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Logical Problems with Calvinism

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GillDouglas

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According to Calvinism (the Westminister Confession), because God had already consigned them to Hell: By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

According to Scripture, they simply hardened their hearts even after they heard the truth
. Please note carefully (Acts 7:51-54): Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Even here we see a hardening of hearts -- *and they gnashed on him with their teeth* instead of repentance. Paul had the same experience with the majority of the Jews throughout the Roman Empire. Calvinism teaches that God had already consigned them to Hell. But they consigned themselves to Hell by rejecting Christ.

How can God possibly consign the majority of Israel to Hell *Q* That is such a laughable proposition that no one with an ounce of Scripture knowledge would believe it.

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." (Romans 11:25)

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

"Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me" (Psalm 51:10)

"And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." (Ezekial 36:26)

"For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:20-24)

"But when He who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by His grace" (Galatians 1:15)

"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." (Romans 10:9-10)
 
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tulipbee

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Exactly. Who needs Christ when they can just save themselves through sinless perfectionism?
Jesus saves his people regardless what they do. God gave them into him. Every given one will be saved, permanently
 
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tulipbee

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How have I done that? I disagree.

Since God is perfectly omniscient, He already knows all things. Including the ones who will never believe.

But did that stop Jesus from saying this:

"‘I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality." Rev 2:21

It is clear from this that God still gives people time to repent, EVEN THOUGH He already knows they never will. Or that they REFUSE (NIV) to repent.
No one wants to repent. Course God knew who he didn't choose to give to Jesus to save
 
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tulipbee

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No it's not, if you believe the words of Scripture.

Sermon on Mars Hill: “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent" Acts 17:30

"all people everywhere" doesn't just refer to the 'elect'.


And the Calvinists give them an excuse when they end up in hell: they weren't chosen for heaven. Like the other sinners who were. :)
Only the saved ones are saved
 
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sdowney717

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According to Calvinism (the Westminister Confession), because God had already consigned them to Hell: By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

According to Scripture, they simply hardened their hearts even after they heard the truth
. Please note carefully (Acts 7:51-54): Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Even here we see a hardening of hearts -- *and they gnashed on him with their teeth* instead of repentance. Paul had the same experience with the majority of the Jews throughout the Roman Empire. Calvinism teaches that God had already consigned them to Hell. But they consigned themselves to Hell by rejecting Christ.

How can God possibly consign the majority of Israel to Hell *Q* That is such a laughable proposition that no one with an ounce of Scripture knowledge would believe it.
Stiff necked people will not repent will they?
They resist here God's kindness and His rebuke since they are but naturally minded people.
God extends His kindness to all, but they still do not believe.
That scripture is good evidence as is Romans 2, that unless God circumcises their hearts first, they will not believe due to their fallen state. Good evidence that unless God gives you the new heart, you will not believe is shown by many scriptures.
 
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sdowney717

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v38-40 tells us those who do not have the Father's word abiding in them, will not believe in Christ. And they are unwilling to come to Christ.
Having God's word abiding in you is required first to be enabled to come to Christ by faith.

John 5
36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
 
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EmSw

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Didn't you read my earlier answer to this same question? Here it is again:
"I'm glad to tell you who are saved. Those who have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. And only those.

lol I haven't manipulated anything.

It's those who think that salvation can be lost by a variety of ways who manipulate or at least fail to understand Scripture."

What part of this isn't clear?

People are saved, not by what they do, but by what they BELIEVE. The Bible says so.

It is a total waste of time to bring up sins or lifestyle when discussion salvation. Because Christ died for ALL sin. What part of this isn't clear?



But to further clarify this issue, there are many truths in Scripture. Truths about what sin is, truths about what Christ did for all sin, truths about who Christ died for, truth about how to be saved, and so on. So don't act as though there is only one truth.

Yes, Jesus Christ IS the Truth, as He said in John 14:6. But there are many truths about Him.

So, those believers who are liars do not have the truth in them, just as those believers who "say they have no sin" have deceived themselves and the truth is not in them. 1 Jn 1:8

Why would anyone assume that a believer in Christ has "all truths"?

If that were true, Paul was just wasting his time writing all his epistles. He wrote them to INSTRUCT believers with truth.

