Logical Problems with Calvinism

[sdowney717]

That Ezekiel 11 is actually identical to Hebrews 8 which describes how the New Covenant works.
verse 10, 11, 12 define election, God choosing who to save, to whom He has mercy, that those God saves will be His people responding to Christ's call of them, they shall have an anointing to know th truth and that their salvation is eternal.
All highly rejected doctrines on this forum by not just a few posters.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:

a. I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts;
b. and I will be their God,
c. and they shall be My people.

d. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
e. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are avoiding.

No. It is not avoidance if it erases your false notions of what you believe.


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[Bible Highlighter]

That Ezekiel 11 is actually identical to Hebrews 8 which describes how the New Covenant works.
verse 10, 11, 12 define election, God choosing who to save, to whom He has mercy, that those God saves will be His people responding to Christ's call of them and that their salvation is eternal.
All highly rejected doctrines on this forum by not just a few posters.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

No. Salvation is a free gift for all people. If it wasn't then preaching grace and forgiveness to people would be a flat out lie for some.


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[Hammster]

No. It is not avoidance if it erases your false notions of what you believe.


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I'm asking what you believe. Do you believe that a heart of stone wants to do good?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes to both.

Explain in detail.


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[Marvin Knox]

Then you are being inconsistent in your belief. If God chooses some to believe and others to not believe then why stop there? Why would God allow man to do his own thing against His own will? ...

I am not inconsistent in my belief. Nor are most Calvinists inconsistent. Some are however.

I have to stop exactly where the scriptures stop.

Depending, of course, on how you mean "against His own will" - it is allowed in order that He can display the knowledge of good and evil in the ages to come based on the lessons acquired in this particular age.

 

[Hammster]

Explain in detail.


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God has set His love on some. Because of that, He gives some a new heart (which has been explained to you). With the new heart, a man freely believes. He must give a new heart because with the heart of stone, he will stay in his wicked ways.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm asking what you believe. Do you believe that a heart of stone wants to do good?

God has the capacity to break the stubbornness of a man's stony heart if God recognizes that they are willing to change. Paul was willing to change after God snapped him out of it by visiting him in a vision. But Paul said he did not disobey that heavenly vision. Meaning, it rested on Paul and what he decided to do about the vision he had.


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[Bible Highlighter]

God has set His love on some. Because of that, He gives some a new heart (which has been explained to you). With the new heart, a man freely believes. He must give a new heart because with the heart of stone, he will stay in his wicked ways.

But how does man get this new heart? Does it rest upon God zapping man into the Kingdom? Or does it rely upon man to decide if He wants to follow God or not?


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[sdowney717]

God has the capacity to break the stubbornness of a man's stony heart if God recognizes that they are willing to change. Paul was willing to change after God snapped him out of it by visiting him in a vision. But Paul said he did not disobey that heavenly vision. Meaning, it rested on Paul and what he decided to do about the vision he had.


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Paul was not disobedient because he desired Christ since he had been born of God.
Prior to that he hated Christ.

 

[Hammster]

God has the capacity to break the stubbornness of a man's stony heart if God recognizes that they are willing to change. Paul was willing to change after God snapped him out of it by visiting him in a vision. But Paul said he did not disobey that heavenly vision. Meaning, it rested on Paul and what he decided to do about the vision he had.


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Is my question that difficult to answer? Do you believe that a man with a heart of stone wants to please God?

 

[Hammster]

But how does man get this new heart? Does it rest upon God zapping man into the Kingdom? Or does it rely upon man to decide if He wants to follow God or not?


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What does Ezekiel 11 say? That's a rhetorical question because you know what it says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is my question that difficult to answer? Do you believe that a man with a heart of stone wants to please God?

And the Bible must be read in context to give you the answer as to WHY a person has a stony heart (Which would then answer your question).

"In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: for this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them" (Matthew 13:14-15).

For the world today has no moral compass or consience anymore today. Why is this the case?

"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the Life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness" (Ephesians 4:18-19).


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[sdowney717]

And the Bible must be read in context to give you the answer as to WHY a person has a stony heart (Which would then answer your question).

"In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: for this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them" (Matthew 13:14-15).

For the world today has no moral compass or consience anymore today. Why is this the case?

"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the Life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness" (Ephesians 4:18-19).


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"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the Life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness" (Ephesians 4:18-19).

Pretty much sums up that old stony evil heart of unbelief. Such a one can not believe in Christ and will not come to the light because their deeds are evil.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What does Ezekiel 11 say? That's a rhetorical question because you know what it says.

The Bibe cannot be understood by looking at just one chapter. It has to be read as a whole. But I am not sure that my discussing Ezekiel 11 with you is going to help because you have already made up your mind about it.


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[Bible Highlighter]

"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the Life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness" (Ephesians 4:18-19).

Pretty much sums up that old stony evil heart of unbelief. Such a one can not believe in Christ and will not come to the light because their deeds are evil.

You can't see it.

The reason why their understanding is darknened is because of the IGNORANCE that is WITHIN THEM. It is the BLINDNESS of their OWN HEART. A choice to be blind. Matthew 13 says THEY have CLOSED their eyes. Not God. Meaning, man initially CLOSED his eyes. God then sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie because of the choice to harden their own heart. Even the Scriptures say Pharoah hardened his own heart (Which then led to God giving the Pharoah even more of what he had already started).


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[sdowney717]

You can't see it.

The reason why their understanding is darknened is because of the IGNORANCE that is WITHIN THEM. It is the BLINDNESS of their OWN HEART. A choice to be blind. Matthew 13 says THEY have CLOSED their eyes. Not God. Meaning, man initially CLOSED his eyes. God then sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie because of the hardness of their own heart. Even the Scriptures say Pharoah hardened his own heart.


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It is somewhat funny, but you use of this scripture points out the heart is entirely and horribly deceitful and wicked, Such a heart needs a regeneration to be drawn to Christ.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I just don't get why you have to acknowledge something that's totally pointless to the debate, and how to "acknowledge" doesn't beg the question by assuming my argument is illogical without proving definitively that it is given that my response clarifies my original contention you've named as illogical.

Again – you are the one who challenged everyone to find fault with your logic and prove that your logic did not show that Calvinism is illogical. You even purposefully laid it out in bullet points so that we could go through your logic point by point and told us why you were doing it.

I simply took you up on what you asked us to do.

It was very easy to do. I did it by simply addressing your first 3 bullet points.

You don’t have to acknowledge your mistakes if you don’t want to – of course. You can analyze yourself to find out why your ego is too fragile to do that.

I’ll simply ignore the mistakes you made in the OP and address the general problems you mention - if you want it that way. I’m good with that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"...their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them" (Matthew 13:14-15).

Information understood from the above passage.

#1. They have closed their eyes.
#2. Unless they should see with their eyes.
#3. Unless they should hear with their ears
#4. Unless they should understand with their heart
#5. So as to be converted and healed by God.


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[sdowney717]

"...their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them" (Matthew 13:14-15).

Information understood from the above passage.

#1. They have closed their eyes.
#2. Unless they should see with their eyes.
#3. Unless they should hear with their ears
#4. Unless they should understand with their heart
#5. So as to be converted and healed by God.


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Well, they will not understand unless God can teach them!
And he cant teach them if they hate Christ and are slaves of sin and Satan.