Just pray for them.Hello Hammster.
Can we burn the Pelagians now?
Yes I understand what Calvinism teaches.And yes I am a convinced Calvinist.But we do not deny free-will.Because the nature chooses what it desires.Like I said before,nobody is forcing or coercing the sinners to sin,correct?So you believe you have free will to choose either God or Satan as a sinner? Then you are not a Calvinist. Calvinists on some level deny that man cannot come to God without some kind of regeneration. That man is depraved and unable to do anything to seek God without a change of heart. That is Calvinism. If that is not what you think Calvinism is, then please explain to me where man's free will choice does not play a part in coming to the Lord in some way.
This is a fine outline to what you believe,but now show me in Scripture.And I have a question for you.So sinners can choose God apart from any Grace from God? The difference on the Calvinism side,is that we do not deny free-will.We believe that the sinner's will is in bondage to what they desire,crave,lust,pleasure for.There is a difference.Please take note that I believe our nature before the cross is sinful due to Adam's transgression, but I do not believe that man is completely depraved and cannot choose Jesus Christ, though. I believe God has left a person's free will intact so as to choose which master they want to serve (i.e. they have enough good in them to "choose God"). But man cannot do any good or righteousness beyond choosing who His master is. When it comes to having a new nature and doing that which is truly good, that is all the Lord's doing. For it is God that changes us spiritually when we submit to Him of our own free will; And it is Christ (God) that does the good work thru us. But a believer must continually CHOOSE Jesus every day, though. Their free will is still intact after they accept Jesus Christ. They still have to endure in their faith to the End. Their new nature does not over ride their intial decision in which master they want to serve.
I see that you must have skimmed over those passages in Ephesians 2.This passage in Ephesians is talking about initial salvation. It is telling us how salvation is a free gift and it can be received right here and right now by believing Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. It can also involve the Sinner's Prayer, as well (See Parable of the Tax Collector, and the confessing of sins at John's baptism in Mark 1:4-5). In other words, the believer does not have to jump thru a bunch of hoops and do a bunch of man directed works in order to initially receive God's grace and forgiveness. This gift can be received for free by God by believing or by faith. This gift is a person named Jesus Christ who is the source of their eternal life. From there it is a walk and a relationship with Jesus Christ (Whereby Jesus does the GOOD work in them). Hence, why verse 10 says we are created IN Christ Jesus for GOOD works (i.e. God directed works and not man directed works).
This passage is not saying that God is taking away your choice in some way in choosing Him.
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Stop making false accusations - we have provided scripture. But quite frankly I'm still waiting for you to tell me how mercy and compassion are included in and part of salvation yet Romans 9:14-18 is not talking about salvation.When will someone from the reformed side PLEASE provide the Biblical teaching that God chooses who will believe???
I cannot believe what isn't taught in Scripture. So if God does choose who will believe, where is that taught?
Please note that I haven't asked for "which verse". I just want to know where it's taught.
And, to address the "single verse" challenge, if a claim is biblically true, there WILL BE clear statements in Scripture to that effect.
Paul certainly doesn't think God chooses who will believe. But Paul certainly KNOWS that God chooses to save those who believe. He actually said so in 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
That is a clear verse about who God chooses to save; believers.
So, where in Scripture is the idea that God chooses who will believe. Since there isn't any verse that plainly makes that claim.
I'm not sure why you think my statements are rude. I will start using smilies.Would you please stop making a bad name of Calvinism by being so unaccountably rude? You know that my responses to Marvin were solely because he started things. I have no disrespect toward Calvinists.
That said, although I can make an argument based on scripture, you seem to be indicating the standard by which God chooses things. I don't know that; I don't even know how a microwave works, so I'm sure I can't make any points on how God acts in specific situations. Scripture, other than making general statements about God being love, offering salvation to all, etc. I also follow Jason's point that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God -- but that also is both a general statement as well as a pretty vague one (what does it mean to hear? What does it mean to say it comes by the word of God?).
Did you read the quote in my signature line?Your still talking in fuzzy terms for me. Please do not take offense, but it seems like you do not want to obviously be clear in explaining in what you believe. Is this true?