And how many times did Paul write "I would not have you ignorant, brothers"? 4

iow, there are stupid believers, ignorant of the truth. And yet saved. :)

Let's break this down. Those who say they know Him, but do not keep His commandments, are liars and the truth is not in them. This does not say TRUTHS; it say TRUTH!

Who is the Truth? Of course it is Jesus, so those who do not have the Truth in them, do not have Jesus in them. If you can show where anyone is saved without Jesus, feel free to shout it from the rooftops. And while you are at it, please show us how one stays saved without Jesus.

Those who say they know Him, (here's the part which rips your OSAS apart), BUT DO NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, are liars. They do NOT have the truth in them, that is, Jesus. You want to focus on truth and truths, but you need to focus on 'DO NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS'!
 
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EmSw

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Stiff necked people will not repent will they?
They resist here God's kindness and His rebuke since they are but naturally minded people.
God extends His kindness to all, but they still do not believe.
That scripture is good evidence as is Romans 2, that unless God circumcises their hearts first, they will not believe due to their fallen state. Good evidence that unless God gives you the new heart, you will not believe is shown by many scriptures.

Why not comment on 'foreordained to everlasting death'? This has nothing to do with a man during his life, the key word being 'foreordained'.
 
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EmSw

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By this you are saying that men save themselves, and that is simply not the case. It is of course those who believe that repent, but that goes without saying. It is not because of their belief that they are saved however, but it is because of God's grace.

So a man who believes Mohammed and the Koran can be saved if God's grace is present? It doesn't matter if he believes in Jesus or not, correct?
 
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GillDouglas

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So a man who believes Mohammed and the Koran can be saved if God's grace is present? It doesn't matter if he believes in Jesus or not, correct?
This truly shows your ignorance, not only with Scripture, but anything I've ever said concerning salvation. This pathetic attempt to twist words, that clearly do not represent anything I have ever stated, doesn't warrant the need for a proper response.
 
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Job8

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Good evidence that unless God gives you the new heart, you will not believe is shown by many scriptures.
If you really believe this, then every Jew should have received a new heart in order to believe the Gospel. NOT A SINGLE JEW SHOULD HAVE REJECTED CHRIST. The very fact that the majority did proves that you are seriously mistaken.

God wanted all Israel to be saved (and in the future will save all Israel, Rom 11:26), but Paul as His mouthpiece says (Rom 9:1-3): I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: In plain English Paul is saying that he would be willing to go to Hell if his Hebrew brethren would be saved.

Now please sit down and ask yourself a solemn question: "If God wanted all Israel to be saved, why did Jesus not give them all a new heart, so that all would be saved? After all He came to earth save Israel. Why did He weep over Jerusalem instead of giving every Jew a new heart as per Calvinistic notions?"
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. (Lk 19:41,42).

 
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EmSw

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This truly shows your ignorance, not only with Scripture, but anything I've ever said concerning salvation. This pathetic attempt to twist words, that clearly do not represent anything I have ever stated, doesn't warrant the need for a proper response.

You are the one who said it is not their belief which saves them. Did you not? How is that twisting?

Of course you won't respond; I've seen this attitude with others of your belief.
 
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GillDouglas

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You are the one who said it is not their belief which saves them. Did you not? How is that twisting?

Of course you won't respond; I've seen this attitude with others of your belief.
As many of my 'belief' have told you, a man does not believe in Christ unless he's been made new by the Holy Spirit. It's a matter of grace first, then belief. So your twisted words about Muhammad and the Koran make little sense from my point of 'belief'.
 
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sdowney717

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If you really believe this, then every Jew should have received a new heart in order to believe the Gospel. NOT A SINGLE JEW SHOULD HAVE REJECTED CHRIST. The very fact that the majority did proves that you are seriously mistaken.

God wanted all Israel to be saved (and in the future will save all Israel, Rom 11:26), but Paul as His mouthpiece says (Rom 9:1-3): I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: In plain English Paul is saying that he would be willing to go to Hell if his Hebrew brethren would be saved.

