Logical Problems with Calvinism

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you think Jesus adores His Father?

Yes, but not in the sense of worshiping Him as the supreme being of the Universe.

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[Hammster]

Yes, but not in the sense of worshiping Him as the supreme being of the Universe.

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Okay. But He adores Him. That's what worship is.

 

[Hammster]

Doesn't change the Word that says we are not to claim we are of this guy or that guy. The teachings from Calvin is why it is called Calvinism.


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And I don't claim to be of Calvin. Just because you want to make it something it's not, doesn't make it so.

And it's called Calvinism because of the opponents of John Calvin. Just so you know.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I can see where you'd think that. And it's possible. But that's not a problem with Calvinimsm. That's a problem with the human heart. I could say that your view leads one to boasting because you believe it's your actions and deeds that keep you in God's grace. If you believe you can sin your way out of salvation, then there must be something that you do to keep yourself saved. I doubt you look at it that way. So give us that same benefit.

I will not give you the same benefit on your behalf because that is not what I believe. I believe that when a person submits to God, the Lord then does the good work within them. I believe the Lord gets all the glory and not man.

Okay. But He adores Him. That's what worship is.

No, I do not worship anyone but God. Yes, the word "worship" has been muddied according to our modern culture. But worship is something you give exclusively to God in the Bible. It is giving special adoration and recognition to the Creator of the Universe.


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[Bible Highlighter]

And I don't claim to be of Calvin.

If you do not say, "I am not claiming to be Calvinist yet I agree with some of it's teachings" then you are leading others to think you are calling yourself a Calvinist (Whether you want that to happen or not).

Just because you want to make it something it's not, doesn't make it so.

And it's called Calvinism because of the opponents of John Calvin. Just so you know.

They call themselves Calvinists because they follow the teachings of John Calvin. They may not follow all of them, but they follow the core of his teachings. They quote the man as if he is some kind of huge saint when they should rather quote the Bible and look to God instead.


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[Hammster]

I will not give you the same benefit because that is not what I believe. I believe that when a person submits to God, the Lord then does the good work within them.



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So do I. So stop misrepresenting what Calvinists believe.

Here's an idea. Why not go to something like the Canons of Dort and find something ther that you disagree with. Post it and refute it. It will prevent you from making straw man arguments.

 

[Hammster]

If you do not say, "I am not claiming to be Calvinist yet I agree with some of it's teachings" then you are leading others to think you are calling yourself a Calvinist (Whether you want that to happen or not).



They call themselves Calvinists because they follow the teachings of John Calvin. They may not follow all of them, but they follow the core of his teachings. They quote the man as if he is some kind of huge saint when they should rather quote the Bible and look to God instead.


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This coming from the man who linked to an article to answer a question.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So do I. So stop misrepresenting what Calvinists believe.

Where did I do so? There are many degrees of Calvinism.

Here's an idea. Why not go to something like the Canons of Dort and find something ther that you disagree with. Post it and refute it. It will prevent you from making straw man arguments.

I don't care to. I do not get my teachings from man made history or documents. I get my teaching from the Word of God by the Spirit.


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[Hammster]

No, I do not worship anyone but God. Yes, the word "worship" has been muddied according to our modern culture. But worship is something you give exclusively to God in the Bible. It is giving special adoration and recognition to the Creator of the Universe.

And Jesus exclusively adores and honors and exalts His Father.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This coming from the man who linked to an article to answer a question.

And you have never provided a link before to help someone? Okay. Sometimes I find that someone else can say it better than you can. There is no shame in admitting others may have more knowledge on a particular verse than you.


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[Hammster]

Where did I do so? There are many degrees of Calvinism.



I don't care to. I do not get my teachings from man made history or documents. I get my teaching from the Word of God by the Spirit.


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I didn't say to go there to learn. I said go there so you can see what Calvinists believe and why, find something you disagree with, post it and refute it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And Jesus exclusively adores and honors and exalts His Father.

You can't just change the word "worship" in the Bible so as to fit your own Theology. It doesn't work like that.

Try looking at all the uses of the word "worship" in the BIble here:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=worship&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

And see if any of the verses (in the keyword search at the following site) talk about "worship" that is not involving God.


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[Hammster]

And you have never provided a link before to help someone? Okay. Sometimes I find that someone else can say it better than you can. There is no shame in admitting others may have more knowledge on a particular verse than you.


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It doesn't matter if I've provided a link (which I've done twice in eight years). You are claiming that we shouldn't listen to men, yet that's exactly what you did. You listened to a man, agreed with his teaching, and posted it as a response. So if I agree with something Calvin said and posted it as a response, how would that be different?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn't say to go there to learn. I said go there so you can see what Calvinists believe and why, find something you disagree with, post it and refute it.

I am saying I do not care what man writes. So I have no interest in refuting it. I care what the Word of God says because it is by the Word by which we will be held accountable to. So bring up the Word of God by which you think supports your beliefs.


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[Hammster]

You can't just change the word "worship" in the Bible so as to fit your own Theology. It doesn't work like that.

Try looking at all the uses of the word "worship" in the BIble here:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=worship&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

And see if any of the verses (in the keyword search at the following site) talk about "worship" that is not involving God.


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Um...the Father is God. So I don't know what point you are making. And I didn't redefine worship.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It doesn't matter if I've provided a link (which I've done twice in eight years). You are claiming that we shouldn't listen to men, yet that's exactly what you did. You listened to a man, agreed with his teaching, and posted it as a response. So if I agree with something Calvin said and posted it as a response, how would that be different?

Because you are defending a position that is based off of a religion named after a man. Therein lies the difference. Oh, and the fact that you did post links totally disqualifies. It doesn't matter how often you do so. But there should be no shame in posting a link to people. Information or the truth does not change if I put it forth, or if someone else says it.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Um...the Father is God. So I don't know what point you are making. And I didn't redefine worship.

Yes you are redefining worship. You are saying it is simply adoration and it is not that it all. I can adore my fiance, but that is not the same as me worshiping the Creator of the Universe.


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[Hammster]

I am saying I do not care what man writes. So I have no interest in refuting it. I care what the Word of God says because it is by the Word by which we will be held accountable to. So bring up the Word of God by which you think supports your beliefs.


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You somehow got the idea that Calvinists think we are special. You would never make that claim if you knew what was taught. I can help you with that, if you'd like. Or you can continue with the straw men.

 

[Hammster]

Because you are defending a position that is based off of a religion named after a man. Therein lies the difference. Oh, and the fact that you did post links totally disqualifies. It doesn't matter how often you do so. But there should be no shame in posting a link to people. Information or the truth does not change if I put it forth, or if someone else says it.


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Then your issue isn't that we allegedly follow men. We just don't follow the ones you approve of. That's a horse of a different color.

 

[Hammster]

Yes you are redefining worship. You are saying it is simply adoration and it is not that it all. I can adore my fiance, but that is not the same as me worshiping the Creator of the Universe.


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So what is the proper definition?