Longhairs required proof of the anti-meat pledge

NightEternal

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Longhair has PM'd me and asked me to provide proof of the anti-meat pledge letter to Daniells which I alluded to in my reported post.

http://www.ex-sda.com/experience_numbers.htm

In the 1890s after a lapse of several decades Mrs. White once again enthusiastically embraced health reform and vegetarianism, and she suggested to the President of the General Conference that Seventh-day Adventists now begin to circulate an anti-meat pledge analogous to the temperance pledge that had gone over so well in the church. Daniells, who had just returned from Europe, responded that this would be impractical, that such a device would undoubtedly split the church in two, and that certainly before circulating an anti-meat pledge we would want to embark on an educational campaign. Mrs. White subsequently backed down from this and at the next session of the General Conference endorsed Elder A. G. Daniells' view of things.

"Now," Arthur White said to me, "It would be very difficult for us to release this document to you because there are still some vegetarians in the church, primarily on the right wing, who would want to impose this upon the rest of us, and we could not allow this; so I am afraid you will not be able to quote it."

http://millennium.fortunecity.com/li...66/jezebel.htm

Did the fledgling Seventh-day Adventist Church, under the guidance of Ellen White's visions, command abstention from meats? Indeed it did!
  • The health ideas of the White Party did not come to be clearly expressed until 1860 and the formation of the Seventh Day Adventist church. They too were BASED UPON VISIONS ("testimonies") and were RIGIDLY STRESSED, at least in the early days of the movement.
  • Mrs. White's visions gave "positive testimony against...FLESH-MEATS...." -- History of the Seventh Day Church of God, by Richard C. Nickels. 1988, p.l5.
Ronald L. Numbers verifies this in his book:
  • Now that she was once again in the vegetarian fold, Ellen White joined Dr. Kellogg in fighting the apathy and hostility that many felt toward dieting reform...Her plans for reviving health reforms was the so-called ANTIMEAT PLEDGE, modeled after those used in the temperance work. In a March 29, 1908, letter to Elder A.G. Daniells, then president of the General Conference, she urged that a pledge be circulated requiring TOTAL ABSTINENCE from "FLESH MEATS," tea, and coffee, and all injurious foods."...In 1872 she wrote: We bear positive testimony against tobacco, spirituous liquors, snuff, tea, coffee, FLESH-MEATS, butter, spices, rich cakes, mince pies, a large amount of salt, and all exciting substances used as articles of food. -- Prophetess of Health: A Study of Ellen G. White. Pages 173, 175.
http://www.ellenwhite.org/secrets2.htm

A second document that was not released was a passage from W-11-1873 mentioning John Harvey Kellogg's view of James White as a monomaniac on money matters. And a third one was D-162-1908 regarding Ellen White's anti-meat pledge. I guess I should correct myself. I had attributed that to the 1890's. It was the next decade.

While the actual letter to Daniells does not seem to be available online, I did read a copy of it in the archives of the library where I went to college. It does exist. Nevertheless, Ron Numbers discusses it in his book Prophetess Of Health which has been sourced above.

The reason for it's unavailablity to the general SDA public might have something to do with the potential for abuse by the more fanatical vegetarians in our church, as Arthur White surmises:

"Now," Arthur White said to me, "It would be very difficult for us to release this document to you because there are still some vegetarians in the church, primarily on the right wing, who would want to impose this upon the rest of us, and we could not allow this; so I am afraid you will not be able to quote it."

I mistakenly assumed most seasoned SDA's here knew about this pledge. I guess I was wrong.
 

NightEternal

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Longhair wanted sources that verify the pledge letter actually did take place. I have done that. It doesn't matter what the sources are Trust, the point is that proof has been provided.

BTW, Ron Numbers is an excellent researcher who is NOT anti-Adventist. Do you even know who he is and his background? Have you even read Prophetess Of Health? If not, I suggest you do before you comment.
 