Now please sit down and ask yourself a solemn question: "If God wanted all Israel to be saved, why did Jesus not give them all a new heart, so that all would be saved? After all He came to earth save Israel. Why did He weep over Jerusalem instead of giving every Jew a new heart as per Calvinistic notions?"
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. (Lk 19:41,42).
But God did not want all Israel to be saved or else why would the hardening of the jews have occurred, it specifically says this.
Romans 11
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”


9 And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

AND this

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

You need to think rationally here and align your self with what God has said about these things. You do not have to answer to me but to God only.
 
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sdowney717

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Calvin's commentary on Luke 19
http://www.studylight.org/commentary/luke/19-41.html
41.And wept over it. As there was nothing which Christ more ardently desired than to execute the office which the Father had committed to him, and as he knew that the end of his calling was to gather the lost sheep of the house of Israel, (Matthew 15:24,) he wished that his coming might bring salvation to all. This was the reason why he was moved with compassion, and wept over the approaching destruction of the city of Jerusalem. For while he reflected that this was the sacred abode which God had chosen, in which the covenant of eternal salvation should dwell — the sanctuary from which salvation would go forth to the whole world, it was impossible that he should not deeply deplore its ruin. And when he saw the people, who had been adopted to the hope of eternal life, perish miserably through their ingratitude and wickedness, we need not wonder if he could not refrain from tears.

As to those who think it strange that Christ should bewail an evil which he had it in his power to remedy, this difficulty is quickly removed. For as he came down from heaven, that, clothed in human flesh, he might be the witness and minister of the salvation which comes from God, so he actually took upon him human feelings, as far as the office which he had undertaken allowed. And it is necessary that we should always give due consideration to the character which he sustains, when he speaks, or when he is employed in accomplishing the salvation of men; as in this passage, in order that he may execute faithfully his Father’s commission, he must necessarily desire that the fruit of the redemption should come to the whole body of the elect people. Since, therefore, he was given to this people as a minister for salvation, it is in accordance with the nature of his office that he should deplore its destruction. He was God, I acknowledge; but on all occasions when it was necessary that he should perform the office of teacher, his divinity rested, and was in a manner concealed, that it might not hinder what belonged to him as Mediator. By this weeping he proved not only that he loved, like a brother, those for whose sake he became man, but also that God made to flow into human nature the Spirit of fatherly love.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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If one wants to discuss with any type of credibility, one needs to have more than just the antiquated KJV. How long it was used is of NO importance or relevance.

The ONLY THING that is important is what the GREEK says. So you need an interlinear Bible that has the Greek text and a lexicon so you can look up the Greek words to learn what they actually mean. Anything less that this simply removes any credibility.

The actual Greek text is this: "I write to you in order that you sin not." The word for "sin not" is in the subjunctive mood. If your view were correct, the mood would have been indicative. The subjunctive mood refutes your view.

Yep. And I just explained what it means from the Greek.

First, Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes were the ones who transcribed the law. Hence the word "scribe." For don't you think there are modern scribes today that Jesus would want to warn us about? Does not the Bible apply for us today? In fact, this argument makes sense because if a Greek scholar of today talks about the Bible using the Greek to a class room who has no clue what the Greek says, they will have to take his word for what he says. The teacher has all the power and the students would be none the wiser. Unless of course the students just believed God's Word in their own language and they verified a word by checking the context or the surrounding verses.

Second, in Acts chapter 2, God made it possible for everyone to understand each other in their OWN language. God had no problem translating so that everyone could understand each other. Why do you believe God had changed? Does the Bible tell us that God has now only used the Hebrew (OT) and the Greek (NT) for us to know the Holy Scriptures? No. Of course not. God preserved His Word in our world language for today. For men will be held accountable to the Word of God in their own language and they will not be held accountable for learning some language that is no longer in use. For nobody today still speaks and writes Biblical Greek in the same way like in Biblical times; And we have no suriviving tutors from that time period to help us in making sure we have the correct understanding of how that language is properly used.

Why would anyone think those who reject sinless perfection think they are continually sinning. The whole point of the issue in sin is to sin less. But there is no evidence of being sinless. We are to sin less,

"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God." (1 John 3:9) (English Standard Version).

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him." (1 John 5:18) (English Standard Version).

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26-27) (English Standard Version).

"No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it." (1 Corinthians 10:13) (English Standard Version).