Anyways, let me reword it for you. Do you believe God forces or makes some people to believe while God makes or forces others to not believe? Do you believe man in no way shape or form is able to choose God in any way? Do you believe man's free will only can make certain choices like making dinner or not making dinner but that man is not capable of choosing God, though? Do you believe God zaps people into the Kingdom? If so, then how does He choose? Does He see something good in them? Or does God like make some people to be good and make some people to be bad? Who is responsible for man's denial in not wanting to be with God? Man or God? If you say God then God is to blame for man's denial of God. But if you say man, then man is ultimately held responsible for his choice in rejecting God in this life (Which means man is going to be held accountable for accepting or rejecting Christ in this life).
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He said that faith is from within, and it can really be faith if God helps. That's pretty Pelagian.Sounds more like prevenient grace to me - not that there is much difference.
I'm not sure why you think my statements are rude. I will start using smilies.
I believe that faith comes by hearing. But I don't believe that faith comes by getting more information, or by just deciding to believe something that I didn't believe yesterday. I believe faith comes because God does a work in us. I believe new creatures believe, but not that faith makes us new creatures.
So back to the questions.Sorry for misreading you.
I think the work God does in us is precisely faith,except we need to fulfill this work which is entirely outside of our credit for having by working out this faith. Or else the faith God freely and gracefully implants is dead because we in our sin have killed it.
How does your question relate in any way to my statement? I'm not talking about "how one comes to believe its available".How does one come to believe it's available?
No one has any excuse for not recognizing that God exists, created the universe and should be thankful to Him. Rom 1:19,20 says so. And God made His own existence clear to everyone. Rom 1:19,20 says so.Before someone seeks it, don't they have to believe it exists?
I didn't say it was either an entity or a commodity. I said it is a noun, meaning the "body of knowledge that is believed". In the case of Scripture, "faith" is what the Bible teaches, and what we believe.Actually, that's illogical. If Faith is an entity or commodity, that says nothing about who may obtain it, achieve it, or do anything else with it.
Because "faith" is what one understands. I think your statement is confused.If one understands, then why is faith required?
It's also significant that not all who are called are chosen.I've always thought it's significant that this verse doesn't read "Everyone is called, but few are chosen."
No, faith is what God says. Which is what we are to believe.So faith comes by believing what God says?
No, lying would be to say that Christ didn't die for those who haven't believed.If I say that Christ died for those who will believe, am I lying?
Can anyone prove that believing the gospel is a "spiritual belief" as distinct from believing anything else? When I say 'prove', I mean from Scripture, of course.A natural belief? So you admit to being a Pelagian?
I'll let Scripture speak for itself regarding mercy and compassion.Stop making false accusations - we have provided scripture. But quite frankly I'm still waiting for you to tell me how mercy and compassion are included in and part of salvation yet Romans 9:14-18 is not talking about salvation.
I believe Romans 10:17 is pretty precise in what it is saying. What does it mean to hear the Word of God? It means to believe God's Word. For both the verse before and after Romans 10:17 is talking about the gospel. The gospel comes by hearing the Word of God. So we receive our faith by hearing it. The believer and not the unbeliever (of course). To hear the Word of God so as to have faith means one acts upon the gospel by believing that Jesus is our Savior and calling upon Him so as to save us. In the Parable of the Sower, we learn that those who received the seed of the Word into their hearts with joy (are the ones who believed). Granted, some only believed for a time (But this is because they had no root in God's Word). In other words, they did not continue to trust in the words of Jesus deep within their heart when they were tested (And one fell away due to persecution and another fell away due to the riches and the cares of this life).Would you please stop making a bad name of Calvinism by being so unaccountably rude? You know that my responses to Marvin were solely because he started things. I have no disrespect toward Calvinists.
That said, although I can make an argument based on scripture, you seem to be indicating the standard by which God chooses things. I don't know that; I don't even know how a microwave works, so I'm sure I can't make any points on how God acts in specific situations. Scripture, other than making general statements about God being love, offering salvation to all, etc. I also follow Jason's point that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God -- but that also is both a general statement as well as a pretty vague one (what does it mean to hear? What does it mean to say it comes by the word of God?).
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