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Logical Problems with Calvinism

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For those who subscribe to the idea that Christ only died for the sins up to one's faith in Christ, and after that, all sin must be confessed and forsaken, otherwise they lose their salvation.

Heb 10:10 - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Greek word for "once for all" - ephapax
1) once, at once
1a) all at once
1b) once for all

The word for "have been made holy " is a perfect passive participle. Perfect tense means occurrence in the past with PRESENT results. ie, once "made holy" we continue to be holy.

Greek word for "holy" is: hagiazō
1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
2a) consecrate things to God
2b) dedicate people to God
3) to purify
3a) to cleanse externally
3b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
3c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

When one believes in Christ, they are sanctified or dedicated/consecrated/purified internally to God.

So, the notion that sin separates the one already sanctified/purified/etc for eternal death is nonsense.

So, let's continue to examine the Truth:
v.12 - But when this priest (Christ) had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

Greek word for "for all time" is: diēnekes
1) continuously, continuous

My Interlinear Bible renders the word "in perpetuity". My lexicon renders the word "extended, prolonged, continuous, perpetually".

So v.12 shows that Christ's sacrifice continues perpetually.

v.18 - And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.

Quite clear; Christ's sacrifice covers all sin. Not just sin up to when one believes.

This is specifically addressed by John the baptist in Jn 1:29, when he said - "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

If Christ's death covers ONLY sins up to the time of faith in Christ, then John's comment is quite wrong. He should and would have said that the Lamb of God takes away some of the sin of the world.

It should be clear that Christ's sacrifice on the cross covers all sins of all people for all time.
And... you have to keep reading. Hebrews 10:26 and Hebrews 10:38 refute such a notion that one can sin and still be saved. I mean, stop and think for a moment. Why on Earth would God condone a believer's sin today? Did He ever condone anyone's sin in the Bible? Did God condone Adam's sin? No. And that was just one sin (Which led to the fall of mankind).


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sdowney717

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Gen 33
4But Esau ran to meet Jacob and embraced him; he threw his arms around his neck and kissed him. And they wept. 5Then Esau looked up and saw the women and children. “Who are these with you?” he asked.

Jacob answered, “They are the children God has graciously given your servant.”

6Then the female servants and their children approached and bowed down. 7Next, Leah and her children came and bowed down. Last of all came Joseph and Rachel, and they too bowed down.

8Esau asked, “What’s the meaning of all these flocks and herds I met?”

“To find favor in your eyes, my lord,” he said.

9But Esau said, “I already have plenty, my brother. Keep what you have for yourself.”

10“No, please!” said Jacob. “If I have found favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me. For to see your face is like seeing the face of God, now that you have received me favorably. 11Please accept the present that was brought to you, for God has been gracious to me and I have all I need.” And because Jacob insisted, Esau accepted it.

12Then Esau said, “Let us be on our way; I’ll accompany you.”

13But Jacob said to him, “My lord knows that the children are tender and that I must care for the ewes and cows that are nursing their young. If they are driven hard just one day, all the animals will die. 14So let my lord go on ahead of his servant, while I move along slowly at the pace of the flocks and herds before me and the pace of the children, until I come to my lord in Seir.”

15Esau said, “Then let me leave some of my men with you.”
Since you reject God's word on Esau being a profane man, your opinion is of this earth and devilish wisdom, not the wisdom that comes from above where God is in heaven.

When a mans ways please the LORD, HE makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. That is all that happened between Esau and Jacob.
 
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Even though you don't admit that you will continue to sin, you've already admitted that you still do. So what's the difference?

No. I am not admitting that I am still a slave to sin in any way. My life is not characterized by my past in Christ if I confessed those sins and honestly forsaked them. Also, I do not live in sin day in and day out those types of sins that Paul talks about that will cause one not to inherit the Kingdom of God, either. I am also confident that even today, God will forever give me the victory, too.

God has the power to conquer sin in a person's life. God can give the believer the victory.

And, should you ever actually achieve sinless perfection,

Jesus said to "sin no more." But you look to texts outside our own language to defend the idea that Jesus really did not say that.

THEN 1 Jn 1:8 will DIRECTLY refute your claim.

And you have to ignore 1 John 2:4 in order to make your wrong interpretation on 1 John 1:8 to be true.

Sure you've really thought all this stuff through?

There is no contradiction in what I believe the Bible to say on Soteriology. There is only contradiction in OSAS because you have to ignore many verses in order to make it work.

Why do you continue to persist this all these LIES? No one thinks it's OK with God when we sin. No one. So STOP making up these LIES.

Again, this is what I am talking about in my previous posts. You are making it personal and you are trying to falsely slander me and say that I am lying when I do not believe that to be the case at all. I am willing to die for my belief in Christ and my beliefs in the Bible.


