripture growing up certainly did not lead me to the pagan concepts of the trinity and what not, it lead to the Father as God and the Son the mediator between man and God, through whom God created the world but not the ultimate and true God himself. As it is written, "God is not a God of confusion." What is more trustworthy? The teachings of the bible or those of men? I put my trust in God's scripture. I hope you choose to as well.

God Bless,
Keelan

 

[TobyMacFanz]

The real church is the one that Christ promised: he will build HIS church, said it will be one as he is one, and one that will be here forever and the gates of Hades will not overthrow it. At that same time, he gave the keys to Peter, and he gives apostolic authority to the apostles before his departure. He even says "Make NEW disciples (students)" before departing. If all of this is true, HIS church must exist from his time 33 A.D. to now. It couldn't fade out, because he said it will be with us forever. Dismiss these people that say the apostolic church is faded and gone. Christ says different, and the succession of the apostles stays evident to this day <staff edit>

Rebuke Satan and his division done in the hands of his followers. God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Albion]

The real church is the one that Christ promised: he will build his church, said it will be one as he is one, and one that will be here forever and the gates of Hades will not overthrow it. If he was true, it must exist from his time 33 A.D. to now. It couldn't fade out, because he said it will be with us forever. Take a look at this church time line chart.

It exists and is called Christianity.

 

[TobyMacFanz]

It's surely Christianity, but as a church they are the Catholic (meaning universal) church. Even St. Ignatius, student of St. John the apostle, calls it the Catholic church, one in Christ and one in the Eucharist. Paul even gives the roles of the church as bishop, presbyter, and deacon. Sounding structural yet? Ignatius was a bishop appointed by Peter. Today, there are 30,000 protestant denominations and rising, and they have no bishop, but they follow false teachers outside of the bishop. This is not one, and Christ said his church would be one (John 17:22). You have a different mindset than what the apostles and early church fathers had. Look at the site above and you'll get a better understanding. This is a vast protestant belief that was quite novice in the 1600th century, but it doesn't hold any ground.

Another thing we don't reason enough with is that Christ was teaching and saving people, but that was all before he said he was going to build his church when giving the keys to Peter. He said "You are Rock [means Peter], and on this rock I will build my church." Building the church was to take place after his time teaching and saving the people. Still, we are the church, but Christ had plans for a structural church because he tells his apostles to make new disciples, and he hands over apostolic authority, and just after, he says to forgive and retain sins (confession), etc. etc. I can go on and on, but my site should be enough.

I was like you as a protestant, and I left after 30 years. Good luck on your reading and faith journey!

 

[Albion]

It's surely Christianity, but as a church they are the Catholic (meaning universal) church. Even St. Ignatius, student of St. John the apostle, calls it the Catholic church, one in Christ and one in the Eucharist.

Yes, but there was no denomination by the name at that time. For Ignatious, the word meant, as we all know, "universal" or "authentic." We have various denominations today that have included the words "One" or "Holy" or "Apostolic" into their official and legal names, but no one considers them to be the only church bodies to be holy or Apostolic, etc. for that reason. So also "catholic." And we know from the NT that the early followers were called "Christians."

Paul even gives the roles of the church as bishop, presbyter, and deacon. Sounding structural yet? Ignatius was a bishop appointed by Peter. Today, there are 30,000 protestant denominations and rising, and they have no bishop,

A number of them do have bishops, so if you don't know your subject, don't venture there

Christ said his church would be one (John 17:22).

All who have a relationship with the Lord are part of his church.

You have a different mindset than what the apostles and early church fathers had.

Well, it looks like you've descended into nothing but a denominational rant and are not even speaking to the thread's topic anymore, so I'll stop here.

 

[1watchman]

One spoke of the "Apostolic Church" here, and that is true IF one is speaking of the apostolic church and not a sect of men called Apostolic Church. Actually, the Church of God, as shown in Scripture is without a name, and is such as Matt. 18:20 and 1 Cor. 12:25. We need to seek the "unity of the faith" as God enjoins us and not be seeking a place that pleases our flesh.

Whenever man adds his ideas, ceremonies, rituals, hierarchy, entertainment, etc. he is corrupting God's testimony. This is why I often visit the fundamental ministry at the BibleCounsel site.

 

[Albion]

One spoke of the "Apostolic Church" here, and that is true IF one is speaking of the apostolic church and not a sect of men called Apostolic Church. Actually, the Church of God, as shown in Scripture is without a name, and is such as Matt. 18:20 and 1 Cor. 12:25. We need to seek the "unity of the faith" as God enjoins us and not be seeking a place that pleases our flesh.

Whenever man adds his ideas, ceremonies, rituals, hierarchy, entertainment, etc. he is corrupting God's testimony. This is why I often visit the fundamental ministry at the BibleCounsel site.

Would that comply with the NT admonition to forsake not assembling together with other Christians...or would it take a local congregation for that?