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NightEternal

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You people amaze me. You are actually denying what many in the church have known about for years.

The pledge letter happened Trust. It was an actual historical occurence. You are going to be eating crow when you finally verify that it did happen.

I already explained why the letter to Daniells is not available online.

So, since people here insist on calling my integrity into question and implying I am a liar, I am done with this thread.

I don't need this garbage.

Longhair, you have your sources. My work is done.
 
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O

OntheDL

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You people amaze me. You are actually denying what many in the church have known about for years.

The pledge happened Trust. It was an actual historical occurence. You are going to be eating crow when you finally verify that it did happen.

I already explained why the letetr to Daniells is not available online.

So, since people here insist on calling my integrity into question and implying I am a liar, I am done with this thread.

I don't need this garbage.

Longhair, you have your sources. My work is done.

Wow, night withdrew himself from an argument! :D

Do you have a SDA official doc or an actual EGW quote other than the hear-say stuff?

I also have a bridge in NY to sell, any takers? :cool:
 
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TrustAndObey

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Night said:
Because really, that is where all of this hostility and bigotry towards meat-eaters comes from, isn't it? EGW. She is the culprit.

MVA's thread started out really nice and he didn't tell anyone they HAD to become vegetarian. The hostility didn't come from vegetarians Night....and more importantly, you referred to a dead woman that I've never read as "the culprit" for my hostility? Where was my hostility in that thread? (I am not the one that reported you btw).

I made a personal choice and I DO feel convicted by the Holy Spirit not to eat meat. That's my choice, and my comments in MVA's thread never once said I felt everybody should be vegetarian for religious reasons. I am, but that's me.

Do I think it affects your mental clarity, therefore spiritually? Yes, I do...for ME. I know the difference in mental clarity from when I was eating meat and when I'm not.

It's really not that big of a deal, but you made it one, and then insulted EGW. It was uncalled for.

Nothing she did or didn't do has made me feel hostile toward meat-eaters. I just personally cannot understand how people do it, and I commented that if we had to kill the animals ourselves there would be a LOT more vegetarians in the world.

That's all.
 
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djconklin

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Mrs. White subsequently backed down from this and at the next session of the General Conference endorsed Elder A. G. Daniells' view of things.

Interesting that this was completely ignored. Hard to gore someone's ox when the facts get in the way.

Ron Numbers is an excellent researcher who is NOT anti-Adventist.

Even a good researcher knows enough to set aside one's pre-concieved opinions before investigating something. Numbers was anti-supernaturalist when he started his study--he is quite open about it and admits it. Those who don't like to hear such unpleasantness ignore it.
 
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JonMiller

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Honestly, it is obvious that none of that is sinful... as Christ consumed at least some of the mentioned things.

The issue is that while health is good and imporant, it isn't a 'salvation issue' or even a sin. What it is is a blessing that can lead to a happier (because healthier) life.

And that includes alcohol and other drugs.

JM
 
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OntheDL

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Here is an actual verifiable quote from EGW:

[Ellen G. White speaking:] "Sister White has not had meat in her house or cooked it in any line, or any dead flesh, for years and years. And here is the [basis of some people's] health reform: `Now I have told you Sister White did not eat meat. Now I want you not to eat meat, because Sister White does not eat it.' "Well, I would not give--I would not care a farthing for anything like that. If you have not got any better conviction--you won't eat meat because Sister White does not eat any--if I am the authority, I would not give a farthing for your health reform. "What I want is that every one of you should stand in your individual dignity before God, in your individual consecration to God, that the soul-temple shall be dedicated to God. `Whosoever defileth the temple of God, him will God destroy.' Now I want you to think of these things, and do not make any human being your criterion." ---Ms 43a, 1901, p. 13. ("Talk of Mrs. E. G. White, Before Representative Brethren, in the [Battle Creek] College Library, April 1, 1901.)---Released June 21, 1978. {8MR 350.1}
 
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