"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21) (English Standard Version).

"So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live" (Romans 8:12-13) (English Standard Version).

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin" (John 8:34) (English Standard Version).

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth." (Romans 1:18).

"And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23) (English Standard Version).

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11).

For God takes seriously even just one sin.

Jesus said, "But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness." (Matthew 6:23).

"...I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." (Matthew 5:28-30).

but we will never be sinless this side of eternity.

Not true.

1. He that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin. (1 Peter 4:1).

2. They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.(Galatians 5:24).

3. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil." (Ephesians 4:17-27).

4. "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:12-14).

5. "...I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one" (1 John 2:14).

....
 
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GillDouglas

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First, Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes were the ones who transcribed the law. Hence the word "scribe." For don't you think there are modern scribes today that Jesus would want to warn us about? Does not the Bible apply for us today? In fact, this argument makes sense because if a Greek scholar of today talks about the Bible using the Greek to a class room who has no clue what the Greek says, they will have to take his word for what he says. The teacher has all the power and the students would be none the wiser. Unless of course the students just believed God's Word in their own language and they verified a word by checking the context or the surrounding verses.

Second, in Acts chapter 2, God made it possible for everyone to understand each other in their OWN language. God had no problem translating so that everyone could understand each other. Why do you believe God had changed? Does the Bible tell us that God has now only used the Hebrew (OT) and the Greek (NT) for us to know the Holy Scriptures? No. Of course not. God preserved His Word in our world language for today. For men will be held accountable to the Word of God in their own language and they will not be held accountable for learning some language that is no longer in use. For nobody today still speaks and writes Biblical Greek in the same way like in Biblical times; And we have no suriviving tutors from that time period to help us in making sure we have the correct understanding of how that language is properly used.



"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God." (1 John 3:9) (English Standard Version).

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him." (1 John 5:18) (English Standard Version).

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26-27) (English Standard Version).

"No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it." (1 Corinthians 10:13) (English Standard Version).

"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21) (English Standard Version).

"So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live" (Romans 8:12-13) (English Standard Version).

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin" (John 8:34) (English Standard Version).

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth." (Romans 1:18).

"And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23) (English Standard Version).

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11).

For God takes seriously even just one sin.

Jesus said, "But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness." (Matthew 6:23).

"...I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." (Matthew 5:28-30).



Not true.

1. He that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin. (1 Peter 4:1).

2. They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.(Galatians 5:24).

3. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil." (Ephesians 4:17-27).

4. "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:12-14).

5. "...I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one" (1 John 2:14).

....
I'm sorry Jason, but you are wrong on this yet again. If our justification were through the law, being perfect ourselves, then Christ died for no purpose. (Gal. 2:21)

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." ... Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. (Gal. 3:10, 13)

The Bible teaches that our salvation depends on what Christ has accomplished for our pardon and our perfection. We accept by faith his substitution for us in two senses: in his final suffering and death, he was condemned and cursed so that we may be pardoned (see Gal. 3:13; Rom. 8:3); and in his whole life of righteousness culminating in his death, he was obedient so that we may be saved (see Heb. 5:8-9). His death crowns his atoning sufferings that propitiate God's wrath against us (see Rom. 3:24-25; 5:6-9), but it also crowns his life of perfect righteousness—God's righteousness —that is then imputed to us who believe (see 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:21-22; 4:6, 11; 5:18-19).

What God requires of us, Christ has provided. It is not our doing but His and thank God it is because we are unworthy and weak.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Where in there do you find anything about salvation? Maybe that's the crux of the issue that you are trying to have us all focus on.
The context for my comments comes from Tulipbee's post #2245 and my response in #2250.
 
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FreeGrace2

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It's certainly part of the rebirth/regeneration, if you will. But just to be clear, no man believes the good news (gospel) of Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for them and gives them eternal life until God intercedes and begins the work.
If you're suggesting that regeneration/rebirth occurs in order that one will believe, where is that found in the Bible?
 
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FreeGrace2

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No one wants to repent.
Yet, people repent all the time. Where does the Bible indicate that God is the cause of one's repentance?

Course God knew who he didn't choose to give to Jesus to save
Of course. And we know who He chose to give to Jesus: John 6:45 - “It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
 
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