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Thursday

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Since you reject God's word on Esau being a profane man, your opinion is of this earth and devilish wisdom, not the wisdom that comes from above where God is in heaven.

When a mans ways please the LORD, HE makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. That is all the happened between Esau and Jacob.


You are the one rejecting God's word.

Romans 2
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 15
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
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Folks also need to read 2 Timothy 3:1-9 really closely. They have to ask if their life is anything like what is described in that passage. Now, I am not suggesting folks are doing ALL those things on that list of bad things. What I am saying is that it only takes one sin for a person to commit on that list to be categorized amongst that group. In fact, these individuals are listed as having a FORM of GODLINESS. So these people could appear to be living righteously or godly but they really are not.


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sdowney717

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You are the one rejecting God's word.

Romans 2
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 15
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Scripture can not be broken, yet you attempt to break scripture by your words as does Satan which simply shows who your allegiance is towards.
However the Word discovers your condition since you speak contrary to Christ and Scripture which are God breathed words. Your opinion of Esau as a man of God is contrary to God's and you must be a deceiver since you refuse to change your mind.
So I have no doubt much else of what you believe is also a deception.
 
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Thursday

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Scripture can not be broken, yet you attempt to break scripture by your words as does Satan which simply shows who your allegiance is towards.
However the Word discovers your condition.


You are the one ignoring the crystal clear words of scripture and inserting your own man made dogma.
 
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Scripture can not be broken, yet you attempt to break scripture by your words as does Satan which simply shows who your allegiance is towards.
However the Word discovers your condition since you speak contrary to Christ and Scripture which are God breathed words. Your opinion of Esau as a man of God is contrary to God's and you must be a deceiver since you refuse to change your mind.
So I have no doubt much else of what you believe is also a deception.
While I do not believe or support Catholicism as being biblical (i.e. I am technically not on the same side as our friend "Thursday" here), the Scriptures do say that he that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8); And the Scriptures are clear that salvation is conditional. For if it was not then there would be no such thing as an unforgivable sin. This unforgivable sin is speaking bad against the Spirit. That type of sin can never be forgiven in this world or even in the next world to come (i.e. the Millennium).


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ToBeLoved

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Folks also need to read 2 Timothy 3:1-9 really closely. They have to ask if their life is anything like what is described in that passage.


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Why should we do that?

So many of the verses you have presented alone, that when they have been presented to you in context have been disproved. So why would we trust you judgement? The big issue that I have with the way that you present God's Word is that when we have presented the verses with insight into the spiritual side, you have consistantly rejected any spiritual context for a cut and dry opinion about sin.

However, God does not look at sin to be the end all, be all that you propose. Because both of the commandments that Jesus gave us to fulfill all of the law are about love and spiritual things. If sin could keep us from heaven, I GUARANTEE you Jesus would have put it in one of the commandements that fulfill all of the law.

Jesus did not come here to die for sin and to reconcile us back to God, FORGIVING sin to leave us out in the cold as you state with our salvation resting on sin.

You also convieniently forget about the seal of the Holy Spirit that each of Christ's children receives and the only way that this covenant could be broken (and God DOES NOT break covenants, but just an example to you) would be to take the indwelling Holy Spirit away. Your concept is proven so incorrect by each person here that is in covenant with God through the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is obvious to me that the folks here are being led by God's Spirit, and only you can not explain how this would work.

Over and over people have presented this to you, but you do not have an answer. So why should we think that your judgement is good on any verses when you cannot prove the main concept of your theology that sin can take away salvation?

What has been done is that people spend so much time refuting the list of your verses that we go down a rabbit hole wtih your doctrine.

I would like to hear once and for all with your best verses and explanation how you think God breaks His covenant with man, which is sacred. God is holy. A coveenant is the highest agreement that one can have with God.

So give me your best.
 
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Why should we do that?

So many of the verses you have presented alone, that when they have been presented to you in context have been disproved. So why would we trust you judgement? The big issue that I have with the way that you present God's Word is that when we have presented the verses with insight into the spiritual side, you have consistantly rejected any spiritual context for a cut and dry opinion about sin.

However, God does not look at sin to be the end all, be all that you propose. Because both of the commandments that Jesus gave us to fulfill all of the law are about love and spiritual things. If sin could keep us from heaven, I GUARANTEE you Jesus would have put it in one of the commandements that fulfill all of the law.

Jesus did not come here to die for sin and to reconcile us back to God, FORGIVING sin to leave us out in the cold as you state with our salvation resting on sin.

You also convieniently forget about the seal of the Holy Spirit that each of Christ's children receives and the only way that this covenant could be broken (and God DOES NOT break covenants, but just an example to you) would be to take the indwelling Holy Spirit away. Your concept is proven so incorrect by each person here that is in covenant with God through the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is obvious to me that the folks here are being led by God's Spirit, and only you can not explain how this would work.

Over and over people have presented this to you, but you do not have an answer. So why should we think that your judgement is good on any verses when you cannot prove the main concept of your theology that sin can take away salvation?

What has been done is that people spend so much time refuting the list of your verses that we go down a rabbit hole wtih your doctrine.

I would like to hear once and for all with your best verses and explanation how you think God breaks His covenant with man, which is sacred. God is holy. A coveenant is the highest agreement that one can have with God.

So give me your best.
I do not want you to trust my opinion. I want you to check the Scriptures that I showed you and plainly read them for what they say and compare Scripture with Scripture. I am not above the Word of God. The Word of God is true despite what anyone here says. The key to understanding is in knowing God and in having a pure heart (whereby one will always want to do good no matter what).

In other words, read the passage for yourself and verify what it says. Does it say that in the last days perilous times will come? Yes. Does it talk about how these people in the last days will have certain sins in their life and yet they have a form of Godliness? Yes. So when I read this, it is very clear that this is a way of telling me how to spot the real believers from those who are not. For...

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate"
(Titus 1:16).


...
 
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Thursday

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I would like to hear once and for all with your best verses and explanation how you think God breaks His covenant with man, which is sacred. God is holy. A coveenant is the highest agreement that one can have with God.

So give me your best.

2 Chron 15:2
The LORD will stay with you as long as you stay with him! Whenever you seek him, you will find him. But if you abandon him, he will abandon you.

1 Tim 1:19
Cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences; as a result, their faith has been shipwrecked.
 
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sdowney717

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Thursday says Esau was a godly man of God, so let us see what God's breathed scripture says about Esau's condition.
Profane Esau at work.

A man who marries outside of God's people taking gentile wives, unlike Abraham who insisted that his servant go and get a bride for Isaac from among his own people.

Genesis 26:34-46
34 When Esau was forty years old, he took as wives Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Basemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. 35 And they were a grief of mind to Isaac and Rebekah.
46 And Rebekah said to Isaac, “I am weary of my life because of the daughters of Heth".

A hater of his brother and a murderer in his heart.
41 So Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father blessed him, and Esau said in his heart, “The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then I will kill my brother Jacob.”

God's judgement on Esau - Edom is a total purging destruction so there will exist not a single survivor, all are to be killed.
Obadiah 1:18
The house of Jacob shall be a fire, And the house of Joseph a flame; But the house of Esau shall be stubble; They shall kindle them and devour them, And no survivor shall remain of the house of Esau,” For the Lord has spoken.

Malachi 1:2
[ Israel Beloved of God ] “I have loved you,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord. “Yet Jacob I have loved;

Malachi 1:3
But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”

Hebrews 12:16
lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
Esau was a fornicato
 
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Thursday

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Thursday says Esau was a godly man of God, so let us see what God's breathed scripture says about Esau's condition.
Profane Esau at work.

A man who marries outside of God's people taking gentile wives, unlike Abraham who insisted Eleazer get bride for Isaac from among his people.

Genesis 26:34-46
34 When Esau was forty years old, he took as wives Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Basemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. 35 And they were a grief of mind to Isaac and Rebekah.
46 And Rebekah said to Isaac, “I am weary of my life because of the daughters of Heth".

A hater of his brother and a murderer in his heart.
41 So Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father blessed him, and Esau said in his heart, “The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then I will kill my brother Jacob.”

God's judgement on Esau - Edom is a total purging destruction so there will exist not a single survivor, all are to be killed.
Obadiah 1:18
The house of Jacob shall be a fire, And the house of Joseph a flame; But the house of Esau shall be stubble; They shall kindle them and devour them, And no survivor shall remain of the house of Esau,” For the Lord has spoken.

Malachi 1:2
[ Israel Beloved of God ] “I have loved you,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord. “Yet Jacob I have loved;

Malachi 1:3
But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”

Hebrews 12:16
lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.


Esau welcomed his brother and offered him assistance when he needed it. He hugged him and welcomed his family.

He did not hate his brother. They were reconciled in the end.

You are taking passages out of context.


Why don't you address the verses I posted which prove that your dogma is man made and not biblical?



Romans 2
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 15
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
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sdowney717

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Esau also departs from the people of God going into the mountains. In the OT, when someone departed in this way they were separating themselves form God. Esau being profane (common), was a purely natural man, He took foreign wives, aftewards, Esau has no part in the blessing of God's people and all Esau's descendants were destined for destruction. Who did God appear to and bless? Jacob, not Esau.

Esau also was not granted repentance with God. Esau was REJECTED and found no repentance, even though Esau cries, God is not moved in His judgement between Esau and Jacob, since He has already determined before their birth whom each will be, that His calling according to election will stand. And that can not be changed by men.
.
Hebrews 12
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;
16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.


Esau took his wives from among the canaanites. So you know Esau was profane, an ungodly person.
Genesis 36:2
Esau took his wives from the daughters of Canaan: Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite; Aholibamah the daughter of Anah, the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;

Esau then departs finally away from Jacob and the blessing of God, since Esau was a profane person, he departs away from those God has blessed, which is Jacob to be known as Israel.

Genesis 36:6
Then Esau took his wives, his sons, his daughters, and all the persons of his household, his cattle and all his animals, and all his goods which he had gained in the land of Canaan, and went to a country away from the presence of his brother Jacob.

Genesis 36:8
So Esau dwelt in Mount Seir. Esau is Edom.
 
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Thursday

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Logical Problems with Calvinism:


Romans 2
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 15
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
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GillDouglas

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Logical Problems with Calvinism:


Romans 2
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 15
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Two can play at that game. Logical problems with Catholicism:

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

"Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Revelation 19:10)

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words." (Matthew 6:7)

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth." (1 Timothy 4:1-3)
 
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Marvin Knox

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Logical Problems with Calvinism:

Romans 2
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 15
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
There are no problems which those verses present for Calvinism that would make Calvinism's statement about unconditional election illogical. (That particular point is the one you have been focusing on as I remember it.)

These verses talk about how God deals with men's actions. These people could be either believers or unbelievers and still be dealt with the same. In that regard - God is not a respecter of persons.

These verses say absolutely nothing about God's prior considerations in choosing which person so dealt with will be a believer and which will be an unbeliever as He deals with them in their sin.

This is a classic example of the problem between my own generally Reformed theology and anti-Calvinist theology.

Anti-Calvinists reject or twist the verses that are used by the Calvinists to support their doctrines.

Calvinists, on the other hand, believe and accept most of the verses that are used by anti-Calvinists to support their doctrines.

As for myself - I believe and use virtually all of the verses used by both sides in support of my beliefs. That often puts me in an odd place between the two. That odd place does lean a little toward the Calvinist side of things though - believing as I do in the absolute sovereignty of God in all things that happen in His creation.
 
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I do not want you to trust my opinion. I want you to check the Scriptures that I showed you and plainly read them for what they say and compare Scripture with Scripture. I am not above the Word of God. The Word of God is true despite what anyone here says. The key to understanding is in knowing God and in having a pure heart (whereby one will always want to do good no matter what).

In other words, read the passage for yourself and verify what it says. Does it say that in the last days perilous times will come? Yes. Does it talk about how these people in the last days will have certain sins in their life and yet they have a form of Godliness? Yes. So when I read this, it is very clear that this is a way of telling me how to spot the real believers from those who are not. For...

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate"
(Titus 1:16).


...

Also, when OSAS proponents tell me salvation is absolutely has nothing to do with how you live (and it is all in belief in the finished work of the cross), I just do not see that belief being pushed in the Scriptures. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 lets me know that there are those who have a FORM of Godliness but they deny the power thereof. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 also lets me know that this group of people are abiding in certain sins such as not having natural affection and being lovers of their own selves rather than of God, etc. This lets me know that one cannot live however they please or abide in any kind of sin they like (even if it was a sin they do on occasion the rest of their life by confessing it). No conscious or willful choice to sin in the future again could ever be approved of by God because He is righteous and holy. All sin must be genuinely confessed with a Godly sorrow and it must be forsaken with God's help in truth and in the Spirit. God is good; And His people are good, too.


....
 
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Thursday

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Two can play at that game. Logical problems with Catholicism:

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

"Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Revelation 19:10)

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words." (Matthew 6:7)

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth." (1 Timothy 4:1-3)


Nothing here contradicts Catholic teaching. After all, the New Testament is a Catholic book.
 
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Thursday

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There are no problems which those verses present for Calvinism that would make Calvinism's statement about unconditional election illogical. (That particular point is the one you have been focusing on as I remember it.)

These verses talk about how God deals with men's actions. These people could be either believers or unbelievers and still be dealt with the same. In that regard - God is not a respecter of persons.

These verses say absolutely nothing about God's prior considerations in choosing which person so dealt with will be a believer and which will be an unbeliever as He deals with them in their sin.

This is a classic example of the problem between my own generally Reformed theology and anti-Calvinist theology.

Anti-Calvinists reject or twist the verses that are used by the Calvinists to support their doctrines.

Calvinists, on the other hand, believe and accept most of the verses that are used by anti-Calvinists to support their doctrines.

As for myself - I believe and use virtually all of the verses used by both sides in support of my beliefs. That often puts me in an odd place between the two. That odd place does lean a little toward the Calvinist side of things though - believing as I do in the absolute sovereignty of God in all things that happen in His creation.


You are mistaken.

These verses lay out explicit CONDITIONS for salvation which involve human choices and actions.
 
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